Focus on Me and the Boys 9

[sandi2]

I think you have proven you can handle the kids without your W. I think you love your boys and want what is best for them. I also feel that you are so weary........and down deep in your heart, you want your W to have the kids full time and you work. That is as close to the way life was before all this mess started. It is exhausting to hold down a job, keep up a home, and raise a big family alone. I get it.

I think you are so tired........and see no relief in the near future, that you are willing to give her the kids and every penny she wants, just to get out. You want out of this situation. You want to be free of it, focus on work and GAL, and you'll still see the boys......but it won't be the pressure you feel right now.

I won't say anymore about the move........or at least, I will try not to say anything else.

[Mach1]

mvgfwd,

I am just trying to get STBX's perspective. Not making a grand gesture. It is clear she does not respect me, if she did, she would have no problem showing me receipts for all the money. So we will keep the agreement as is.

Jim....

I don't think that you are trying to see her perspective as much as you are trying to still try to "fix" the relationship...

Still so much of you doing what she wants, she needs, she asks for...

You are STILL letting her control YOUR life...

Until you can find the strength to stand up, and set the bar, you are always gonna limbo under the bar...

None of this, should be about what the hell she wants right now...

She is f%#%ing another dude, and you are still letting her tell you what you should be doing...

Stop looking and asking her, how and what YOU need to do, to lead yourself...

And she is correct with her above exchange with you, you say one thing, then do something else.

You are all over the map Jim.

When does it stop ???

Stand up for you....

You don't want to be here, 5 years from now, talking about how you F'ed up, and would have done this differently, and being the victim once again...

Stop the cycle...

Lead your family...

Show the boys what a strong, confidant man looks like through adversity...




So I ask you, yet again...

What do YOU want Jim...

Nothing about her, nothing about the kids..

Nothing about what is easier, cause well....F#%$ easy...

What is right for Jim...


???

[bigybiz]

JK:

There is lots of good advice and support here. From the financial perspective alone, I can see where you are coming from. The workload of 5 young children is massive. I certainly understand giving that money to their mother as opposed to a team of babysitters, day care, etc, makes sense.

In my area, many people choose to spend their money "internally" as opposed to spending it on day care. Families, buy larger homes and share with Grandparents, some build in-law suites, some sponsor a relative to move to Canada from overseas. In the end, lots of money get's spent so the children are with people that share the identical values, culture, etc of the parents.

Day care and babysitters have many logistical issues too i.e pick up times, policies re: sick children, splitting children of different ages up, etc.

Daycare has many positives too. To this day I still have friends from the daycare centre D20 went to.

You are not thinking that your $ is a bribe to keep W in your life - we know that. You maybe surrendering a little - but life is about giving and taking.

You are taking a huge step i.e. moving, transfer, etc to what appears to be in pursuit of W. Only you know if that is the case. She will definitely think this is the case.

Take precautions, view this as a exchange of services for $ and a career opportunity for you. With the huge benefit of your children being closer to their mother and her family.

So save some $ for you, build a new support network, continue with your GAL and you and your boys will be fine.

[PsySara]

I dunno, I see Jim doing this so his children won't be carted back and forth for ten hour drives constantly. I don't really "feel" a pursuing vibe in his move, rather more of a logistical adjustment. Also her parents may be able to help with the children, I always say you can never have too many people around to love on your kids.
I only have 3 children (5, 3, 8 month baby) and I am hanging on by a thread. I would probably be admitted for psych eval if you made that number bigger.

One boundary I would put in place is no longer discussing finances with WW though. If she starts the convo let her know it's no longer up for discussion and the L's can hash it out. She only has as much power as you give her, that text was giving her IMMENSE amount of space in your head. You only pay what the courts require, full stop. If she starts to pitch a fit, "I'm sorry you feel this way. For simplicity sake I will let the lawyers hash this out." And done.

[J5K]

OK so some positive things over the last few days.

Boss and HR met, they are working on my transition to get to Toronto ASAP. I may even be able to get a place where the company pays for it which will save me a huge amount of money.

Based on my position and others in my group, it is more cost effective for the company to rent a condo/apartment long term than put us up in hotels.

STBX calls and speaks with the boys last night. She did not sound like she was in a good mood. The two youngest did not want to speak with her. When I took the phone and said that the little ones did not want to talk she became upset and told me I need to put them on the phone. I validated and said I can understand that this is frustrating when the kids do not want to speak with you. She said, I am tired of hearing I understand from you. I just said OK.

She then asked if I spoke to my L about change of domicile and I updated STBX and said yes, it will have to happen after judgment is completed.

STBX then asks, is this a good move for you, you always make uninformed decisions. I said, I do not know. I do know that I do not want the boys driving back and forth once a month and that I will save on daycare. Above and beyond that I cannot predict the future. She did not have a reaction or comment to this.

I then politely said that I needed to hang up as I had things to take care of and said goodbye.

I spoke to DB coach today. Gave him the update of what happened since Friday when I told STBX I was done with her. DB coach said I made some progress with some of my statements by expressing myself with "I" statements. I feel like my heart is broken. I feel that the boys hearts are broken also. He said these were all good things to express.

He asked what made STBX become more soft spoken on Sunday and wanted to support me with watching the boys in the afternoons when I move to Toronto. I said I did not know other than she understand that the boys and I are hurt based on the statements I made above.

He stated I need to continue to be compassionate and detach lovingly in order to rebuild the relationship whether it is for co-parenting or whatever else may come of it.

This is very hard to do. I feel like I have to eliminate any jealousy I have, swallow my pride, kill my ego and have no emotion whatsoever in order to continue to understand her.

Las thing DB coach said is I need to collaborate with STBX. Take things slow and think before I speak in order to ensure I am clearly understanding her and ensure that what I tell her comes out appropriately and not as a criticism or negative. I need to use we statements. For example when STBX says she needs $2900 per month in child support I need to say "I want to be fiscally responsible and we need to understand the budget in order to come to an agreement".

Tomorrow morning STBX has to go in front of the judge and answer yes no questions and in no more than 21 days the D will be official.

I do not want to be punitive to STBX or continue the push pull that we have been doing or she perceives I am doing.

The journey to just get to a better co-parenting relationship has just begun.

[DonH]

"STBX then asks, is this a good move for you, you always make uninformed decisions." My jaw dropped open - even STBX sees this.

[J5K]

STBX did ask if I ran the numbers and I told her that I did and will be able to manage.

STBX continues to change the story every time we have a discussion. There is no consistency in her words or statements other than her own selfishness.

I gave my reasons.

I want my boys to be able to see their mother without having to be carted around in a minivan once a month for 10 hours.

I want to build a good co-parenting relationship regardless of her actions. This will still take a lot of work on my end to get there.

I want to focus on improving myself (physically and emotionally) not for her but for me and the boys so I can be around as long as I can for them.

I have learned a lot of lessons through this experience.

There is no "the one".

I need to learn what healthy communication with every person that I interact with.

I need to control my jealousy.

I need to let go of my ego and pride.

I create my own life and happiness.

I cannot control others nor want to control them.

There are some quotes that I have read in various books I think about often.

"The person is more important than the relationship itself."
From the book "More than Two: A Practical Guide to Ethical Polyamory" by Franklin Veaux

"I will not let my loyalty become slavery. If what I bring to the table isn't appreciated, I will walk away and let the other eat alone." Josie Picken

"If a partner respects me, I don't need rules to make them treat me well, and if a partner doesn't respect me, rules are just a bandaid that aren't ultimately going to help" Franklin Veaux

"If you love a flower, don't pick it up. Because if you pick it up it dies and ceases to be what you love. So if you love a flower, let it be. Love is not about possession. Love is about appreciation." Osho

These books that I have read talk about ethics whether monogamous or non-monogamous. It puts an interesting perspective that I have never seen on relationships or was just completely blind about.

Is non-monogamy any different from being single and dating?

In today's society is monogamy really monogamy with the divorce rates as high as they are?

I am not sure that I have answers to any of these questions or that I ever will. When I think about them though, it calms me and gives me some peace about the reality of life and relationships. It comforts me and helps me recognize that I will be fine with or without STBX in my life, regardless of what I prefer.

I want to lovingly detach. If I can get to that point, I hope to find peace with myself and become a better person than who I was a year ago.

If the best R I can have with my STBX is a healthy co-parenting relationship, I would prefer to have that over a high conflict one. Although there will bumps along the road and arguments, divorced or married, I would prefer to have my boys see both parents with smiles on their faces when they are in the same room than anger, sadness or whatever other emotion either one of us are feeling.

There was another article I read on a blog from a divorced single mom that encouraged new divorcee's to focus on themselves first and their kids second. When I first read the article I had the same reaction as others who posted comments about the author being selfish.

I then thought about my sitch and others sitches and what we all try and advise each other on these boards. Focus on you first and your children second. Married or not the breakdown in an R comes from the WAS/wayward spouse's perception. It is a catch 22.

I truly wish the laws were different and there was never a law of no-fault divorce. I also truly wish that counseling would be a mandatory requirement for those who want to get married.

If these things were implemented into our system it may not significantly reduce the divorce rate but it sure would educate people on how hard it is to do the work to make a marriage successful.

I am truly blessed to have my five boys and to have met my former wife. She is a good person that just needs to be where she is now.

[Georgia Bulldogs]

Sometimes the best way to "co-parent" is to use the Parallel Parenting Model. At least for a year or two.

In most situations like yours I recommend parallel parenting for the betrayed spouse no matter how good the other parent is seemingly being. It's just emotionally unhealthy for a victim of such abuse to be the one in there trying to be the bigger person or the "adult" with their very recent abuser.

In case like yours it's just mandatory.

You can't co-parent with a lying terrorist and she takes all your communications as attempts to control her.

Your comment about wanting receipts probably doesn't work for her because she's more worried about what her boyfriend(s) with say or think.

To her "co-parenting" is a means of manipulation and control of you by her. Parallel parenting shuts that down and enables YOU to heal.

Perhaps it's fine to move there as long as you clear it with your attorneys and; hopefully, your employer clearly defines it as a temporary assignment or something should you want to come back and she sues in Ontario trying to maintain residency/custody "as is" there. Establishing jurisdiction there is probably a huge risk so keeping an address in Michigan and not getting them dual citizenship might be safer but I have no idea. Talk to your lawyers. Get it in writing BEFORE you go there.

Parallel parenting isn't far off from LRT either. Being in Toronto will enable them to maintain and keep their relationship with mom; but, otherwise, such relationship developing and maintaining will be all on her.

I think this might have all gone down better emotionally for you if you had waited a few months to do this. After several months of reality sinking in for your STBXW sinking in and her failing to exercise her visitation (but before she got the whole summer next year) your decision to move there would have been met with relief and appreciation. Before the divorce was final just makes it sound like you didn't like the outcome, hate being stuck with the kids so much and maybe are looking for a way to MAKE her help you while maintaing control over HER kids. Not saying that's truth at all --- just how a self entitled manipulative wayward wife would maybe see things.

Antio

[Georgia Bulldogs]

Think of it this way....

Is is controlling to try to make your ex-wife collaborate with you?

She has no interest in real or meaningful collaboration. Anything you suggest or offer she has to filter through her own wayward self-entitled abusive head and how it will effect HER and HER relationship with OM#4,5, 6 or 7.

Parallel parenting will enable you to truly drop the rope and, LOVINGLY, allow her to hit rock bottom someday and recognize you really truly love and care for her children, you moved to Toronto for the kids only, you aren't trying to control her and she was a fool to leave you.

Just google parallel parenting and read up on it. There are many professionals that feel it is the better way to go in high conflict divorce/custody cases.


If your wife STAYS on her wayward path, you may very well want to move back to Michigan in a few years and make her vacation mom. The "mom" you once knew her to be would be forever gone and your kids would probably be better off NOT in her destuctive emotionally abusive mindset and lifestyle on a daily or even weekly basis. It may come to having to protect your children from her (and the men she brings into her life - - men who chase after women with young boys they can abuse).

[J5K]

Sometimes the best way to "co-parent" is to use the Parallel Parenting Model. At least for a year or two.

In most situations like yours I recommend parallel parenting for the betrayed spouse no matter how good the other parent is seemingly being. It's just emotionally unhealthy for a victim of such abuse to be the one in there trying to be the bigger person or the "adult" with their very recent abuser.

In case like yours it's just mandatory.

You can't co-parent with a lying terrorist and she takes all your communications as attempts to control her.

GB, thanks for the advice. Others have offered the same and after today's conversation with xW I will say I agree.

STBX goes to court this morning then sends me a text asking why I did not sign off on the agreement. Then she says now my L has to go back to court again to have it entered.

I did not see the text as I was working and then she calls and asks me the same questions above. I stated I did not want this and was unaware I had to sign anything, my L is still reviewing the judgment. She then went on to say every time I text and talk to L it costs me money. I agreed.

She then asks why I couldn't I have gone to court since I live her instead of making her drive and have a 10 hour round trip. I just validated with I bet this is very frustrating that you have to drive 10 hours to get this done.

And then more blah blah blah from her. I then just politely said I needed to get back to work and said goodbye and hung up.

The projection continues and somehow she feels I still need to help her get this done.

Your comment about wanting receipts probably doesn't work for her because she's more worried about what her boyfriend(s) with say or think.

To her "co-parenting" is a means of manipulation and control of you by her. Parallel parenting shuts that down and enables YOU to heal.

Agree, I will definitely set up a parallel parenting app to discuss things with STBX so I can heal. Her worries are hers to deal with. I need to focus on me and the boys. I see that she perceives I am trying to control her. If she ever brings it up, I will have to address it differently.

Perhaps it's fine to move there as long as you clear it with your attorneys and; hopefully, your employer clearly defines it as a temporary assignment or something should you want to come back and she sues in Ontario trying to maintain residency/custody "as is" there. Establishing jurisdiction there is probably a huge risk so keeping an address in Michigan and not getting them dual citizenship might be safer but I have no idea. Talk to your lawyers. Get it in writing BEFORE you go there.

The job is temporary, 3 year assignment. I will have to see what I can do about protecting my time with the boys prior to moving. More to come on that issue later.

Parallel parenting isn't far off from LRT either. Being in Toronto will enable them to maintain and keep their relationship with mom; but, otherwise, such relationship developing and maintaining will be all on her.

I think this might have all gone down better emotionally for you if you had waited a few months to do this. After several months of reality sinking in for your STBXW sinking in and her failing to exercise her visitation (but before she got the whole summer next year) your decision to move there would have been met with relief and appreciation. Before the divorce was final just makes it sound like you didn't like the outcome, hate being stuck with the kids so much and maybe are looking for a way to MAKE her help you while maintaing control over HER kids. Not saying that's truth at all --- just how a self entitled manipulative wayward wife would maybe see things.

Antio

I get your point that she may perceive this as me being stuck with the kids. At this point I really don't owe her an answer on that. I did not ask for her help in watching them when I move there. She offered when we spoke last Sunday, but her actions will speak to that. I have no confidence that she will consistently come and watch the boys 5 days a week after school. So the first or second time she slips and changes the schedule I will just have to get the babysitter/nanny back in the picture.