CA27 -- you're doing very well. You're a good role model for a guy like me who has had a really hard time getting anywhere on the detachment front. Keep it up!
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
No, she certainly hasn't come to her senses. Beware, b/c I think her "admission" was nothing more than setting you up for what she plans to spring on you in the "talk". I suggest it was as close to buttering you up as she could get.
The WW will say something to cause the H to think just like you did. Then, while she has him in this mood......she drops something on him. And, after being buttered............well, you know.............
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Honestly, I don't think I'm up for a "talk" but I don't want to simply avoid a difficult situation. No, I don't think that she's suddenly come to her senses and wants to come back to the marriage, not for a second! I really think she's had a few days to reflect on how mean and spiteful she was to me last week and wants to find a way to smooth things over so she can feel less guilty and less like the bad guy in this.
I don't really feel like engaging with her, so I think I will politely decline her offer to chat. I will be too tired. Or, I may ask her what she wants to discuss, and if it's not our S, finances, scheduling, or her moving out, I'm not interested.
Hello CA27,
I have to agree with Sandi about discontinuing MC. If MC is only asking you how you feel after hearing W spew, it isn't productive. Michele has a video regarding when couples therapy is a bad idea. Email me and I can send you the link.
If you don't want to talk to her, don't. How you handle ongoing conversations is crucial.
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First of all, thanks to everybody who has responded with insight and feedback. These responses are like gold for me!
So, we ended up having the "talk" last night. Our predictions on the board here were mostly on the mark.
First I have to confess that I did lose my cool for the first time in awhile. I've been doing pretty well for a long stretch so I was disappointed in myself, but I suppose we can't always bat 1000. Initially she had sent me a semi-apologetic but vague txt a few days ago, then another where she said we should talk. The next day in person she said she had the night off the next evening and that we should have a talk. I hadn't responded to the earlier texts but at this point I simply said "ok, sure." So last night I am watching our S while she goes to her yoga class and then she sends a message that she's coming home for a bit and then going to for the night.
Unfortunately for me, this really just struck a nerve and perhaps I was taking the bait here. I didn't respond to her txt but when she got home I reminder her that she had asked to have a convo tonight but now was suddenly making other plans. I asked if she actually had something to say to me, or if this was just a way to build up dramatic suspense. This was unnecessary for me to add of course and it was testy. She was snippy back and said I was in a bad mood, etc. We cooled off quickly though and agreed to have a chat after S when to bed.
Basically, the gist of the convo was that:
--she started off complaining about two recent occasions when I was out of the house and she was unclear on when I was coming or going. These were both days that she's off of work and some of the only times I'm not watching our S. I validated her frustration and offered that we should both be better at coordinating our schedules.
--she said that she felt that there was too much tension in the house and that I seemed angry at her, and that things didn't feel very amicable. I think that this is in response to me going darker/dim in the past couple of weeks. I somewhat validated, but said that I was really just focusing on my life and trying to give her the space she's said she's needed.
--Finally, the heart of the conversation: She said she was offered some shifts as a server at a restaurant in the next city over (an hour away) and that she was going to move in with her (female) friend there to live and work. She had some vague ideas of how it would all work, and I responded that that was fine, but that our S needed to stay primarily in our/his home and that she could figure out a couple of days in the week to have him.
She said that she was doing this to make more money (she would supposedly live for free in her friend's house) and earn more, but that it would be better and easier for me. I told her that I appreciated her considering my feelings, but that she needed to do this because she wanted to and that my feelings were my own to responsibility.
In the end I told her that it sounded like moving out was what she wanted to do and that it sounded like she had a plan. I told her that it was up to her to figure out the logistics of moving out and her schedule and that she would needed to find a local daycare option for our S while I'm working. I told her that she was responsible for looking into that. Basically my whole response to the "moving out" BD was, "ok, that sounds like what you want to do" in a calm, friendly way.
--After all that she sort of momentarily backpedaled saying that perhaps this might not work out and we might have to live together again in the future or something. I don't really remember my response, but it was probably like, "well, we'll have to see what happens."
--Lastly she said again that she apologized for the night of spewing at me the week before, when she was demanding permission to start dating and saying all sorts of hurtful things to me. She said she wished she could take it all back and to forget everything that was said. I didn't ask for clarification on what that meant exactly, but said: "I really appreciate that you're apologizing, it means a lot. I am still processing that whole discussion."
I cut things short and then said, "well, it sounds like you have a plan for what you want to do. Keep me posted on it." and then I walked away. She seemed a little taken aback that the convo was over, but we had come to a good stopping place.
She went out for the rest of the night and I went to bed after chatting with a few friends online.
What I came away with:
--I'm disappointed that WW has taken my distancing as "being mad." I haven't been rude at all to her except being snippy at the onset last night, but need to work on being more of a "friendly neighbor" even though right now she's not a neighbor I'm particularly fond of. Cool and pleasant but not cold.
--I am very sad that she said she will be moving out. It hurts my heart a bit because it feels like one more nail in the marriage's coffin. I am trying to remind myself that it might not actually happen. My W is notorious for big plans that never materialize because she often has trouble planning or thinking through the logistics. We'll see what happens, but I am going to live under the assumption that she'll leave. I'm also reminding myself of how much calmer it will be to have the house to myself, especially when S and I are together.
I don't know how well I did from a DBing point of view. I was snippy at first but quickly started agreeing and validating without agreeing that I wanted her to move out. Also, I have been firm in that she needs to move out if she will be dating other people, so I guess she's taking me up on that one.
Well, I suppose I have to let go of the rope now...
I've been reading up on your thread and I feel like we have pretty similar situations. My WW went gradually from "I'm not attracted to you" to ILYBINILWY in about 5 months. The "not attracted" BD bummed me out but didn't really shake me too much. At that point, I felt like we could regain intimacy if we worked on it and things would sort out. When she hit with ILYB... she also said she probably wanted to separate or "non-romantically co-parent) and that's when I fell apart and did every possible--and of course futile--thing to try to fix the relationship. It's really only been in the past several weeks that I've felt like I've begun to have any success distancing and detaching.
Right now, I miss the intimacy of her and I together in our M, but when I look at her, I don't really feel attracted to her and I remind myself that this is the person that fired me as her H and doesn't feel our M is valuable enough to try saving. That makes her much less attractive to me. At this point I am trying to not let myself get angry in reaction to her or let her get under my skin.
Thanks for the kind words and good luck to you! I'm going to keep following your sitch.
Just had a random check in from MIL. She is very close to our S and lives about 1.5 hour drive away. She watches S about once a week or so. Often W brings S over so she can do her homework. I took a chance and asked MIL if W seemed to act any differently lately. MIL said OMG and opened up with a deluge about how much W has changed recently. Says W constantly complains about how miserable she is but always portrays herself as the victim. MIL said that she is beside herself about W's decision to sepearate as she is a big champion of M and feels keeping a M together is best for children and couples. M&FIL have been married for over 36 years and have had difficulties and gone to MC at various times over the years.
MIL said that W and W's father are no longer on speaking terms. When they are in the house together they don't even acknowledge each other's presence. He is apparently furious with her for walking away from the marriage. MIL says that she has been freely admonishing W for the mistake she is making and telling her to try to reconcile but has lately held her tongue because W has threatened to withold visits with S. I told MIL that such talk just makes W dig her heels in more and asked her to just validate W's feelings as much as she could and tell her that she loved her. She agreed. W and her mother used to talk everyday on the phone and MIL says now she only gets short txt messages from her.
MIL said that it felt like W had reverted to her teenage years when she was very rebellious and W and her father had very little relationship. The two of them did not speak for many years from late high school to just around when she graduated college. The tow of them made up and have had a good relationship the entire time I've known her until now. It's really sad and I empathize for all of them as I know everyone is hurting.
Apparently FIL has some emotional issues. He is very withholding of his feelings and bottles up, then explodes with anger. I don't think he was abusive to W but had violent outbursts at times. This makes me reflect on my own actions in the past as I've tended to avoid conflict even when I was angry. W very often asks if I'm angry or tells me I'm angry even if I'm actually not, just being firm or straightforward. It seems like something she is very sensitive to and always on the lookout for.
It makes me reflect on my interactions with W. I really need to be as calm and even with her as possible and really try to let go of anger as much as possible. I really don't feel that at the stage we are at right now it's productive to share feelings, but maybe if I'm actually angry about something, I need to be forthright and address it directly and say so--in a calm way.
The insight from MIL was helpful. She was very apologetic and kept saying she couldn't believe she raised a daughter like this! I told her not to think like that and that W was making her own choices. I thanked her for all the love and support she and FIL have shown to me over the years. That was the hardest thing, as I really do love the in-laws. That's not something that you always hear. I was tearing up as I said good bye to her and am now as I think that my relationship with them will change. I am happy that S will always have them as grandparents, tho.
In the end, the other sad realization is that I know they aren't my allies in this and that I can't recruit them to help. I asked MIL not to tell W about our convo, which felt like a weird familial betrayal to ask of her, so I won't chat with her again about the W. I also know that if things get worse with W or if we have to go through a D, they will have to (and should) take her side.
