The reason I believe the A has ended is not only the early July breakdown, but the way she talks to and treats me. It's getting better, softer, more respectful.
RSG - Sorry to throw cold water on this but I had the same belief for the same reasons and was very very wrong. You might be right but without her actually saying it's over and being transparent you could also be wrong.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
The reason I believe the A has ended is not only the early July breakdown, but the way she talks to and treats me. It's getting better, softer, more respectful.
RSG - Sorry to throw cold water on this but I had the same belief for the same reasons and was very very wrong. You might be right but without her actually saying it's over and being transparent you could also be wrong.
RSG - I gotta back up Andrew P on this one. My S went down end of Feb. By May, she was telling me things like "I enjoy being single" "free of relationships", spoke about him in past tense. Also the attention towards me went up, asked me on dates, made long term plans. I thought it was done, but then in late June she brought him up while her & I were having wine one night and in just one of her sentences she slipped, she us the word "is" to describe him and not "was". I caught and my suspicion grew from there until a week later when I found out dude and her were still on. Now, possible she did eject for a bit and then restart - I have not cared enough to ask.
"There is no more important fight than the one for ourselves. Keep on winning." Ginger1, Read her newbies. BD: Feb '16 D: Mar '17 Piecing: Putting the self back together was my piecing. S6
Looks like I missed the party! I don't have much to add to what's been said about the WW/WAW/MLC, other than telling you why I started referring to the WW and separating them from the WAW, (and I leave the MLCers in Wonka's capable hands).
We have both been here several yrs (Wonka longer than me) and experienced what some of you may call "the other side of the fense", meaning we were not writing as the spouse left behind.
Over the years, I had observed something in the threads from LBH'S describing their W. I also noticed the difference in how a former LBS would advise (those who did not have a wayward spouse), and those LBS who had horrific wayward spouses. Those who did not experience what it was like to have a WS, usually gave what I call a much softer approach.......and, to me, it seemed as if the newcomers were left feeling as if everything was their fault....and that they had to be good enough, and work hard enough, to win back the WS.....which, of course, doesn't work with waywards. This started to bother me a lot. So, I started trying to refer to those WAW's who were in an A......as to make some type of distinction. However, I knew that a person could be wayward without necessarily being in an A. The waywardness was already in the heart before she had an A. That's why I think it is important for the H to understand the root cause (resentment, disrespect, etc.)
One day I noticed a newcomer who referred to herself as a WAW. Since I tried to notice whenever the board had a WAW, I looked at her thread. She was given advice as though she was the WAW, and she even thought she qualified b/c she had walked away from her H. However, she left b/c her H was abusive. She did not leave b/c she was wayward or in a MLC. That is when I decided to speak up about the mindset of a wayward wife. I had lived it, and I had seen years of little clarification here on the subject (at least, from the inside).........so, I just started talking about it.
There are women who leave the MR who are not wayward or having a MLC. Just as Wonka can tell you how quickly she can spot a case of MLC, I can usually see pretty quickly if the W is wayward. There are some cases that I have to wait for the H to give more information and description. Not that I can read hearts, mind you, but b/c the outward display is eerily similar with other WW's. As we call it, their "script". I think it is b/c of the anger, and as Wonka said, the contempt she feels for her H, and how her mindset works. She may put on a front for a while, but her attitude toward her H eventually spells it out.
In most of the threads from H's, they are reluctant to accept the idea that their W is wayward. Most think it applies only if she's in an affair, and no H wants to believe his W would be involved in an A. Waywardness is born in the heart......before it is manifested in the actions.
FWIW, I have also noticed (IRL & the board) how the majority of WW's are M to a man who has the nice-guy syndrome. Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't think so. Anyway, it seems to be the pattern I see in newcomer threads.
(Well, aren't you glad I didn't have much to add?)
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
This has been all very interesting to read. I see that my h is without a doubt a wayward, acting like a teenager. I have questioned at times wether there is or isn't a mlc element to the situation. I think because we married and started a family young sometimes this leads him to freak out at the fact he's no longer young free and single. Idk. It doesn't help that waywards surround themselves with genius friends that tell him "oh just divorce her".
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
Waywardness is born in the heart.... the majority of WW's are M to a man who has the nice-guy syndrome.
This really resonates with me. I think because my W has poor impulse control (BPD-like condition), being paired with me -- whom she's accused of being overly self-controlled, smothering/mothering/suffocating/sacrificing -- she's had to exert hell of a lot of self-control on herself to "keep up" with my role in the marriage. So when she finally decided she can't do it any more, there were years of frustration pent-up inside her that is fueling the waywardness, the rebellion, in her heart.
It's of course, a mixed bag. I think there is a rational part of her mind that sees the good in me and the good in our marriage. But it's mostly covered by the fog of rebellion and hope for independence and freedom from a suffocating husband, and the promise of excitement from new men out there.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
Andrew, you and CT are right on. Regardless of what the truth is, I should be treating her AS IF she's doing it until she proves otherwise.
I'm wondering if I even need to see a "limited contact" email or if I should just do it. And when she asks about it the next time she drops him off, just say I think I need to start treating you like we're separated and that we contact too much when S is at home?
Me: 35 W: 32 S: 4 T: 6 M: 4 Physical Separation official: 5/21 Currently: DR/DBing, Focusing on me and son
Cheating on a good person is like throwing away a diamond and picking up a rock.
I think I may have been confusing detaching with reducing contact. I'm coming to see that detaching and contact are not necessarily the same, and the more effective ways to detach do not directly affect the amount of contact.
Detaching is not about how many words you say, but what emotions you communicate to your W. So, simply reducing contact does communicate something. But a more effective way to detach is to keep up roughly the same amount of contact as before, but demonstrate through those channels of communication that your emotions are detaching from the old W and divesting from the old marriage.
I'm not sure exactly how to do that. I will have to ponder. I welcome all-a-y'all's thoughts on this.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
The question is how do you do this? I think it's very much what I have been doing. Stay happy, confident and don't let anything they say trip you up on the occasions you do speak. Biggest thing I am trying at the moment is to appear as if I have moved on and don't want my W when we interact.
For a long time I looked like a pitiful little puppy and that's not H material. Just visualize yourself as someone only a fool would leave and always be that person around your W and play it cool.
I think that's about all we can do. Add mystery don't give anything up and be vague when she asks what you have been doing or where you are going.
I am no expert by a long way but I think these methods are working.
ME- 31 W-25 T-5 M-3 D2 ILYBNILWY and moved out - FEB16 W seeing someone else - JUL16
Not so sure about deliberately adding mystery. That seems phony to me. Oh, but wait, I just posted something on your thread saying being phony (appearing like you've moved on) is OK! I guess being phony is second best to being genuinely OK.
I'm on an overnight trip to the beach w/ my S (D is on a different trip). I have taken my kids away from home on brief trips w/o my W, but this is the first time since D was initiated. Everything reminds me of coming here as a family. My S is having a great time, but it breaks my heart to think of what he doesn't fully realize is happening to our family. I feel like I should be angry at my W, but it just feels damn surreal, like I've stepped into an alternate universe. If I just picked up the phone and called her and gave her a full rundown of our day and ended it with "Love you, good night" it would just feel normal.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
