I wasn't going to post on this thread any more today but here goes. I do appreciate everyone's effort. I've got a test run going that will be processing for a while before I can look at the results so can put a bit more time in here. job is going to be whacking the "please start a new thread" button any minute now though and I hope we can put this dialogue behind us by then and move back to me talking about roses and cleaning the cat boxes again.
Before I respond to you Mach1 after re-reading I believe that the opinion of people here is that indeed that I am a pompous ass all the time and very condescending to everyone. They tried to be gentle in pointing this out by saying things like "look at how you sound" and stuff like that and hoping that I would notice. I didn't for some time in large part because I had thought they were indicating that there was something mysterious that I should have "known" that made me the cause of all the misery that both W and I have been suffering. Was this caused in part by my freely admitted lack of "emotional intelligence"? Perhaps. Again as I've written it is easy to get things out of context here. It may not be obvious on that side of the screen but writing these posts requires a huge effort on my part as I think and then re-think the composition and content and in the process perhaps lose some of the message.
Mach1 - I honestly don't have any questions other than trying to understand initially what Rose888 was trying to tell me which appeared to be a request to see things from my W's point of view which I find myself still unable to do. We all then got distracted as I went into more and more detailed explanations and responses. Does the answer to that really matter today? I don't think so - at least not enough to justify the effort that people have put in.
Yes - I come across in the written word sometimes as pompous and condescending. I even come across that way in real life at times. I've also said that I've been working on this for many years even long before BD - probably going back 20 years or more. No I'm not perfect. I like to feel that I am in fact a kind and understanding person who prefers to listen rather than talk (I can see the eye rolls from here people!). I respect people of all walks of life and levels of skills. In my relationship with W I would ask for and listen to her advice on a number of topics. She is a very smart woman with a lot of insight into different issues. Many things I do on a daily basis are the result of suggestions she's made that I've adopted and thanked her for. I have a huge amount of respect for her and her thoughts and opinions as well as those of many other people.
The condescending comment from my W was a single sentence she said in a time of stress while she was still trying to hide the A from me. It was never said before and only repeated once since. However this seems to be the source of literally thousands of words of commentary here now. And yes - I do admit that it has validity which is why I made a point of bringing it up as one of my known flaws.
Did I have a contribution to my W's depression, acting out and affair after 27 years together? Undoubtedly.
Was I the sole cause? Doubtful.
Will I need to work on being the best AndrewP I can be now and in the future whether W comes back to me or not? Absolutely.
Am I there yet? No and probably never will be - there will always be things I need to work on.
Do I see major changes that I need to make in myself to be this "best AndrewP"? No I don't - I like who I am.
To address one of the other comments which referred to my "take me or leave me" attitude. Let's presume that W comes out of her tunnel and is a changed person. Let's presume that at that point that W doesn't like the AndrewP that has been waiting for her hoping that she comes home. Then in that case W will either have to accept the AndrewP that she finds or not just like AndrewP will have to accept the W that comes home - or not.
That's the future and only a possible future at that. Let's leave that future to unfold on its own for now. Please rest assured that I'll be back here with a note of panic in my writing if it does happen.
Does that clear things up? I hope so.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Now she's getting what SHE needs from someone else.
Drew - I'm not seeing the purpose in pointing this out to me. Yes - I know that my wife of 27 years is having an affair with another man. Thank you for seeming to blame me for it and for the possible mid-life crisis that she is having and pointing out that I was inadequate as a husband.
Sorry - rather touchy today.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Hiya Andrew. I know your head is spinning a bit. I have to tell you that you have some of the best there is on here posting to you.
Forgive me as I haven’t read all your threads. I just wanted to tell you a little something that I have been through. Please bear with me a bit.
I was about the same age as your w when I got married. After a turbulent childhood, I fell in love with my xh’s maturity and steadfastness. It was a time when I was just beginning to find me and my voice. I was becoming confident and self-assured after a life of feeling less than.
He seemed to love those things about me. But there was another part of him who liked to be in control.
My feelings of confidence were very new and raw. Slowly, over time, things began to change. The changes were subtle ones. Little words here and there about how I could do something better, a disapproving look or he would redo something I had done.
I know now that I hadn’t realized because it was what I had known growing up. My mother would do the same things. It was my comfort zone. It was what I knew.
Over time, it would happen more often. He wanted more and more control. I wanted less for him to take care of me and more for him to really respect me. Round and round we went until I became very small. I began to go inside myself. Feeling inadequate and unworthy and depressed.
I do not know you and I am not, in any way, suggesting that this is what you are doing. Only you would know that. I will say though, that the 'cocky' attitude you talk about and have exhibited some here feels very familiar to me.
If you asked my xh, I think he would tell you that it wasnt his intention to make me feel as he did and that he was just trying to help and maybe that’s true in his mind.
But, had he accepted me for who I was, without judgement, I believe his actions would have been different.
The truth of it is that your wife was unhappy. You don’t have to understand her reasons, but, you have to accept them. They are her feelings and she is entitled to them.
I am not implying that everything your wife may be thinking and saying about you is true. MLCers say a lot of things. But you do need to look at all of them and see which ones hold weight and work on those. For you.
You are being given an amazing opportunity for growth here. Don’t throw it away. It’s way too important.
Hiya Andrew. I know your head is spinning a bit. I have to tell you that you have some of the best there is on here posting to you.
Absolutely. I'm thrilled that I have people like Jack_3_Beans, eric and job here along with many other kind and insightful people. The head-spinning and speaking in tongues thing doesn't happen very often but occasionally visitors and I will get wound up about what are probably trivial details but seem very important at the time.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
Forgive me as I haven’t read all your threads.
A bunch of drivel if you ask me. The bits written by some of the other people are quite good though especially I've been told on Page 6 of this thread or the first one in my MLC posting "Am I on the right bicycle" where Jack, eric and job gave me some great perspective and some excellent tools to navigate my side of this journey.
Please ignore the last couple of pages - for some reason we all got wrapped up in over-analyzing things that don't really matter at the moment. I also appear to have attracted a troll or at least someone who I am thinking of as a troll. Unfortunately that brings out the Billy Goat in me . I'll be more than happy if you come back again once things calm down which I hope they have now. I've read some of your past posts and you went on a heck of a ride and have a lot of perspective to offer. I do hope that you'll be around for a while.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
He wanted more and more control. I wanted less for him to take care of me and more for him to really respect me. Round and round we went until I became very small. I began to go inside myself. Feeling inadequate and unworthy and depressed.
I do not know you and I am not, in any way, suggesting that this is what you are doing. Only you would know that. I will say though, that the 'cocky' attitude you talk about and have exhibited some here feels very familiar to me.
I'm sorry to hear that and that that is the impression you have gotten. I don't feel that I am the controlling type although I freely admit that I can seem perhaps pompous especially in the written word. Unfortunately my W isn't here (at least I don't think she is - she might be) to give you her own perspective. I like to think that in most ways that we were partners in life. In many ways she was the one who "wore the pants" and set the agenda for us. Generally I am a pretty passive person who went along with whatever were her priorities. I would often refer to her as my "young trophy wife" although in reality she was only 18 months younger than me so there's not much age or maturity difference between us.
Originally Posted By: uRworthy
You are being given an amazing opportunity for growth here. Don’t throw it away. It’s way too important.
Thank you - I recognize this as well.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
^^^^ A lot of that, is exactly what I meant when I said that I feel as though you are trying to talk your way out of something.
Maybe you are, maybe you aren't.
I don't know you, other than what you post, and how you present yourself when you post.
So, straight up with you.
I get the feeling that you try to explain your way out of things, by either easily admitting to a problem that never gets addressed, or by deflecting the attention away from the issue, so that it appears that others around you are the ones who are misguided in their observations...
You present yourself as always being the smartest man in the room. Maybe you are, you seem very intelligent in your writings and observations. So when you state that you are not understanding, there are two options. Either we are being way too vague in our descriptions, or you are crying Wolf, in an attempt to deflect the attention away from the truth being fairly near you.
You present yourself as being very defensive with your words, and any criticism toward anything, which is a "red flag" in the DBing world. Defensiveness is a tool used to avoid any self reflection and ultimately leading to lacking true growth from the reflection.
You present yourself as being controlling toward others, in what we can post, what we can critique, what we can comment on. You only allow what you are ready to hear, and deflect and defend what you choose not to see.
An example of this is telling a community of established personalities, that they can or cannot 2x4 you...
Seems a bit controlling to me....
The answers that you speak of above....
Those answers are for you Andrew...
Nobody else here has to live your life, and cannot answer them for you.
The reason that I asked you about arguing with your wife, was so that you could maybe look at that, and understand that how you are presenting yourself here, could very well have been how she perceived you. And why would she even want to argue with you, if the outcomes was set in stone so as her opinion was simply nullified by your response to it.
How would you feel if every little thing was critiqued and changed into your perception being painstakingly incorrect ?
Oh wait...you don't like it. Hence this conversation...
And possibly, a reason that she didn't argue with you...
One of the first encounters that we had, I was very similar to where I am now. And now, others are seeing the same things in you..
So am I still incorrect about what I am seeing ?
Because this, is how you are presenting yourself...
So, I ask you again...
Why is it more important for you to be correct, than to value another's opinion ?
The reason that I ask you about being dismissive, is because of the above comments.
Your reason, or seemingly talking your way out of things, is quite dismissive of what other people see and feel.
How would you like it, if every time you had an opinion, someone dismissed you ???
So I ask you these questions...
Is the way that you present yourself here, the way that you want to present yourself to other people ???
Is that the Andrew that you really are ???
Is that the kind of Man, that is strong, and confident ???
Because to me, I wouldn't want that for myself...
And the reason that I post, is that I don't want that for you either....
Mach1 - I'm truly sorry that I've given you this impression. I feel that you have an incorrect perception of me and to be honest I've become exhausted today through this discussion which to me serves little or no purpose.
I do honestly disagree with much of what you've said that you believe to be part of my character but don't have the energy to dig into it and go over and over things that have been discussed before.
Good bye everyone for a while at least.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
You told URWorthy to dismiss the past few pages. These past few pages are of some people who care really trying to help. We've been telling you that you are dismissive, you say you aren't, then you actually tell someone to dismiss what has been written to you. You say they don't matter at the moment- very dismissive.
The one's posting to your are vets, reaching out to help. There isn't one single troll on here posting to you. I can verify that. Yes, you, like another poster are getting some excellent attention when, others would love it.
If you don't want the insight, you can say it. Being selective on what you want and don't want is hard for posters to distinguish.
I do honestly disagree with much of what you've said that you believe to be part of my character but don't have the energy to dig into it and go over and over things that have been discussed before.
A friend of mine told me here a long time ago: If something stings, maybe you should take a closer look at it.
Oh, by the way, it was J3B.
Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
. I'll be more than happy if you come back again once things calm down which I hope they have now. I've read some of your past posts and you went on a heck of a ride and have a lot of perspective to offer. I do hope that you'll be around for a while.