Still, when she has problems she looks to me to fix them. She asked if I knew how to fix the phone for her. Then she asks me to wake her up in the morning. She could have asked the front desk or the lady she is traveling with to give her a call, but nope she asks me. A couple of weeks ago she got a ticket for apparently texting or looking at emails while driving. Guess who the first person she calls after the incident? She called me to complain about it.
C A K E
Everybody hurts. It's part of life. Don't miss the good stuff.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
But I don't see her interactions with Eagle as a bad thing. If Eagle can handle it.
To me that was the breaking point of cake eating...if the LBS couldn't handle the interactions.
Is she having a good time with other people and not Eagle? Yes. Is she getting something from her interactions with Eagle on her terms? Yes.
BUT
Eagle can get something out of these interactions. He can plant the seeds of doubt if he is smart and careful...and Eagle? Shuts TFU with the snarky comments when he does talk with her.
She could have called the front desk to have a wake up call. instead she asked Eagle? Now I refuse to go into her head and try to mind read a total stranger...especially one who is in MLC crazy land...so no mind reading there. But other options easier on both of them and she asked for this one?
Take advantage of it.
I would have, I'd like to think, called her and been funny. Maybe done it in a french accent...something.
Eagle, yeah your in a bad sitch, you have opportunities to show her, that yes, you don't want this, but your strong and are going to be fine and your happiness is not dependant on her. It's a game that most certainly isn't a game, because in the end, that is exactly what we want you to be. And that person...that is the person that has the best chance of reconciling with a stronger marriage.
So...I'm hesitant to say...cake eating, throw down some boundaries dude.
Because boundaries...that's a hard line. It has to be otherwise you have no teeth, and your boundaries are meaningless.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I'm with Jack on this one. Her complaints about me are that I wasn't really interested in her, I didn't like to do things for her and I criticize her. I agree with some of what she said and not so much with other stuff.
As far as the wake up call. If she would have called me 2 months ago before any of this happened and asked me to give her a wake up call, I am 99% sure I would have told her to ask the front desk. Not because I wouldn't want to do but because that would make the most sense to me. That is part of the hotel front desk job and it makes the most sense. Last night when she asked I did look at it as an opportunity to show her I would do something for her.
Like Jack, I'm trying not to mind read here, but part of me thinks she is testing me to see how much I've changed. She knows how I would answer in the past when she would ask me to do that and maybe I showed her something last night by telling her I would wake her up. I called her right at 6:00 am this morning like she wanted and she thanked me for doing it. She said she was up late because she did a factory reset on her phone and was restoring it (I was really hoping she would have to go the whole day without a phone, it would drive her crazy).
I probably am mind reading but I really get the feeling I am being tested lately. She has started to talk about her past and I have been very attentive and have asked questions. I think she called me about her traffic ticket to gauge my reaction because in the past I probably would have upset with her for texting and driving, but this time I was calm and told her everybody makes mistakes. There are other little things here and there that she has told me that I felt she was testing me too. She made the comment last weekend that she noticed changes in me. I know it might not mean much, but it was nice to get that acknowledgment.
As far as the other guys, I'm not really sure what to do about it. I have thought about a boundary where I tell her that I feel disrespected if she texts them when I'm around, but I haven't said anything to her yet. Part of the reason is that I don't really know what they are texting about. I know OM #1 and her had some sexual texts that I read a month ago, but she swears that is over and they are just texting about work (I don't really believe her) and I've only seen 3 texts from OM #2 and none have been sexual in nature. I do feel its inappropriate that they texts hundreds of times a day but if I say something right now it will probably just drive her off to her divorce attorney so I keep my mouth shut.
I have been working on me and I have been working on the complaints that she has against me. I guess I'm looking at this as an opportunity like Jack has mentioned. I don't know how long I can last, but I'm holding on for now. I have had to walk away by myself a few times so I wouldn't say anything when I know she is texting and I have slipped up a few times.
My W is just so hard to figure out (and I guess I shouldn't try). I don't know how much thought she has given to all of this. I remember reading Sandi2's description of a WW in an A and how its like a drug that she knows is wrong but she just can't stop it. My W mentioned something similar early on when I first found out about OM #1. I asked her to stop with texting and she said she knows she needs to but she just can't. She mentioned last week that she knows she needs to stop flirting with guys and its doing her no good. So I think deep down she still has morals, but for some reason she just can't use those morals. The one night she was drunk and talked about her step dad that past away, she also told me that this wasn't my fault. She said she is just messed up and she knows she need to stop and get help. Then a couple of nights later when she was sober she said she doesn't need therapy and I'm the problem. The stuff she told me the night she was drunk I believe is the true her. She was hurting and not blaming me. She wanted my help, but seemed to not know how to ask for it. I told my therapist about this and she told me most of the time people are much more truthful when they are drunk because there guard is down. Now if I can only get my W to be drunk all the time we could probably work this thing out (That was a joke).
M39, W36 T12, M10 S6,S2 Discovered EA 8/8 that started 7/31
from J3B…..But I don't see her interactions with Eagle as a bad thing. If Eagle can handle it.
I think the key is “handle it”. I would word it a bit differently. I would say….as long as he “does not read into it”.
Quote:
from J3b….Because boundaries...that's a hard line. It has to be otherwise you have no teeth, and your boundaries are meaningless.
I could not agree more. Having caught up on this thread….I believe that Eagle is too AFRAID right now to even think about boundaries. IMO, first he must face his fear and find Eagle. Find who Eagle really is, fix the chit about himself that Eagle needs to fix and right now….FEAR has him by the balls.
Eagle, I’ve caught up on your thread and you are getting some good advice. For what it is worth here is mine.
I really think you need to face the fear that your W right now is batchit crazy and much like a teenager will want, want, want. The crumbs that she are leaving you are giving you hope, which on one had is a good thing on the other is a bad one. You see, I believe that in your case (2 OM in the picture), you need to start really focusing on YOU – once and for all. J3B is right in that every interaction that you have with your W should be taken as an opportunity to showcase the new you. The only problem that I see, is that you view these interactive very differently than she does. I suspect that you want the M fixed NOW – whereas she really can take her time. She is in no rush.
DB is so counter intuitive…it really is. It truly does not feel natural. It’s almost as if your mindset has to be…….that you not give two chits if the WAS is coming back. That does not mean that you become an arse – no…you continue to use the opportunities that are presented to show the changes. The changes…that if done for YOURSELF are truly changes that run deep. They are the type of changes that stick. The changes that I think you are making right now…are probably just being made to get her back. So…she does not trust them. Add to the mix 2 OM’s and she is in lala land.
So ask yourself the question……..
Are ALL of the changes that you have made really for YOU or are some of them for HER?
The ones that are for you KEEP ‘em….the ones that are for HER….let them go. Learn to be comfortable with who YOU are. Stop being so afraid!
Use the interactions as J3B has suggested but YOUR focus should be on living YOUR life. That means doing things for YOU, that means being a kick arse parent, that means continuing to work on yourself….
DB says do what works….
Is being a fixer to your W working for you? Is it achieving the goals that you have – for YOU?
Stop being afraid Eagle! It is a CHOICE that YOU can make. Much like J3B and yourself admitted i.e. the monsters in your head. The fear you have of what would happen if...... are also just monsters in YOUR head. Face those f*ckers and trust me....what you find inside yourself, about yourself....will be the best thing you do for YOU, your kids and believe it or not....YOUR W (regardless of the outcome).
So….in closing…..
Do me one favor…..
List ONE thing that you have always wanted to do but never did. This one thing should be achievable (not something like I want to purchase the Empire State Building in NYC and paint it Pink)….something doable, then….tell me how you plan to achieve it and WHEN you plan to achieve…it should be something that you can do in the NEXT two weeks. Yep…2 weeks buddy.
Oh…and stop stressing over the text. Honestly, this is where IMO, you start to say she is crazy and it is about time that I start focusing on me.
One more question….what is more attractive?
Scenario 1 – A man that is open, honest, sensitive, communicative that works out, spends time with his friends, is a good father, takes care of himself, smells good, dresses nice, has a life outside of the house yet is still the leader of the home.
Or
Scenario 2 – A man that is afraid, cannot accept change, worries, [censored] at being a dad, cannot say what he feels, is passive aggressive, has no friends or if he does barely sees them, has no life.
Which one do you want to be?
Oh…and before you answer….
Consider this…..
YOUR W does NOT make that choice! You get to decide who that man is.
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
That is a post I am going to have to think a lot about before I respond to it fully. I understand where you are coming from and I think I am honestly afraid around her. I guess I'm walking on egg shells that if I screw something up then we are done. I need to get to that point that I don't care anymore, but I just have to figure out how to get there. You made some great points and I want to comment on them when I have more time to digest what you said.
I'm sitting here at this computer completely stumped on your question about something I always wanted to do but haven't done. Right now I feel like a man with no dreams, and that is not a good feeling. I need to sleep on this question because I honestly don't know right now. I think I have spent my life being afraid of taking chances.
At this moment I'm not really sure what I want in life. I know I want to be a great dad to my sons but other than that I just don't know. Sometimes I feel like I'm just here, but not really sure of the purpose. I will get back to your post when I have time to think about it more.
M39, W36 T12, M10 S6,S2 Discovered EA 8/8 that started 7/31
Eric, I couldn't sleep because I was thinking about your post so I am going to try to answer it the best I can.
Quote:
I think the key is “handle it”. I would word it a bit differently. I would say….as long as he “does not read into it”.
Thats the key and right now I think I am doing a good job at not reading into it, but its a battle I fight everyday.
Quote:
I could not agree more. Having caught up on this thread….I believe that Eagle is too AFRAID right now to even think about boundaries. IMO, first he must face his fear and find Eagle. Find who Eagle really is, fix the chit about himself that Eagle needs to fix and right now….FEAR has him by the balls.
You are correct that I am too afraid. I will admit that I am scared that I will make the wrong move and I question myself everyday if I am doing this right. I wrestle everyday with the thought of telling her that I don't want to be around while she is texting OM. I have thought so much about confronting the OM. I have thought about telling the OM's wife. In the end I have always just decided to play the doormat and be there for her. I have often wondered (I know I should not try to get in her mind) if she actually wants me to speak up and be strong and tell her I will not live like this, but I am just so unsure on what to do.
Quote:
I really think you need to face the fear that your W right now is batchit crazy and much like a teenager will want, want, want. The crumbs that she are leaving you are giving you hope, which on one had is a good thing on the other is a bad one. You see, I believe that in your case (2 OM in the picture), you need to start really focusing on YOU – once and for all. J3B is right in that every interaction that you have with your W should be taken as an opportunity to showcase the new you. The only problem that I see, is that you view these interactive very differently than she does. I suspect that you want the M fixed NOW – whereas she really can take her time. She is in no rush.
I don't know if I necessarily want the M fixed now, but I do want these OM gone now. I know this M will not be fixed overnight and that it would be a long road, but I also know we can't fix it if the OM are in the picture still. I guess I wake up everyday and just hope something will happen that will cause these OM to leave the picture. My therapist told me I can't win against these OM because they are just fantasies for her and I am the reality. I just need them gone, but I figure there is nothing I can do about that.
I need to work on myself and it is so hard when most of my day is spent worrying about my marriage. I wish I could just go away for a few days and just do something else, but with my role in the kids lives that is impossible.
Quote:
So ask yourself the question……..
Are ALL of the changes that you have made really for YOU or are some of them for HER?
I honestly think most of the changes I've made are for me. I am honest with myself and I think the chances of our M getting back together are slim, but I wasn't happy with myself and I need to change. Also, if the M doesn't work out I know at some point I will find another relationship and I have to work on myself to make that one successful. I don't think I have been truly happy, but I don't really blame my W or the M. I just think I have things I need to work on. Things that I haven't really thought about in a long time that I need to address. I need to start talking about these with my therapist.
Quote:
Is being a fixer to your W working for you? Is it achieving the goals that you have – for YOU?
That is the big question. I need to find some goals for me. I really need to focus on me and forget about her.
Quote:
Stop being afraid Eagle! It is a CHOICE that YOU can make. Much like J3B and yourself admitted i.e. the monsters in your head. The fear you have of what would happen if...... are also just monsters in YOUR head. Face those f*ckers and trust me....what you find inside yourself, about yourself....will be the best thing you do for YOU, your kids and believe it or not....YOUR W (regardless of the outcome).
This part of your post got me emotional. I have to stop being scared. To be honest I don't even know how much I want my W back, maybe I'm just scared of losing her if that makes sense. I love her, but she has hurt me like no one else has and I've basically let her. Everyday that she texts those guys she is hurting me and it really pisses me off. I don't even feel like a man at times around her. She is in so much control. I'm letting her control this whole situation.
Quote:
List ONE thing that you have always wanted to do but never did. This one thing should be achievable (not something like I want to purchase the Empire State Building in NYC and paint it Pink)….something doable, then….tell me how you plan to achieve it and WHEN you plan to achieve…it should be something that you can do in the NEXT two weeks. Yep…2 weeks buddy.
I'm not sure if this is what your looking for but I have been wanting to spend the day hiking. We have a lot of great places to hike around here but I haven't been hiking in probably 20 years. A couple of weeks ago I really thought about going one weekend, but I changed my mind at the last minute. Its not really a goal or a dream, but its something I want to do for me. Something I want to try. A way to get away from all this stress and just be outdoors. It's also something that would be out of my comfort zone because I am not really an outdoors guy.
Eric in your scenario you posted I definitely want to be the first guy, but my life has turned into the 2nd guy. I don't know what happened over the years but I am that 2nd guy now.
I also want to say thank you for your post. You made me think like no one else has. It was hard going through the post because I started to realize how much I don't like about myself right now, but I appreciate it. I wish I had you on speed dial for when I'm feeling down because I know you could straighten me out. Your post has me thinking about life outside of marriage and that I need to find myself. I need to make changes for me. Now I just need to figure out how to do this.
M39, W36 T12, M10 S6,S2 Discovered EA 8/8 that started 7/31
My W surprised us and came home last night about 9 pm from her work trip. She didn't call or anything, she was just all of a sudden at the door. She was supposed to be home late today. I was not expecting her and left my DR book on the kitchen counter. She saw the book and asked what it was. I told her it was just a self help book. Later on she was watching tv with me and during one of the commercials she asked about the book. She wanted to know where I got it or who told me about it. I told her my therapist recommended it. She asked if its working and I told her I don't know, but it's just a self help book. I always keep the book in a secret place, but left it out because I had been looking at it while she was gone. I hope she doesn't start investigating the book, but I don't trust her not too.
She also asked me about my therapist. She wanted to know what we talk about. She made some comment about if we talk about masturbating that I guess was a joke, but who knows wth she is thinking about. She said she doesn't like not knowing what the therapist and me are talking about and she said I always made her feel like sh*t. I calmly apologized if I made her feel that way in the past and told her it was never my intention to make her feel that way. Then I went back to tv show and tried to not talk to her anymore.
I'm also starting to wonder about her drinking. She drank about 3/4 of a bottle of wine when she got home last night. I know she drank a bottle last Saturday night and close to one on Sunday. On labor day weekend she got wasted on Friday night (that was the night she broke down) and she was drinking on both Sunday and Monday night of that weekend as well. She used to have maybe a glass or sometimes 2 but now it's nothing for her to drink the whole bottle.
She has also started talking about wanting a new car. She has always liked her car and had never made any comments about wanting to replace it. Now she told me last night the make and model of a high end car that she wants. I know with men in an MLC this is common but I don't know if women also want these types of things.
I'm getting close to the end of my rope with her. Jack and Eric posted about if can handle her texting the OM and I don't know how much longer I can go. Last night after I responded to Eric's post on here I was going to bed and as I walked by her room I saw her on her phone texting. It was 1:15 am and my S2 was sleeping next to her because he had got up crying. So she was laying in bed texting another man at 1:15 in the morning with my son right there next to her. I managed to get to my room without saying anything, but I think I am getting close.
M39, W36 T12, M10 S6,S2 Discovered EA 8/8 that started 7/31
I really think you need to face the fear that your W right now is batchit crazy and much like a teenager will want, want, want. The crumbs that she are leaving you are giving you hope, which on one had is a good thing on the other is a bad one. You see, I believe that in your case (2 OM in the picture), you need to start really focusing on YOU – once and for all. J3B is right in that every interaction that you have with your W should be taken as an opportunity to showcase the new you. The only problem that I see, is that you view these interactive very differently than she does. I suspect that you want the M fixed NOW – whereas she really can take her time. She is in no rush.
I don't know if I necessarily want the M fixed now, but I do want these OM gone now. I know this M will not be fixed overnight and that it would be a long road, but I also know we can't fix it if the OM are in the picture still. I guess I wake up everyday and just hope something will happen that will cause these OM to leave the picture. My therapist told me I can't win against these OM because they are just fantasies for her and I am the reality. I just need them gone, but I figure there is nothing I can do about that.
I need to work on myself and it is so hard when most of my day is spent worrying about my marriage. I wish I could just go away for a few days and just do something else, but with my role in the kids lives that is impossible.
I'm gonna touch on this part if Eric doesn't mind....
Well, I'm going to whether he minds or not actually : )
^^^ Up there, a few posts ago, when boundaries were brought up.
You said that you were going to go with what J3B said...
And I pretty much knew that would be your answer.
Why ?
Because it is the right choice ???
Maybe it is...
Moreso for you Eagle...
It was because it was the EASY choice...
It didn't involve YOU doing anything other than what you were already doing, or had done in the past...
Why ??
Because you are so filled full of fear, that you can't see anything other than what you THINK is happening, or going on, or going TO happen if you make a move. Be it the right or wrong one...
You say that you want the OM gone....
Do you really feel that THEY are the problem here ??
I would say that they are a symptom of the problem here...
But hey, what do I know...
Now I am not saying that you should run right out and get a OM1 and OM2 disguise kit or anything..
What do these guys have, that you are not projecting (not to her, but to the universe)...
Confidence ? Strong decision makers ??
Things like that ???
Eagle, you are being pushed here, because we don't want you to be like them, or act like them...
You are being pushed to be better than them...
Stronger, more confident, more successful....
You are focused entirely on the wrong things, and because of that ???
You will fail.....
Not the marriage, not your kids, none of that...
You will fail yourself..
You are selling yourself, just for the sake of the marriage..
The boundaries thing, yea, you aren't there yet...
Boundaries are limits that you put in place, NOT to punish another person, but to protect yourself from toxic actions around you...
They need to be firm, absolute, and enforced..
Enforcing them is the most vital part.
Thing is...
You don't know who YOU are inside well enough, to know what is toxic around you.
For now....
Focus on the things that you can actually change...
Your thought
Your actions
Your self worth
Your goals
Your dreams
Your inner worth....
Think about Eric's questions....a lot. And when you are done, think about them some more....
Cause with what you just posted above....
There will be more behind this.....
Eagle, YOU are in charge of YOU....nobody else.
Stop letting your wayward spouse dictate how YOU should live your life....
