HalfTheMan & MLC-W

[Irish M]

Hi HTM
I agree with Jack and be that hero.
You are no longer in the presence of a rational person. She will play games with your mind, spew, play victim and show signs of the old her to get what SHE WANTS.

Protect yourself and your kids. You seem to be grasping the idea very well so far

Keep it up
I'm Cheering for you

Irish

[HTM]

Somehow ended up in a couple of discussions over the weekend just gone; follow on of the separation conversation from last week. It started while W was just heading out the door to take Ss swimming and got the feeling she wanted to stay & talk more; evident by the follow up txt while at swimming w/ Ss…

W…
"I think we need to chat further. I determined for us to be in the same vicinity for the boys. If possible. I think you need to sort your job situation first. I am happy for you to out buy me if you can. If so I am happy for them to stay there with you. On the strict understanding we have joint custody. If you can't afford to which is unlikely and you are based in XXX we can discuss where we both might move to. I can locate to somewhere like XXX for example. Where the boys live in this case will need to be discussed but we should both create a home for them.

Despite appearances I am working through my grief about you and the marriage. I do and will continue to believe our marriage to be a success despite what's happening now. It's just come to an end for me and it's time for me to start again. I understand you may feel differently. But life will be good again for both of us as some point. I'm tired of fighting with you. I just want a peaceful resolution devoid of the bitterness that's gone on before. I know I've hurt you and I have to live with that. But you'll move on and will find someone who can love you in the right way.

Me...
I still care for you deeply & worry about you more than you realise, don't feel that'll ever change. If you want to talk more about plans I'd be open to that.

I can see W trying to control or push my decisions wrt job/accommodation but I do wonder about the joint custody point. The way I see it, if I stay in the home/local I'd have them for the majority of the time, i.e. school week, so why stress that? Incidentally, my reply was more about laying a longer term foundation as in all the heated R talks/arguments so far, I haven’t stated anything like this.

So when we continue the conversation later at home, W still maintains she wants a fresh start away from where we currently live. Although, instead of moving 100+ miles away she’s backtracked slightly, now looking to move approx 30miles away & in the opposite direction; perhaps there isn’t a fantasy plan to be w/ OM after all!? Anyway, get the impression she changed her mind because I’m resolute about staying local -in the family home if I can finance buying W out- to lessen the impact on Ss wrt the split, i.e. minimise other major changes/upsets in their lives wrt schools/friends/family/etc. W persists w/ her thinking that the kids are ‘resilient’ and will cope with the separation as well as the upheaval of changing schools, leaving friends behind, etc. should it come to that. I of course, and anyone in their right mind, would disagree.

In one part of the discussion W mentions about being friends after the separation but I only offered to work towards an amicable co-parenting R. At some future time I may change my mind on this but that will be 'my' choice.

Have contacted S11’s school so they’re aware of the situation/separation and asked they monitor & advise me of any emotional behaviour problems that arise; will speak to S8’s school to the ask the same tomorrow.

W has been interacting w/ Ss a lot more over the last few weeks which I’m pleased about. This weekend she ran Ss to sports/activities and helped with homework; much like pre-BD w/ family interactions almost back to normal, and the non-R conversations we had were even pleasant! I’ve seen similar behaviour from my W before and so have no expectations that this will last. I’m suspicious that there could be an ulterior motive as well, perhaps the upcoming 1st Mediation appointment scheduled for next week.

Over the weekend I find out that my W has cancelled/dropped the Non-Molestation Order. Apparently this was discharged a couple of weeks ago so I’m miffed as to why she didn’t mentioned this sooner. Also concerned why the court didn’t try to contact me or L about this. Still, don’t look a ‘gift horse in the mouth’ right? But boy am I glad to have the pressure of automatic police arrest lifted from me. W did seem to think that the recent calm R/separation discussions are a result of her raising the court order but IMHO it’s because I’m becoming less emotionally engaged and now more closely following DB guidelines & forum advice; didn’t state this though ;-)

[HTM]

W reminds me yesterday evening of her upcoming week away for work in October while pinning up an itinerary on the kitchen notice board. Not sure why she thinks I need this as I remind her that I’m planning to take Ss away that week, pretty sure I’d mentioned this a while ago. Anyway, she inquires where I’m taking them and I say that I’m planning to hire an RV and do a little tour of Scotland. She looks at me, smiles and says “Why didn’t you ever plan anything like that before we were separated?” I reply “We’re not separated, we’re still married.” A slightly tense discussion ensues but I keep my cool and walk out of the room before it has a chance to escalate. It ends in a difference of opinion, she sees us as separated & I don’t, not until we’ve moved away/out anyway. Still can’t help thinking I could’ve handled this situation better though.

W seemed disappointed that my tennis practice got cancelled yesterday evening -genuinely- and I’d be around the house when she had an old work colleague coming over for supper/drinks. Of course, she wanted the house to herself, and in years previous I would of made myself scarce but I’m thinking she didn’t ask, just assumed I’d be out and this is my home too. W & friend were in the kitchen and I was in the lounge w/ S8 to help with his School reading. I then took him off to bed and returned to the lounge to watch TV -rerun of "Two and Half Men" my little comedy escape at the moment- for bit. When the TV programme finished (9:30pm) I was feeling restless and thought a session at the gym wouldn’t go amiss. I walk in to kitchen to grab my gym bottle & keys and found the kitchen door shut, probably so my W could bring 'quietly' bring her friend up to speed w/ the sitch. I made some polite conversation with the friend, whom I’ve known for some time too, then left.

Didn’t sleep well as I kept thinking about what W may have discussed with her friend the evening before. In the end got up at 5am, just before W gets up for work, and went downstairs for coffee. A short while later W comes down and I encounter the teenage MLCer mind. W’s complaining because she’d pencilled in a Thurs/Fri/Sat block of dates in the family calendar around her birthday. From a previous discussion I know she hadn’t confirmed all plans, certainly not for the Saturday. So I took the opportunity to book/undertake a course -GAL activity- that weekend, meaning she can’t stay overnight at a ‘friends’ because she’ll need to be home for Ss on Saturday morning. W then says she’ll go, and stay, out this Saturday instead which I see as her retaliating to my concrete plans. I did get drawn into some of the ensuing squabble, must try harder with detachment & holding my tongue, though did manage to validate a little. Eventually I saw where this was going, put my hand up and said “I’m done with this discussion.” W walked out of the room and went to get dressed for work. IMO another sign of teenage rebellion was what she was dressed in for the work day, a short flowery summer dress. In the past I’ve suggested this particular dress was worn for someone else. Didn't say anything this time but what amused me was here is someone wearing a summer dress when there was a thunderstorm & heavy rain outside I’m fairly confident she was trying to rile me, as later when I went into our bedroom something else had been laid out on the bed, more suitable for the days weather. I’m not going to bite this time though!

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Good Morning Hero,

That trip with your son sounds awesome. I hope you enjoy it.

It ends in a difference of opinion, she sees us as separated & I don’t, not until we’ve moved away/out anyway. Still can’t help thinking I could’ve handled this situation better though.

On one hand you did ok.
On the other hand, yes you could have.
You ever notice how hard it is to change someone's mind?
It's almost like they have to change it themselves when they gather new information on their own...

Let's say...I LOVE the Idea of independant Scotland. And let's say you don't. How are you going to change my mind? Notice how I pulled up something more or less current and relevant?
Did you notice that all the arguing and logic didn't change anyone's mind about whatever side they landed on?

Hero, sir,

How much of what you are doing is intentionally either passive aggressive, or done on purpose to impede or hinder her plans; vindictive?

I think you are better than that sir.

A question, do you want her to choose to come back to you, or force her back to you?

I get the feeling that there is a lot of simmering anger, that's not a surprise, in you right now. If you cannot manage it, or alleviate, it s going to sour everything you do in regard to her. It will seep into every interaction, and it will be noticed.

You are also doing alot of thinking what she must be thinking, or saying...
Mind Reading
Hamster Wheel
pointless

wasting your time, and fueling your anger, on imagined slights.

Kill your anger, or use it as a shield, and not a sword.
Stop saying snide comments, stop getting the last word.
These are battles you can win, and cost you the war.

[Huddy]

Independent Scotland. Jack, that is an idea of a bunch of braveheart addicts who couldn't rub a pencil mark off a page, never mind run a country. They'd be bankrupt within a week! Opportunists the lot of them.

Rant over. Back to normal service!

Sadly, HTM, they do consider themselves separated, regardless of if you're in the house or not. The final piece of nastiness is when they take off the ring and keep saying 'we're done'. In hindsight, and in house separation was a nightmare. There si only so much stress and heartache the human body can take before we 'fall over'. Plug on, but moving out isn't the same as moving on.

[HTM]

JTB,

I'm hoping -no scratch that- 'going' to make the trip great for both Ss and me. I offered the boys the option of Euro Disney or an RV tour of Scotland and they went for the latter.

As usual JTB your insight is brilliant, considering my emotions at the time I can't deny that there wasn't a hint of me trying to impede W's plans. I wouldn't say it was 100% vindictive or passive-aggressive for reasons such as the two day course being free, won't get an invite to the Saturday family get together and it's a subject that I've been interested in for a while, plus W did mention Saturday plans hadn't been confirmed when I went ahead and booked the course. However, thinking she'd be staying over at OMs the night before and swan-in at what time she felt like the next day did play on mind; you're right I need to do better and rise above that.

As for the 'simmering anger' don't think you're too far off the mark there either. Internally I'm still dealing with some considerable resentment and this probably emanates in any tense discussion that W & I have. I appreciate your thoughts/comments and recognise the long term damage this could do -judging by W's response think she has already picked up on this- so will work on channeling or using this in a more positive way in future.



Huddy,

Yeah heard the 'we're done' speech along w/ ring removal about 5 weeks ago after W had attended/completed 'End of Relationship' counseling at Relate... "I've been signed off, I'm good to go!" she says. But then in a recent txt she mentions still grieving for me & the marriage! How confuzzled would a person be if you didn't know of MLC crazy land?

[HTM]

So had the first Relate Mediation/Separation appointment on Monday. It went ok, took some AA meds to keep on top of any panic attack before going in, perhaps it helped as I didn’t get upset/angry or interrupt when W or mediator were talking. Fortunately this meeting was eased by the NMO court order being discharged by my W two weeks previous -now confirmed by my L- so any heated separation talk wouldn’t result in me being dragged off by the police.

Anyway, at this stage we’re working towards a full/combined financial picture to then begin dividing fairly between us. Custody will be covered in later appointments, though W has remarked she’s happy for me to have Ss during school week/term if I buy her out of the family home and/or stay local.

Full financial disclosure is expected and requires all supporting documentation which both of us are still trying to gather. I’m curious to see if W comes clean wrt recent ‘Replay’ spending habits as I know she’s outspending her monthly income; suspect she’s had final demand(s) for credit card payments. However, the impasse is not going to be her debts but her Pension. The Cash Equivalent Transfer Value (CETV) of her Pension is more than double mine due to her vocation & it being funded by the public sector. Plus she has been paying into this long before I started my pension.

During the meeting W got emotional/tearful when the Mediator touched on her Pension being a marital asset, “That’s all mine, I worked hard for all that!” I already knew that a pension can be used to offset more tangible marital assets, i.e. the house. A friend of mine had to give up his house to his XW during his divorce settlement because his pension was so substantial.

Now here’s my dilemma… do I utilise my W’s higher pension value to leverage a better deal on settling over the house?

By doing this am I justly protecting & securing the immediate to mid-term financial stability for S11, S8 and me? Having to re-mortgage and raise £65k instead of £130k makes buying W out of the family home much more viable. Additionally, w/ both Ss living with me for approx 70% of the week, W will have to pay alimony too -pretty sure her avoidance of reality means she’s unaware of any of this!

I can’t help but ponder the long term R damage my decision will have; worried that W will see this as me being bitter/vindictive for her wanting out of the MR, a Parthian shot. And what of the extended family and wider friendships that would certainly be soured, outsiders of the MR won’t know my side of the story, I’ll look like a complete bar-steward for doing this to her!

I discussed all of this with my IC this week & he at least alleviated my concern about my in-laws, remarking that chances of paths crossing in future will be minimal, however, he is of the opinion that the MR cannot be saved -a DB non-believer- but for now he is beneficial to my mental well being so I continue to see him.

I intend to discuss this with my L and get a legally objective take on the matter ahead of next months follow up appointment.

Grateful for any input from the DB community too.

[job]

HTM,

This is now a business deal gone sour. I know it's difficult, but you can't worry about whether she will think you are being vindictive or not. Trust me, if the shoe were on the other foot, she would definitely use your pension as a bargaining chip when dealing w/the house.

All assets, pensions, etc., should be brought to the table and then the talks should get down to the money talks/bargaining begins. You do what you need to do in order to secure a home for your kids. There is absolutely no harm in bargaining for the house and at this time, you need to think only of yourself and your children.

Just remember...this is now a business deal, leave your heart and emotions at the door when it comes to discussing money, etc.

[HTM]

Struggling a little tonight/this-morning. Fell asleep on the couch for about 4hrs then on retiring to bed couldn’t sleep with too much spinning around my head.

W is away for the night & I know she's spending it w/ OM, it's fairly evident to me considering what she was wearing when leaving the house yesterday afternoon.

As W was saying goodbye to Ss in a separate room, I overhear S8 mention to S11 that mummy was staying over at granddads -of course she is! I also overhear S11 ask if my W was seeing her g.f., W's usual cover story, but got the impression she avoided answering the question by walking into the kitchen, where I was, to collect her keys and then leaving.

After she’d left I took Ss over to my sisters to see the newest addition to the family, my nephew's baby girl, born a few days ago. While there the boys have fun with their cousins, I catch-up with both sisters as well as BIL and of course great uncle HTM gets his cuddles with the little one

We return home and I get Ss off to bed. I’m in a good enough place to deal with W being away w/ OM until I open a joint bank statement. W & I are gathering relevant financial documentation for ongoing mediation and she must have requested this statement from the bank. As it’s addressed to both of us I open it. On closer inspection I find a debit card purchase which confirms she was in the vicinity of OM's place a few weeks ago; he's 3hrs away from where we live.

As detached as I’ve become it’s strange how finding this affects me. I’ve known for a while that she covertly sees OM. A few days ago I saw her taking a selfie to message him with. Even worse, just this week think I almost walked in on her having phone sex! IMHO I deal with all of this so well but then a little detail like an entry on a bank statement has my mind reeling.

Need to get this off my chest this morning as in my current frame of mind, I’m likely to explode at her when she walks through the door later today.

[job]

HTM,

As much as you would like to explode at her, breathe and count to 10. No matter what you say, she will be that much more determined to continue to do what she's doing. The best thing would be to document what you have found and keep it close because you may need the evidence at a later date.

Right now, you are in the early stages of gathering financial info and you just never know, it might be something that can be addressed when discussing the financial data during mediation. I know it's difficult, but you've got to keep what you have found to yourself for now. The time will come when you will have your say...but get through the financial stuff first.

Just my two cents.