Still hanging on ... just

[Oluwa]

Thanks Cadet. You guys are so amazing taking all your time to respond to everyone. Just the few days I have been in these forums has made an immeasurable difference to my understanding of my sitch.

I have only this single thread at the moment, but I suspect Sandi is responding to many different threads and it must be hard to keep track.

[Oluwa]

No real contact with S for most of the day. She sent me a few emails, largely about the kids stuff. She also sent me an email about her University course she wants to start in February. Normally I would quickly reply to support her, but this time I left it and didn't send any emails to her today. It sounds very pathetic, but I felt quite empowered not to respond, but still slightly worried that it would upset her.

She had a Uni information night and got back in at 7:30pm. I was out doing more pool stuff and when I came back in we didnt really talk. Our eldest, S17, finally got a job offer today (part time) and he said that mum had said she would phone the company to ask some more questions. I said to him, so she could hear, what does she want to do, do the job for you! She came out and we dicussed about the hours he might be able to do. I asked her why would you want to call them, and she said to find out about the hours, and then she quickly said anyway he is going to call now.

This is one thing we disagree on, at 17 my son should be doing all the chasing for work etc, whereas she still thinks I should be phoning for him etc. Hows he going to learn if he doesnt do it himself. So these will sound so petty, but these are very small areas of change I am making in terms of voicing my opinion and disagreeing with her view.

She went to settle down to watch TV and I stayed out of the room for a while. When I did go in, I went to get my toothbrush etc to sleep in home theatre again. She spoke first and asked who made the fruit smoothy. As I was leaving the room, I got weak and asked her about her Uni stuff, i.e the email she sent earlier. It was a quick conversation and I left, I didn't ask how her Uni meeting went this evening.

Im probably going to get flamed here, but is not asking about her day part of detachment. Like am I doing the right thing in showing less interest in what she is doing. I'm a long way from detaching fully, because even going into the MBR, is my temperature checking, as much as I would like to deny it.

I have been reading alot of threads this evening, and many do mirror alot of my own experiences. I biggest regret is not looking further into these forums when I first came across them, which was 5 months ago. I read a few items and then moved onto some other website book.

Well I am here now and should get the DR book pretty soon. I honestly feel that this is the best thing I can do at the moment, my lack of being a man and fear of her hurting me has been holding me back for so long.

[Oluwa]

So slept in Home Theatre as usual as described in previous post.

She text me this morning about a few kids things. I did't respond immediately, then she sent another one. Once I did respond she sent this "We need to talk when you get back from training tonight".

The thing is she will have noticed I have been less involved with her, so I am thinking its going to be a R talk, and probably not a good one.

I feel I have being doing ok detaching, until i get this text message and all the stupid fear comes back. I text back "What about?". No reply.

If she is to say she want's to separate again or she just asks that she has noticed I am not spending as much time with her and why am I doing that, how do I answer, I haven't got the DR book yet, and i want to keep the detachment going, but I don't know if I agree with a separation or not.

Of course, I haven't had the talk yet, so I have no idea what she is going to say. But my mind is racing....

[Oluwa]

So turns out the talk was about S12, not our R.
Still the same issue of S12 being on phone too much, he ran out of data and asked to use his mums phone on a car journey yesterday. He installed instagram chat on it, and we have seen all the stuff he has been posting. Lots of swearing etc, too be honest, normal adolescent boys stuff. But he did post some pictures to friends which were not really appropriate.

So wife and I talked about it first. She said that we should bring him into the bedroom to tell him, and I said lets agree on what we want to say first and what the consequences should be. She agreed and we talked a bit more. This is good for me, to take the lead on how to handle it. Just before we called him in, I said, can you try not to get too angry so we can discuss it with him properly. Straight away she starts saying that I should look at myself before accusing someone of getting angry all the time. This is her fantasy, as although I did used to get angry, I haven't being doing that for a few years now. Anyway, I said I'm not blaming you I'm just saying that alot of the time you will get too emotional and just say "just get out of my sight" to S12 before we discuss it with him enough.

She did calm down and then I called S12 in. We had a long chat, where I did most of the talking to S12. My wife let me take the lead on the talk, which I have done quite a few times now. She would say something once in a while, but it was largely me. This again is important to me (and maybe her), that I am disciplining our children as well.

Admittedly our approaches are beginning to differ, as she just thinks of punishment straight away, whereas I think of discussing the why of the behaviour with the child first. I think at 12 years old they are getting old enough to reason with, but who knows, I'm not saying either approach is right.

I added an app on his phone to block all social media sites for now and that's is where it stands for now.

My wife and I talked a bit more, and she said that there is no hope for this child, he just can't change his behaviour and there's nothing we can do. I said there must be other approaches we can try to help him understand. She said, "Whats your great idea for a new approach then ?". I said, "Im not sure, just that we havent tried everything and i'm not willing to give up on my child yet".

She said, "I didn't say I'm giving up on my child. Honestly Rob, everyday I am with you I can't stand you, please someone kill me now!".

I said, "why would you say that? I'm not accusing you of giving up, but you did say that there is nothing we can do". She made fun of me trying to explain what I had said (which she does alot), but I finished what I was saying and left the room.

I had to go back in a bit later to get her to sign something for mortgage and she was ok again.

Summary of Today

1. Can't believe how much anxiety I had when I got the intial text, really need to work on this, not detached at all when anything big comes up!
2. Was happy in general with the way I handled this evening. Anything I say that she might think is something negative on her, she will go in for the kill. This has been her behaviour for a very long time, used to use the D word as I said before when she didn't like the argument.
3. I should probably practice how I phrase statements, as I wasn't trying to accuse her of things, but the reality of her losing her temper (control) when kids upset her is there. If we are to ever heal and stay together she has to accept some of her behaviour is not acceptable.
4. The comment of I can't stand being with you, kill me now. It seems so over the top over a misunderstanding. Once she says these words and calms down, she acts like nothing happened, she never offers an apology, but then I never ask for one either.

[TiredTN]

I agree the first to move out is always at a disadvantage during a divorce as they are seen as the one abandoning the marriage.

[MoveFrwd]

Straight away she starts saying that I should look at myself before accusing someone of getting angry all the time. This is her fantasy, as although I did used to get angry, I haven't being doing that for a few years now.

Not saying whos right or wrong here. But I wonder if you arent as "cured" as you say. Consider her comments from her perspective or your children's perspective. What might be perceived as anger even if you dont feel angry?

My wife and I talked a bit more, and she said that there is no hope for this child, he just can't change his behaviour and there's nothing we can do. I said there must be other approaches we can try to help him understand. She said, "Whats your great idea for a new approach then ?". I said, "Im not sure, just that we havent tried everything and i'm not willing to give up on my child yet".

Again not saying that what you did was wrong. But it sounds like you are looking for her to come up with something. I think a better response would have been "Im not sure, but Id like to do some research about it." or something to that effect. Otherwise, it sounds like you just want her to change or fix something.

[TiredTN]

Oluwa - Wow - your experience seems very similar to my own. It's kind of cathartic to read your entries. I started posting on here several months ago and though I got a DB phone coach and one of Michele's books I did not get the DB book itself. I just emailed a local bookshop to order it for me and I'll go pick it up soon.

Your issues/struggles with detachment and what exactly that looks like when still living with a chaotic spouse seem to parallel my own. I am hoping the book and the coaching help resolve the situation.

[sandi2]

Not too bad, considering you are dealing with a 12 yr old boy being inappropriate.....and his mother, who is inappropriate!

It's very tough to not to let emotions come into play when trying to parent together, when she's angry and you are stressed. Has she always said such things about her child, or is that the way she talks since BD? Have you considered suggesting that you would be glad to deal with these young male issues with S12, if it will relieve her of the stress? IDK that it would work any better, and she might just blame you for anything S12 doesn't do correctly. However, she'll more than likely be angry, anyway, b/c that's part of her WW mindset. Just a thought.

While things are bad around home, I want to encourage you to watch yourself when you have the urge to "explain" things to her (especially when it has to do with her) and when you know she's already stewing about something. This sounds a bit contrary to all the books written on the importance of clear communication between spouses. However, with a WW, you will be met will a bad attitude and can be shifted into a higher intensity that gets into R talk real fast. A lot of H's have a tendency to try and over explain things, especially when they are use to having a mean W who will give him the devil.

Learn to give yourself pep talks into the mirror, before facing your weakest part of the day/night, and especially whenever she wants to talk about a matter. You can do this!

What is your source of energy and inspiration? Music, long walks, motivational tapes, etc? Not only do you need to guard your physical health, but your emotional/mental/spiritual health, as well.

[MoveFrwd]

Learn to give yourself pep talks into the mirror, before facing your weakest part of the day/night, and especially whenever she wants to talk about a matter. You can do this!

The TED talk by Amy Cuddy would be tremendously helpful!

[Oluwa]

Thanks TiredTN. Yes I think I do agree with this as well. As I think about it more, I think my IC is suggesting it because is has been clear so far that I haven't been able to detach pretty much as all!

So he suggested in house separation, formal where we tell the kids) and I didn't end up doing that, so next session he recommended moving out for 3 months, to let her feel the lack of my presence. Because despite what she sometimes thinks, I provide her alot of emotional support.