Being there to help v going dark:balance

[Surfer]

Thanks Doodler. Keep doing that but it keeps leading me to he easy answer - a bar and this then leaves me with a hangover induced anxiety so I have to be very careful. I am sure it's pretty common to self-mediate a bit in these scenarios but I need to take a break. Could be controversial and have a soft drink or just one or two of course. What did you do to keep active of an evening?

[Surfer]

[quote][/quote]

hey surfer,

Building on what doodler says, you need to change your actions.

Disregard the mediation, insanely difficult. But you need to take a step back, take all of your emotions out of what is happening and just look at it, at face value.

I learnt a great phrase... Sometimes when you think that everything is falling apart around you, it is actually just falling into place.

Also, your WAW does not care about you, or your childrens feelings. You need to do the same for her feelings.

[Surfer]

DDJ Thanks for the support. Do you mean disregard the mediation as don't worry about it or don't go to it/agree to it? Why do you think disregard it?

How can I say it's all falling into place? I know what you mean - do you really feel that?

How do you not care for her feelings whilst validating? Observe them but don't 'feel' them?

Thanks,

[MoveFrwd]

How do you not care for her feelings whilst validating?

Two different things here, I think.

On the one hand, you do want to understand her feelings. You want to validate them. You can accept and acknowledge her anger, her sadness, her fears, etc.

On the other hand, you cant let her feelings dictate your actions. Dont do something because you think it will cause anger or sadness or fear. You have to live your life without worrying too much about how she might feel or react.

[Surfer]

I am trying not to contact my WAW and GAL. However I am desperately missing the kids. Presumably it's okay to call when I miss them provided I just speak directly to them and don't engage in conversation with the WAW - and only engage with her when she raises something with me? Got to be careful, I am missing 'company' but I don't want to engage inappropriately - emailing, calling etc.

[liono]

I'm having really similar feelings to you right now, surfer. Feel like things are falling apart. Hoping they're more "falling into place" but I think you can't know that until it's all done. Just have to do what works and hang on for the ride.

My D8 heard me (after D8 said I sounded cross – I was; and taking my balls back)

IMHO, I think that was a great thing to do. The thing I think about with my D4 + D6 is they will find someone like me. So do I want them to find a "nice guy" who they can trample all over and lose respect for? Or someone with balls? Of course it's a balance because you don't want a monster either but you get it...

it is very confusing now – listen or not, when and what to etc.

I don't really have any good "advice" just thoughts based on what I've seen myself. I think it can be very powerful to be able to listen to W's concerns, complaints, whatever and demonstrate your strength by simply validating. And not trying to problem-solve or defend or anything.

At the same time, you obviously shouldn't wait around like a puppy just to get the chance to demonstrate how awesome you are. My advice would be treat it as if a casual acquaintance wanted to talk. Am I free right now and am I in the mood to listen? Sure great, I'll listen. Or am I busy? Am I tired and not in the mood? Would I rather go hang out with the kids? Then that's what I'm going to do, because I have my own life.

[Surfer]

Thanks liono. Great advice. Sometimes I think it all boils down to pretty simple stuff - which you often forget when your anxiety is on the rise. Simple things like get out of their way and give less of sh!t. But be nice and control your interactions - don't let anger or frustration come to the surface - whatever they do to provoke it (and they will as you must be seen as the bad man)! Don't be pu55y whipped but do listen and validate. If she is out of order in her interactions - tell her and close it down. Finally do things and enjoy your life and children. I guess there is a tendency to over-think when anxious.

[sandi2]

Surfer, you and I see the whole gender blender roles very much alike. Some couples may succeed, but I have definitely seen the downside. Mostly, it is not equal chores at all, and the results are one spouse being very spoiled & selfish.

When you were describing how your W talked so much, it reminded me of something I read years ago. The W has a need to say xxxxxx amount of words in a day. But a man just hears xx amount of words in a day. (I can't remember the exact quote). I just remembered wondering what on earth a couple is to do about this situation.

I know a woman who never shuts her mouth! Even when she gets laryngitis from overuse of the vocal cords.......she will try to whisper it out. This would drive me insane. Her H actually D her, and most people think it's b/c she wouldn't shut up and give the man a few moments of silence. (True story).

Based on your account of the things you've done to improve communication and the problems within the MR, I think you've tried to do what you could to resolve the problems.

Do the two of you have a schedule set to which parent has the kids on which days?

Considering the marital history and you doing what you could to save the M...........and seeing how your W is today...........do you want her back? I am sure you miss the family life and home, but would you want her back if she never changed?

Some men lose focus and just want their W back, regardless. I encourage H's not to reconcile with a WW until he sees changes in her behavior/attitude/actions. Certainly don't take her back if she's in an A and displaying unacceptable behaviors of a W and mother of two children.

As for the interaction with her now, I suggest you keep it based on that of a nosy neighbor. You wave and smile as you are walking on. You don't stick around to visit. If the nosy neighbor starts asking questions about your time and whereabouts and what you did and with whom............you politely disengage and move onward.

Your children should be the only thing you have connected with her (as long as she's showing signs of waywardness). I suggest you have a window frame of time where each of you may contact the children every day they are with the other parent. It is better not to wait till bedtime, b/c that tends to be an emotional time for little ones away from a parent. Makes bedtime more difficult.

[Surfer]

Sandi. Thanks.

It is comforting to hear someone validating what I have done to improve things from my side. Thank you. My wife also feels she has tried everything (said everything). She does not see that the only things she has 'done' has been negative - raging, shouting, spending time acting like an unmarried rebelling wife separating being most obvious, etc. Perhaps this is the fog as such. It perhaps makes a WW blind?

We do have a schedule set. Every other weekend and every Weds. for me. It doesn't feel anything like 50/50 (as it is not) but we decided to do that and see how it goes. I believe she will be flexible around that - or that's what she says. I also take them to school every morning. She drops them off so it is easier for her to get to work. I did think about dropping the morning school run (due to cake eating), but in fairness, it would feel like a vexatious move -any though? Also, she would just get a friend to do it and I am mindful that the kids might feel abandoned. They need to come first.

You are quite right I do want her back but I want her to change. However she is so stubborn that she will most likely not. I would be grateful to understand what makes a WW (not sure she is WW or WAW) change their stance. It has to come from inside but, as I say, I really struggle to see her changing.....

[sandi2]

You are quite right I do want her back but I want her to change. However she is so stubborn that she will most likely not. I would be grateful to understand what makes a WW (not sure she is WW or WAW) change their stance. It has to come from inside but, as I say, I really struggle to see her changing.....

Stubborn pride is something that WW's tend to have in common. That is why I believe it is so important for her to experience humility. I don't think you will see much heart felt changes, until you see humbleness in your W. Once that old stubborn pride crashes, and she feels the remorse and shows humility in her attitude, speech, behavior, & action.........then the MR's chances of healing shoots to the sky!

As long as everything basically goes the WW's way..........and nothing causes her fantasies to crumble, then the chances of her changing her mindset is not so good. I believe they have to lose something, due to their decision to end the M. I believe their should be consequences in life. A WW may leave her H b/c she no longer wants to be his W.........however, she still expects wifely privileges. She wants the H to be available whenever she needs something. She thinks she should still call all the shots on everything about the kids. She thinks the H should be grateful she'd let him be her friend. In everything.........no matter what it is, she looks to see what's in it for her.

There are some threads about the WW, what distinguishes them from the WAW (IMHO), and the process of them coming out of the wayward mindset. In your own description of your W, I would say she's definitely wayward.