I almost had myself convinced I'd be better off without her.... Almost. Then seeing her crying at mediation, it all came back, bad!!! I reverted, really bad.
Even with the crazy stuff she is saying, maybe some day she will pull her head out? Is it possible? I am NOT the monster she thinks I am. I was (and still am) a great father. She told social services that around the time she was filling out the OFP!! She told my mom that recently. Yet still has to stipulate stuff in the D about proving myself? I was a good husband. Not perfect, but good. No way will she do "better" than me, not with all her flaws. Will she ever realize? Will she come crawling back? Or would she rather someone with the same mental age as herself? In our area, it's not hard to find.
I totally understand there are no guarantees. What are the odds? No one will say what they are. No one will say what percentage work it out. From the stories I have heard personally, I listed in a previous post... Lots that left for an A. Almost 1/2 went crawling back. I still don't know if there's an A with my W... And it's bothering me. I fear I will never know. I fear I may find out. I fear that I am being afraid for nothing and driving myself crazy and maybe she isn't. I fear I will stand and she won't return. I fear I will stand, we try again I'll just resent her as always. I fear I won't find someone else.
Throw some scenarios out there: 1. She isn't having an A, and returns, we stay together 2. She is having an A, and returns, I won't take her back if this is the case 3. She doesn't come back because I moved on 4. She tries to come back even though I already moved on 5. She doesn't come back even though I chose to "stand" 6. She comes back, and I can't stand being around her
1, 4, 6 at least allow complete closure
6 options. Even if it's an even split between the options (17%) there's only one option that works. Therefore, the odds aren't good.
I want her to see me happy... Happier than I ever was with her. I want that to sting, a lot! S11 already said that she said she think Inwill be happier without her. But I want her to come to the conclusion that maybe SHE was the problem, not me after all. I think she may already know that deep inside. I think she has said that to me when we were together. When we were together, that was NEVER the goal, and I never agreed with her when she said it. I wanted her to own her part, which was a challenge. I ALWAYS owned my part.
I'll have spent over $20k plus on a D, how do I let that go? Will have to spend more to replace the stuff she gets. More cost on refinancing the house. And if we end up together, we'll just have to get rid of stuff. But the biggest thing, all the pain she caused me and the kids.... For what?
OFP, I think you and I are at the same stages in all of this. Your last post was almost if I'd written it, except I wouldn't have written it as well.
Here's my observations and input FWIW.
You were doing well until you saw her in person. I know what this does to me each week when I drop D3 off to WW. It kills and re-opens the wound. This must have been your first time seeing her in a while so it must have been incredibly difficult. (for both of you likely).
It's clear that after seeing her you are torturing yourself with the analysis. Time to re-DETACH for your own good. Remember detachment means being ok regardless of the 6 scenarios above, with or without WW.
In your sitch I know how hard it it because of the finality of the OFP and the utter lack of control that you are placed in.
But control what you can now - YOU - and your mental health. Keep being the best dad. Keep up the GAL even if you don't have your stuff yet. Call you friends and family - one each night.
Focus your pain and suffering into motivation to make yourself even better than you were before. That's the best gift you can give yourself and the person you end up with.
I feel that once you are though this pain you will realize the OFP was a blessing in disguise for 2 reasons from my viewpoint:
1) You've been presented the challenge in life to live with something you cannot control. If you make it though this you can make it though the many other challenges in life ahead.
2) Honestly, from what I hear about WW, it's clear it was a bad choice from day 1. You can do so much better. You know have an opportunity to find someone you will be much more compatible with and someone without a history of mental health who will be able to make you happy.
Based on what I've read, truly, I don't think you will have a problem engaging the women of your dreams once you are ready.
For now, focus on one day at a time. Baby-steps in the right direction for yourself. You can do it!
Me37 W33 T:8 M:5 D3 BD 11/2015 EA+PA w boss 12/2015 S 3/2016
Im stronger because I had to be Im smarter because of my mistakes happier because of the sadness Ive known and now wiser because I learned
Thank you again for your insight... I started reading your first post about your sitch and couldn't finish... Drives my paranoia even more. If my W left because she wasn't happy, fine. Even the OFP because of her insecurities, selfish, but is what it is. To leave for OM, that's pretty 5hitty!
You have an interesting way with words, your story is more like an author writing a book!
BD for me was end of October, so very similar timing to yours.
Things weren't great between us, I didn't imagine they would ever change, we'd just continue life like it was. She chose long before we met to not go to an IC for her issues. I didn't pressure her into anything different, it was her choice.
In July I pondered leaving. The female coworker and I were talking some. I knew I would never pursue any type of relationship with her, but it was interesting to talk to a female I could actually connect with. I have a feeling if W wasn't so ridiculously jealous, and allowed me to have female friends, I would have noticed the lack of connection with W and moved on long ago.
I am kicking myself a little, the coworker and I started to connect 2 years earlier... After that she got M'd and had a baby. I missed my opportunity!
One of the activities W and I used to do together, about 10 years ago, we met lots of people. There was a couple. He started cheating on his W. His W was cute, skinny, quiet, good at this mostly male dominated activity also just as my W was. We talked just a little, again I chose to not pursue, and I am somewhat kicking myself now. If I knew it would end up like this!!!
End of August I made a conscious decision to either leave or be happy with things the way they were. I chose to be happy. And I was happy. September was the greatest month of my life because I consciously chose happiness.
Some irony here. What was making me happy in September, was ME. It was not her that made me happy. I was loving life, even though she wasn't a huge part of it anymore. We did fun things together and with the kids, she had other activities outside the house with the kids, it was working ok. i could definitely return to that life when I get my house back... Will that be enough to make me fully happy again?
Sorry, went way off topic there!!!
Yep, I am getting good at torturing myself! I just can't keep my focus on being better off without her. The codependent thing I assume? This has been a problem for me since I was about 15, no idea why, one of the things I am trying to tackle.
I have been texting and calling people... Not compulsively, but only because they aren't always available, or work gets in the way. There is a serious emotional need not being met with friends and family. And a physical one of course too. It's draining!!! Any pointers?
1) Ironic you mention being forced to deal with this uncomfortable sitch... I have thought of that too, it will make me appreciate things more. But I've had enough with being tortured!! I just want some peace!
2) Glad you agree... Reinforcing my opinion on this subject helps. I hope to keep that mentality in my head more and more until it sets in 100%. This is another thing that seems like it will be fixed with a new woman in my life. But then I also realize that would be "needy," not a good start to a new relationship.
OFP, She's having some type of identity crisis and yes, she's a very confused puppy if she can't decide what kind of music, etc., she likes. Also, the statements of needing time and space and needing to find herself could be good indicators that she's met someone or has someone waiting in the wings for her. I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, but we hear this quite often and my xh stated the same things.
I was reading through my thread again... I agreed with most of your post, but not this part. One of the FF's I know has been trying to break off a relationship with a manipulator for 2 years now (has only been dating him for about 4). No other guy in waiting for her. She is an incredibly smart and kind person. She said she told him she wanted time and space. I told her that as a man, what I hear from that is "there is a chance we'll work it out." But I know that was not her intent, she wants to be done, completely.
This adds to my questions of all the theories about MLC. How do these actions vary from someone who just wants out? I can confirm LBS's sure have fog, confusion, etc. I have memories that are disappearing. I am rewriting a biased history to "get over" the heartache some days, and rewriting history other days "romanticizing" it when I am missing her. The person leaving rewrites history to justify to themselves or others why they left. Or to justify an A that they know is morally wrong. These are all intentions, or a side effect of intentions, not a side effect of a trauma from their past. So, I don't buy it... I don't buy the excuses. I don't buy standing.
My perspective... People cheat every day. For selfish reasons. They hope to keep it a secret so they can live a double life until they decide for sure what to do. They lack morals. They lack the ability for independence. They stay in a relationship they aren't happy in for 20 years because they don't have the strength to be alone. Until something comes along that seems better. And when they find out it's not better, when the honeymoon period is over, they want the fall back plan. It's cruel.
The part I do wonder is possibly reality... Did childhood trauma cause a skewed view of the last 20 years? That seemingly innocent things triggered feelings of prior trauma because they felt similar to that prior trauma, with no intent from H or W? That conversations every day were twisted? That things were projected from their past onto the H or W? That resentment built up because they didn't know how to deal with it or let things go? That there is an internal struggle going on? I believe all those things. But even for this person, they have a choice. 1) They can stay and work it out. 2) They can leave with the intent to work it out on their own and see what happens. 3) They can leave for an A.
But at the end of the day, 1) is the answer for someone with true morals, 2) is for people who are truly confused but still have morals, 3) this should be a capital crime
Did temptation overcome their morals? Did they show respect for the LBS? The answer is black and white.
Both of the women I mentioned above that were temptations in my life may have been a better choice for me than my W. I made a choice to not pursue it. My morals are in tact. I considered leaving in July with NO backup plan. I can look in the mirror and be proud of who I am. If I find out W is having an A, I will be embarrassed for choosing someone with her morals.
How do these people having an A look in the mirror? Are they proud of what they see? How do they sleep at night? You would think the guilt would be overwhelming!
I know I look in the mirror and see a good man. I see a man that is not perfect and sins, but honest, sincere, faithful, and not out chasing girls. I may not sleep well right now because of the situation, but I will in the future, and when fully healed and detached will live a great life knowing I was that good man to a woman that didnt appreciate me. I will always have her in my thoughts, prayers, and heart, but that is for me to know. I am a great man that only a fool would have left.
Ralph88 Me 40s W 30s, D5 D3 , M7 T9 2013 B drop 1, EA found 2016 B drop 2, EA/PA? 2/16 Physical Seperation 2/16 I filed for D 4/16 PA Confirmed
Ralph, I hear you.... I stepped away from kids just now, tears were coming, and read your post, and the tears poured out... Thank you for that, it is exactly how I feel right now, I need to let the grieving out!
I actually thought about this very shortly after she left, and didn't think about it again until today.... I don't remember her! I don't remember hardly anything about her. I barely remember her voice, though I can pick it out when I hear it. I heard it at mediation and could tell right away it was her. She caught a typo in the D paperwork, happened to be the exact same line I was reading at exact same time... Felt like such a weird coincidence.
I barely remember what she looks like, even shortly after when I look at pics of her. Once in a while I look at a pic and barely recognize her.
I spent some time thinking about it when I noticed this right after BD. And couldn't figure out why. Even now I don't know why. I wondered if something inside me is blocking her out to block out the pain? I have a memory problem? That maybe we were just never that close, never connected? I remember lots and lots of stuff we did together, we did everything together. But I don't remember her being there. I remember spending 3 days together for our 20 year anniversary trip, I don't remember her being there. I don't remember her ever being there, even though she always was.
Newest guess... What I saw and what I thought of her didn't match? I didn't look at her with love and admiration? According to "codependent no more", a codependent person imagines the relationship as something different than it really is. I always romanticized the relationship? If I had looked at her for who she really was, I wouldnt have liked what I saw?
Now here's a part where I am going to sound really shallow.... she was NOT attractive, and got worse over the years. I won't give examples, but seeing her naked was a turn-off. Her face was a turn off. Her expressions looked stupid. Oh wow, I have been holding that in way too long!!! My brother the first time he met her explained her as "icky". Many of my relatives said I could do better. Some of my relatives heard about her through the grapevine and said "I can't believe he is with her" or "that he is with that slut." Luckily everyone in my family took her in anyway, and loved her as part of the family.
Add on top of that, she tried to become the role, at least sometimes. My IC suggested she did EVERYTHING to try to play the role. And then resented me because she felt like a servant, a role she actually chose.
I'd like to say I loved her for who she was. I'm not sure I knew who she was! Apparently SHE didn't know who she was. I was in love with someone who didn't exist!
What is odd... It doesn't make me feel any better. In a way I wish I did get to know the real her. Although I am guessing I wouldn't have liked her if I did.
I have to add one more thing before judgements fly... A relative lately said again I could do so much better than her. It made me feel bad. It brought back my feelings of having always felt bad for her. I NEVER felt like I was better than her.
And I think now it makes me not fully process the hate emotions properly. Every time I think of something I didn't like. I feel bad for her instead. And then bottle it up? I talked to my IC about this some, apparently not enough. I need to find a way to process through those emotions so I can finally be free of them! Both the hate and the sympathy. If anyone has suggestions, I am all ears. I don't think stuffing them down is the answer though.
I wonder if this is fear? Fear of finding out I did judge her. I don't want to be a judgmental person. Fear of having actually loved her and having to let go of a real emotion? Fear of finding out I never did love her would make me a bad person too?
