What should I be doing (Working toward D 9)

[Surfer]

Apologies was responding to the 'punch bag' comment.

[Surfer]

Coconut.

This is the most important bit in my mind:

"how do I keep the anger and hurt at bay?"

You don't keep anger at bay. Is a feeling. Just recognise it, but don't react to it.

"how do I keep hurt at bay?" Detach.

You have done it before. Focus. PROPERLY. No more dipping in and out. CT knows. RSG too. We have all done it. Mate. Detach.

Feel who YOU are - not this messed up person. That's not YOU.

Jog on. Slowly. Build the power.

Surfer.

[Coconut]

Ok, so signing the listing agreement for the house today, also have been applying for jobs out of state... Haven't been offered a job yet, but I believe the house will sell pretty quickly, so it's the step that needs to be done to move on... But still some question as to if I want to start over with her or alone. Still some doubt, so I sent the following text, not expecting anything but felt the need to send it..



I just want to make sure that this is the path you want to go down before I sign the agreement, by path I mean Divorce. It would take a lot from each of us to make us work, and a long time to get there, but I am willing to do whatever I can to save our marriage and be happy together.

I don't know how I feel about you right now, I don't think we've even talked in over a month, but what I do know is that feelings change. If someone would have told me on our wedding day what was to come in our future, there is no way that I would of believed I would of ever felt the way I have about you over the last few months, so I know that feelings do change, and I believe that I want to love you enough to be able to get back to that place.

I am absolutely not ok with a 3 person marriage, and saving our marriage would require absolutely no contact with him, not even risking seeing him in a crowd at a meeting. I am not flexible on that boundary, I want my wife to be my person, and me hers, and I'm not willing to have another person in the mix.

My only other boundary would be transparency (until trust is rebuilt), complete openness to goings on, no secrets, no hiding things...

Reconciling would literally require starting from scratch, not going back to "usual", but going slow and deliberate.

I'm not asking if you Love me right now, I'm not asking if you even like me right now, I'm asking if you want to love me again and do what's needed to spend the next 40 years of our life together.

[Coconut]

And a response close to what I expected...

To answer your question, no, I don't want to be divorced. However, the only way to save our marriage is for me to quit the fire department & give up something I love. It always comes back to that. I didn't want this. The situation has come to this.

You & Son were my world until you stopped being you. I don't really feel like I know who you are anymore. I realize you're hurt & I've thought long and hard about how I would act if the roles were reversed. I would be hurt & angry but I could never do or say some of the things that you've done & said to me over the last few months & specifically the last few weeks. I don't know how to get passed that.

You continue to act like I slept with him & you say the most hateful things to me. Things that will stay with me forever. At this point you are not the only one who would have a lot of forgiving to do & things to get passed. Do I want our family to be broken up, absolutely not but do I want to give up something that I've worked so hard for & live the rest of my life under a microscope in order to try to prove to you that I'm not doing anything wrong? I don't know that I can do that.

I definitely don't know how I feel about you right now. A part of me will always love you because you've been the great love of my life but I definitely don't like you right now.

[Si_07]

Hi Coconut, I have a letter that I wrote to my wife but haven't given it to her similar to your text. A mutual friend of ours who has had numerous conversations with my W doesn't think she is still involved with the OM. My W's last words before she moved out where that she didn't enter this marriage to split up. I know at the time it was probably just for her own mind rather than a proper apology. I have been torn about giving it to her and reading you do this has shifted the balance a little again. I am currently working out my plan for our house and her piano, I guess that is what makes me think about giving her the letter. Does she really want this before I move forward with selling the piano and deciding if I sell the house.

I don't have any advice for you, sorry since I feel in similar position as yourself. I also feel my W is similar to yours, hurt by actions and things I have said but still not recognising her part in what is needed to move forward as a family.

I have been away on vacation with the kids for the past 3 weeks, so I do need to read back on your story.

[cbtdad]

Cnut!
I think you did the right thing in your situation. You are in a place of unknown and just want some sort of guidance from her on her thoughts. I think its strong of you to share the feelings you did with her. Her response to me is something that says this isn't over. But unless she gives up academy it is over for you. I think that is completely fair at this point. I'm not sure where to go from here, but I do think you took a good step in the right direction either way.

[Coconut]

Si, I will go back and read your sitch as well and respond directly...

CBT, my doppelgänger, I agree. My mind is set on divorce, I know that without major major changes from W, we will end up there anyway, I just wanted to let her know the door isn't locked... I'm really looking forward to moving away and my family fully supports me doing what is best for me.. But if the chance is there to save my M, and for it to be good, I wanted to let her know I'm still willing. I teared up a little when I read her response, but I feel it is still very selfish.. When comparing a 8 yr M to a volunteer position she been in for 5 months, she still chooses the volunteer position, but if that's her choice, then I know I must move forward. I'm willing to do the work, but not by myself.

As for her saying she's tried to think how she'd react, I think her response is laughable. Before my bachelor party she told me that she didn't want me to go to a strip club, so when my party decided a bachelor party decided a strip club was in order, I stayed in the van with my cousin while they went to a strip club, and when my bachelor party decided to have a waitress call her and say she should let me go to a strip club (which I didn't go to) she was hurt and said she wanted to call off the wedding (even though I didn't go or want the female waitress to call)... Not to mention when back then she asked me if I thought a co-worker was cute I said yes, she was overly jealous and asked me not to talk to her, I told her I have been friends with that co-worker for years and if something was going to happen it already would have, she was livid so I backed off, but yet she indicates she would not be completely devastated if I had an A after 8 years... It's almost laughable.

Anyway, I signed the listing agreement and am allowing her to move forward with that, I'm not going to do any work towards selling the house, that burden is hers to bear.

[sandi2]

I really think being physically separated and not having contact, could go a long, long way in this case.  She has said from day one that she didn't want a D.  I understand the reasons behind your decision, and I certainly don't blame you.  I just believe this M could be saved if the two of you were to spend sufficient time away from each other......and more importantly, if she would choose her MR over the firefighting.  

She's right.....too much has been said.  Nothing has been resolved, and now she's going to say she can't forgive what you have done & said.  You have given her ammunition to fire back at your head.   

Since you work together, I think you should find another place to work.  Maybe moving to another location would be good for you.  Whatever, I think you need to go completely dark on her.  When her fantasy crumbles, she may find you and want to try again. It may take a couple of years, and you may or may not be interested.

I don't think she is going to leave the academy!  She has made that point very clear!  If she left anytime soon, she would be so bitter at you, that the MR wouldn't have much of a chance.  I am going even further to say that I have doubts the M can reconcile as long as she's connected in any way to the FF's.  I think she is so caught up in that world, that it feeds every emotional need she has, currently.  I'm saying that even if OM moved to another country, I don't think it would cure her love affair with the whole firefighters family thing.  I don't think it's just about OM.  I think she was drawn to him b/c he's a FF!  I'd be concerned that even when she and OM end their A.......she'll be finding her next FF lover.  As long as she's in that tight little world....I believe it's a strong, romantic temptation. I don't think it's just the OM/affair that is her addiction.  

Remember the night she lied about studying, and she was at the station fooling around with a couple of other FF.  You didn't see her doing anything openly wrong.....but she LIED about it.  You have said several times how pretty she is, and I have to wonder if it were all women hanging out at the station if she'd be staying that late at night, just kicking a ball around......and flirting....I mean, talking to the guys.  When a woman is married and has a sixteen year old boy and a H at home......why would she go to the office and work all day, then go to the station and "study" till very late......if she was not getting some type of attention she wanted?  If I recall, you were watching from a distance, right?  So, yeah, I think she's caught up and having an emotional fantasy affair in the world of firefighters........and she's getting something in return. Whatever it is, she has chosen it over her M and family.

 

   

[RSG]

As usual, Sandi says it well. I can see you still have plenty of love left for this woman, but you cannot accept the possibility of being hurt again. Yes, your W seems to have an idea she wants you too and that your anger and actions turned her off. I see how you believe that's selfish, you DID act out but why? Because she lied, was still in an A while trying to reconnect, hid it, lied when confronted, created elaborate scenarios to go see the dbag and doesn't have much if any remorse about it.

I am glad you made the effort as CBT said, and Sandi is probably right about moving our and cutting contact. That said, I get your choice. We all have an irrevocable boundary and she crossed yours.....

[Altair]

Just the fact we are talking about firefighters i think is interesting. They are, by definition, a fantasy of women, the fantasy 'rescuers'. (please, if there are any real firefighters here, forgive me and hold your fire)
I get it. Firefighter calendars are very sexy. But the reality is, what?the fantasy of seeing them sitting around a station doing nothing, getting flirted with, waiting for action.
I like Sandi's advice. When the fantasy is strong, you can't really compete with that, right? I'm with someone right now who thinks that dating/f****ing/whatevering other women is going to help him understand who he is and what women are attracted to him and why he does what he does. Ridiculous, right? All fantasies, and there we are, in reality, jobs and busted marriages and kids and bills. I probably will be told to go dark and let him go too, i'll find out tonight, actually.
Point being, we can't compete with fantasies. I think they need to feel the cold hard stainless steel seat of reality before people like us are even appreciated. and that will take some serious time.