LandC, I am going to post on your thread, as not to confuse anyone.
SadHub, hello, and thank you for the prayers! I want to make my over to your thread soon.
Phoebe, well I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone that Hs that run to OW have similarities! That is why I started this thread, because in my very limited research, I do think there is a "type" of guy that is at greater risk for an A. The nice guy who instead of standing up to his W, grows to resent her over time, then runs to OW, and justifies his A by pointing at W and rewriting history. In his skewed version of the M, he is being taken for granted, and did everything for her, when in actuality, it was H that should have grown a pair, stood up to her, and relied on himself for his own happiness.
But we cannot control the nice guy! We have got to let him go and figure this out on his own. They cannot expect other people to make them happy--W or OW--and so until they learn to look at themselves, they will continue to run. P, I have no doubt your H will come to this conclusion at some point.
I think nice guys greatest challenges are the deep-rooted mommy issues. He was eager to please her, what he did wasn't good enough, and she emasculated him and raised him to be a good boy. So it's no wonder we fall hard for these nice guys--they are not like other men! They do not go out with the guys and all the Ws friends think they are the best. You have the best H! Hes so nice! Hes a great dad! Heard that all the time! What we don't see, is what's happening on the inside--the low self esteem, the strong desire to please others, and the transference of anger towards mom to W. They are suffocating in fulfilling this image and don't have a safe outlet to be the man that is buried underneath.
Wow. I should go back to school and get a degree psychology! Kidding. No thank you!
Someone on another thread mentioned the TED talk on infidelity. I watched it awhile back and recommend it too.
-Blu
Last edited by Cristy; 05/25/1602:19 PM. Reason: As stated in our OnLine Community Board Rules, we do not allow recommendations of non-DivorceBusting books / websites / blogs etc
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I hope that you are well, and it's definitely nice to see that the WAS does come back. I skimmed through your posts, and in one of the them I noticed you mentioned how when your H first brought up D, you had a gut feeling that you knew it was a mistake. I just wanted your advice on how you fought that gut feeling. My H and I have had so many ups and downs, and there were times where he acted happy and like he wanted to be with me, and there were other times where he just said he wanted out. Of course I did things incorrectly and convinced him to stay (which he now says was me forcing him to stay)..but in his heart I honestly feel like he knew it wasn't right, which is why he decided to stay. So we separated once last year, got back together a bit too quickly, and then separated again in November 2015. After we separated in November, we started MC, and things were going really well, then despite our progress, in April he said he wanted to go through with a D. He had an EA for most of last year, and I'm not 100% sure the OW is out of the picture. So he gave me paperwork about a week ago, and I went ahead and signed and gave them back to him. As far as I know, he has not officially filed them with the court. So this whole time, even after finding out about the EA, I kept fighting to save my marriage, and the reason I did so was because of the gut feeling you're familiar with. I know my H is suffering emotionally, but I don't think D is the solution to our problems. I honestly feel like if he ever got into a serious relationship again, it would end the same way our marriage ended. So I've been worried this gut feeling I've been having is refusal of me accepting the fact that I am getting D, and I'm afraid my gut feeling gives me false hope, which at the end of the day, just causes more depression for me.
Sorry this post became lengthy, I was trying to keep it short. But if you have any advice you can share with me on this, I would truly appreciate it. Hope your marriage continues to improve.
-Ahmeds
_________________ Me: 29 H: 30 M: 4 years EA Confirmed: 1/2015 (Unsure if EA is over because they were on and off last year) Separated: 11/2015 D Paperwork Signed: 5/2016
You make this sound like all nice guys are the same which would put all males on this forum under this description.
H-46 XW-38 T-7 M-6 S-9,8,8,6,4 S 11/30/15, I filed 12/8/15 EA 2/1/16 D dismissed 3/24/16 PA 3/18/16 confirmed 4/22/16 XW files for D 4/1/16 - D final 11/17/16 Finally moving forward...
Unbowed, I wrote you a response and somehow it didn't get posted, so I will rewrite it.
ahmeds, I will check out your thread and read about your sitch. I'll respond there.
Jim, no I am not. We are specifically referring to a book, however I am trying to adhere to the board rules. In the book, it describes a specific kind of man, and in the book they discuss why they are at a greater risk of having an A. This has nothing to do with simply being a nice person.
-Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Blu, you continue to describe my H to a tee. Never went out with other guys to do "guy things," people-pleaser, displacement of blame, etc..
I can't decide if I should go find the book, or if it's just not worth bothering with at this point. I've pretty much given up on reading any of the books I bought about relationships. H is so far gone that it doesn't seem worth getting mired down in all the would have, could have, should haves. Maybe if he makes another appearance in my life I'll give it a shot. Right now, that's not feeling very likely. I wonder what he's even doing these days, or even where he is.
Tho only things I'm reading these days are my grief recovery handbook and some random fiction books. Every time I tried looking at the R books, I just felt worse. My therapist lent me one that he likes, and I read it, but all it did was remind me of exactly what I no longer have - an emotionally attached spouse.
I hope that you're having a good day, Blu.
H: 44, Me: 45 Married: 20 y Together: 25 y no kids Walk away: 12/15 Asked for temp separation 12/25/15 PA confirmed 3/16 (apparently neither the first, nor the last PA he has had) H filed for D 5/16
Phoebe, I just realized that there is more than one book on this, and I may be confusing some people! I have not read the other one. ... I am not sure if you should read it. What does your gut tell you? I guess I am one that thinks that more info is always a good thing. However, will reading it be a trigger for you? Will it make you think more about him and over analyze things? Will that be hurtful for you? If so, maybe wait on it.
I just want to clarify that I am not stereotyping men that are nice people. I am simply referring to a type of man that fits into several categories that I have read about. Unfortunately, those categories can lead to depression, low self esteem, and having As and failed Rs. I think the more we can understand why this is happening, and the more these men can identify these patterns in themselves, the sooner they can heal and make better choices for themselves. My H has been working hard on this--it is very slow and difficult process--and I see many positive changes and hope. I think if he can recover and gain his independence, we can ultimately have a stronger M. I am also learning to accept and love the changes.
Unbowed, I wrote you a message and lost it! So I will try and remember. You have really had me thinking more about this. Although now that I see there is more than one book, I am wondering if we are referring to the same one? Trying not to break board rules and title it here.
You asked what my 180s were that he noticed most. I think it was when I finally learned to DB more consistently--to create space for myself, GAL, and when I was thinking about moving on without him. Just overall detaching and focusing on me and kids. When I got upset and angry, or when I ignored him, it further justified in his mind that he didn't want to be with me. He could further point the finger and blame me for my behavior. When I left him alone and started to plan moving on without him, he then got scared of losing me and started to realize he missed me.
He also had to come to these conclusions himself. He did a lot of rewriting of history and blamed me; he told me that I made him unhappy, I took him for granted, and that he deserved better. What he was doing was running from our life together and looking elsewhere for happiness. What he wasn't doing was looking inside himself, and before he left he didn't tell me clearly what he wanted and needed all those years. He was trying to be a nice guy and a people pleaser.
Well it didn't take him long to realize that he was not happy with OW. He was miserable with her. He was scared to leave her because she was his only friend left. She also told him what he wanted to hear. It was all very superficial and his same personal issues resurfaced in that R. So, he really couldn't blame me for the mess that he created. The longer he has been out of that sitch--over a year now--the more he sees what a mess he was and that he never loved her. She is a trainwreck.
When he came back around it was because his life was crashing around him rapidly. I was started to move on, he missed me, the family together, and things feeling normal. He had been scared to come back because 1. I was angry and pushed him away, 2. He was scared I would never forgive him, and 3. He was scared to admit that he had made a terrible mistake. There was a pride issue as well. So when we had normal interactions and he saw that I was cordial, not interested any more, and moving on without him, that is when he was terrified and did his own 180. It happened fast that he came running back--in 1-2 weeks--and in my gut I knew that was it.
So when we started working on things we both read the same book. He could relate to something on every page! He could have been president of the nice guy club. This was a huge eye opener and he has been working on it ever since. Like I said, it has been good for both of us. I don't want to be married to a doormat and he needs his own life and identity outside of our family. He is still learning out all this is going to work and I am still learning to love him.
Unbowed, you mentioned that you are a recovering nice guy and that your W may not be taking well to it, is that correct? Did you start your work after she started to ask for separation or before? Is there any possibility of an A with her? I think each of those things could have a different affect on her, depending on your sitch. I will read up on your thread as well!
-Blu
Last edited by Cristy; 05/25/1602:17 PM. Reason: As stated in our OnLine Community Board Rules, we do not allow recommendations of non-DivorceBusting books / websites / blogs etc
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Blu, you have described my "nice guy" perfectly in your description. Just as Phoebe did. He's such a nice guy that he is D me because "he made me miserable" and D me is probably "MY best shot at happiness". I "just need to realize that I don't really like him".
I'm with Phoebe, though. Do I get the book and say, "yep, that's him!"? I'm still holding out hope, even though I believe we'll see this D through. Since our house sold and closes in less than a month and I can move into my apartment in 2 weeks, I'm thinking NC (for real) will truly happen. I'm interested in how that will play out though.
He's had excuses to make contact with me and me with him with all of the house stuff, but that will be over with soon. I truly have no idea if he calls sometimes just to check on me, using the house or finances as an excuse. Other times, if I bring up something he promised he'd do, especially if it has to do with money, he feels pressured and is not Mr. Nice Guy anymore.
I will be able to move forward then. What were some of the reasons your H gave for his behavior and leaving when it happened? What did he say they were when he came out of the fog when he came back? I guess I'm interested in hearing the differences between what he let you know and what was really going on in his head, or if there were any?
And yes, you should go back and get a psyche degree...that's kinda what I'm shooting for, LOL.
M-51 H-54 2D-27 and 25 M-26 yrs Bombshell and IHS 7-29-15 He moved out 10-3-15 D filed 1-27-16 D final 10-27-16
Cil, are you really going back to school for that? Haha. I have NOOOO interest in that. I deal with enough psych issues every time I walk into work. Sigh. People are confusing and it's terribly complicated to try and sort out these messes. Honestly, I am moving into the space of not wanting to see therapists, not wanting to analyze our sitch anymore, but to just move on to bigger and better things. I am finally in a place where I want to GAL and want to detach! I need to accept that yeah, H is here, it's not perfect, it never will be, but I accept what happened, and to move forward.
I also feel like I need to be careful giving advice and feedback here. Everyone's sitch is complicated and different. I am no vet and no expert. I have managed to come out on the other side--or am making my way there--but that was not because I did some amazing job at DB, it was also the situation that I was in. In fact, I blew it all the time. I went off on that man so many times! I cried, yelled, sent nasty texts, then cried, pleaded, and then to make up for it would ignore him. So yeah, I can tell you now that that really doesn't work and it will also make you feel worse about yourself. Don't do that people.
There were differences between what I saw H doing versus what he was thinking while he was in the fog and off with OW. He told me he was done, wanted D, and that he was moving on. I pursuaded him somewhere in the middle to leave her, but it only lasted for about 6 weeks and he was a complete mess. We never worked on things. He felt it would never work and he ran back. He did not show me much doubt. He acted like he was trying to protect me and never wanted to give me false hopes, so he didn't come to me or throw me crumbs. Once he came back he was all in. He has since told me that he was full of doubt the entire time, always knew it was wrong, and didn't think that R would ever go anywhere. He never told me that. But his actions, his actions showed his doubt. ... Isn't that what they say?
-Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
