Revising and putting this as a general post. Sorry for the duplication.
How does one stay positive and upbeat when interacting with WW, to show them they are losing you? I guess i'm just looking for elaboration on Sanid2 rule 12&13. I would love to see any form of temp check.. or maybe I am overlooking them.
It sounds kind of controlling, but I need to control my actions to present the correct message to WW. What she reads from it is up to her.
I really don't compliment her (should I from time to time?), has been a few weeks since last ILY, I don't contact unless about kids. I am trying to go dark, am I doing something wrong if she is not doing temp checks? Maybe just not enough time and need to be patient...
I guess when she does text me about kids, we do sway a few text back and forth but this is very rare. Should I just respond at the absolute minimum or not reply unless absolutely necessary since she gets a read receipt when texts are read(rule 35- I guess having a back and forth is probably not following even though it is about kids, if not necessary I probably shouldn't send it.)
Do you think that a typical WW still wants the safety net of knowing that I am still available even if she is adamant about getting a D and claims to be about to file? I keep telling myself believe nothing that she says and 1/2 of what she does. Easier for me to not believe it when it is something positive, but the negatives I take as an absolute certainty. I think it helps me with detaching.
THIS IS SO HARD!!
Thanks for all the support and guidance, you have no idea how much this means to me.
How does one stay positive and upbeat when interacting, but make them feel they are losing?
This kind of blows my mind (together with how you misinterpreted the meaning behind tempt checks), and I don't know if I am confusing you or exactly what, but if I am, then tell me. Btw, some of these terms we use here on the board, are not used in the book....that I recall. It comes from hundreds and hundreds of true experiences from boad members over the years.
The staying positive & upbeat means that you don't go around with a long, pitiful face, and trying to get sympathy. Don't get a angry, bitter, or sour attitude. Keep yourself built up with positive emotional or spiritual input. The days you feel depressed, fake it till you make it. In spite of what she is doing or saying, you are showing that you will be just fine with or without her. Throwing yourself into GAL will help.
I am not sure how you relate a negative attitude with showing her she could lose you. So, I don't know if this will answer your question. If you let her go and focus on making your own life........she will automatically sense it. You don't have to try to make her feel that she's losing you. When you stop pursuing, she will get the idea. When you stop being available to her, texting her throughout the day/night, GAL, etc., she will begin to see you can move on and that you are going to be just fine.
Look, it's not your mission or responsibility to set out as her punisher. If you will just do what we are suggesting, and allow her to experience reality and consequences of her decisions........she will, hopefully, get her eyes open that she's losing a great guy!
Don't swing too far to one side and going from an emotional basket case to acting like a clown. Stay balanced.
So, about these back & forth texts that are kid related. Just how much texting does it require? Don't use it as your excuse to contact her, b/c she'll see through and know you are pursuing.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I think I just need to have patience and stay the course. I like everyone here, probably just really want ANY sign that the WW is second guessing their choices.
I see what you mean about the attitude as an in all aspect of your day type of thing and not just around spouse. I do need to let her go for my own sanity and have been making some real progress. Not spying on her, not worrying about what she is doing, no drive bys to see if she is home, etc. I wasn't saying to have a negative attitude towards her. I do see now that I will be better after this experience with or without her, and that even if we do reconcile the old marriage is now dead and that I don't want it anymore. I do however want a new better one.
Thank you for reminding me that I am not doing this for her or to control her thoughts or behavior. I am doing this to better myself and grow and this is what creates the results in WW.
Is it ok to give her a compliment from time to time or is this considered pursuing i.e. You look nice today, like your new haircut, your doing great with the kids, etc.
QUESTION: So, about these back & forth texts that are kid related. Just how much texting does it require? Don't use it as your excuse to contact her, b/c she'll see through and know you are pursuing.
ANSWER: These are mainly initiated by her but I think I might be to enthusiastic in carrying the convos. I will be more aloof.
I think I just need to have patience and stay the course. I like everyone here, probably just really want ANY sign that the WW is second guessing their choices.
Not trying to be offensive with this next question. Do you believe you know what the course is, in order to stay on it, or is this your way of saying you don't want to do the hard stuff b/c you would have to leave your comfort zone? Looking for any signs that your WW is second guessing her choices seems passive, IMO. If you were to see some signs she's changing her mind, then you won't have to do this unpleasant stuff, and you can remain in your comfortable nice-guy zone. It's another way of thinking she will eventually come around.
I don't think you should do something outlandish at the moment, b/c you need more DB information under your belt. You can, however, follow the 37 rules, study about detaching, boundaries, setting personal goals, and GAL. Getting yourself ready for harder things to come.
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Is it ok to give her a compliment from time to time or is this considered pursuing i.e. You look nice today, like your new haircut, your doing great with the kids, etc.
She will know why you are complimenting her, and she will see it as pursuing. Do you know why you are wanting to compliment her?
Have you completed one of the books yet? Have something else waiting to read?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Seems life has been busy for me lately. Sorry it took so long, bud, but I'm all caught up now.
sandi is giving you solid advice. You really need to listen to her. I truly valued all the advice she gave me during my time here. I'm going to give you advice from the other side of the fence from her based on my experience as a former LBH. You'll see that they match pretty closely.
1. Your W is having an affair. I don't care what type, because she is infatuated OM. It changes the game. Emotions and rational thought are inversely proportional. Think on that and what it implies.
2. You need to stop doing or thinking about doing things to gain a reaction from her. Even with the best intentions this is you trying to control the situation and pursuing. You might as well go and smack your head repeatedly against a brick wall. They are being noticed. I learned, after all was said and done, that the content of W's FB page changed in reflection to the changes I made, the things I said. All of a sudden there were those stupid picture sayings about infatuation and how it is unhealthy or about losing something important....
3. Find something(s) to live for that is separate from your W, then start doing it. It could be your kids, your job, a new project, a new hobby. Whatever it is, do it. And do it without concern about whether or not your WW knows about it. For me I went extra hard at the bike riding, really focused on being the best father I could be, got the house in a better condition than it has been in 8 years, etc. These absorbed my time and, most importantly, were for ME.
4. Set those L-informed boundaries. I mentioned not being a wet noodle before. I'm going to reinforce that here. Be a man and set enforceable boundaries that establish respect. Right now your WW is cake eating, and you seem to be a waffling wet noodle on these. Just like others here have said, get the best advice you can from multiple Ls and then put them in place. Remember to only set boundaries around things that truly matter. Otherwise you are punishing.
My first boundary with W was informing her I would not live in an open marriage and that decisions were going to be made. The second was I filed for D to protect my son from being thrown in the middle of the A so much, which was L-informed. My third was cutting off the joint car insurance and cell phone, which was L-informed.
Not saying these are your boundaries. And I don't want you to mimic mine, because everything is sitch specific. Setting those boundaries didn't necessarily feel good, but they did command (read the difference between commanding and demanding) respect.
4. Make changes for yourself and truly own that they are for YOU and not her. You, my good man, are still struggling with co-dependence. You were a person before her and should've been one with her (like the rest of us). Time to get back to you, but an even better version of you.
I've railed enough at you It's long since I don't know the next time I can hop on.
You've got some work to do with some big decisions to make. Keep your venting and thoughts here and show her nothing but action.
M: 8.5 T:10 Me:37 W:34 S:6
Retrouvaille and W moves back- 7/31/15 Piecing - 7/4/15 to present
When asked what my course is, I don't really know what that is. Just focusing on my happiness and what's best for the kids, but I think that I have not truly accepted that she is going to do what she is going to do and I cannot control it. I am really struggling with my boundaries.
I think I need to go back to the drawing board and re-read DR. Goal setting and boundaries are something that I struggle with. Hard for me to define what is punishing and what is a true boundary. She hasn't admitted that she feels the way she does about OM. She has actually started to open up about things that bothered her and I am trying to take notes and validate. Really tough not to get angry, but since via text and email I get to take time and read the validations in newcomers and think about my response. I will post some of the recent from her and my replys for peoples feedback and advice. I am going to meet with 2 more L's this week and in the mean time do some studying.
When you say the unpleasant stuff what do you mean? Detaching, boundaries, goals?
I basically have the kids full time when not @ work but trying to GAL with them and also some new hobbies. Mountain Bike and motorcycle are a few on my list. You asked why I want to compliment her. I get to see a genuine smile and she kind of blushes when I do and I guess I just miss it. I won't do it as I am sure that falls under pursuing and not good for my detaching. I got a lot of work to do.
These last post from you and Sandi2 really made me take a step back and evaluate. I thought I was DB'ing correctly for the most part, but I think at the core I have not been. Going to reply to your post but still doing some souls searching. Your time is very much valued and appreciated.
Goal setting and boundaries are something that I struggle with.
Everyone doesn't approach goal setting the same way, so just take this for what it's worth. I think your goals should be about you. You can't really make a goal that involves another person's volition. So, make them about you and for you own growth/self-improvement and happiness. I think they should be attainable, or it may get too discouraging. Make the goals realistic. Make it somewhat challenging to yourself. Some people do better breaking things down into smaller goals, like on a weekly basis. Some people have short term and long term goals. Goals are not the same as a daily agenda or a "to do" list.
Boundaries are put in place to protect yourself. It is not to control the other person. Only you can do an action if the boundary is dishonored by the other person. You can't make the other person do anything. A boundary is only effective if you enforce it. If you tell her you will not live in an open M, and she doesn't end her affair.....then have to enforce your boundary by doing some type of action. Now you didn't tell her what she had to do. You just told her what you couldn't tolerate. But if she doesn't honor the boundary and is pretty much calling your bluff, what will you do to show you meant what you said about not living in an open M? You could pout, whine, complain, give her the silent treatment, ignore her.......but do you think that would be strong enough, b/c although you are doing those negative things to show her you don't like it that she's still in an A, you are still living in an open M. Therefore, you have to stop living in the open M, which means a S/D. It is not to punish her, but to protect yourself from the damage it is doing to you. It is a consequence for her actions. That's why I tell people not to say anything they are not prepared to back up. If you can't carry through with it, then don't give it as boundary. That's just one example.
The hard work is applying tough love. Doing what you really don't want to do. It's not fun. It's not taking the easier way out. You can't be soft and apply tough love. You can't be soft with a wayward wife.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I just keep reading you post and not knowing what to do. i have set goals such as gym, cleaning house, kids back in school/daycare. These have all been accomplished. i guess time to continue the gym and set some more for me.
To your points.
1) This one is tough or me. I guess that she is in this A, and nothing is going to change until she wants to. She is lost in the fog and there is nothing I can do about it.
2) i guess I have been focusing more on what I can do to change my sitch, and that is not going to help. I need to do things for me. Tough to do the real things I want because I have the kids pretty much all the time when I am not @ work.
3) Thinking about getting my mountain bike fixed up and incorporating that into my exercise regiment.
4) Tough one here. discussed with L's and they all pretty much said don't change anything and just let her continue to dig her hole. Not sure if this is the best advice for my M or my D. I really struggle with boundaries and don't want to file due to religious beliefs. I honestly feel that D is inevitable and that if I piss her off then that will effect the outcome of D. Once she files though "the gloves will come off". I was advised to be like a duck on water. Calm on the surface but treading like crazy underneath.
5) I am making changes with getting some new clothes and more socially active. It is hard with being a full time Dad and i think that she has recently started not having them spend the night with her because she doesn't want me to go out and do things based on her comments. Of course her reason for this is she needs money and her family won't let them until I pay them. Basically she wants me to pay rent to them. Not going to happen.
I am really struggling with what boundaries i need to put in place as most really seem like punishment or vindictive when i think about them.
Goals I know that I need them, but I just feel like they are trivial. I think I am going to focus on projects around my house and break them down.
I just feel dead in the water @ this point. Like I am heading for a brick all and I can't do anything to stop it.
It's long since I don't know the next time I can hop on.