How do you begin the process of forgiveness when you are unsure what it is you are forgiving ?
Personally, I believe it is important to know what we are forgiving. If the other person has offended us, betrayed us, hurt us, what did they to make us offended, hurt, upset, etc.?
In relationships, I think it might be easy, especially for men, to just apologize....in hopes of getting back in their W's good graces again. I don't believe that is healthy. If she's mad or hurt, he needs to know exactly what he did to cause those feelings. Then if he wants to apologize, he needs to specifically name the offense he caused.
The same is true if you are on the other end and you are the one who has been hurt. Surely you know what she's done to create the pain in you.
I also believe it's important in a MR to see remorse from the one who has caused the pain. It's not entirely necessary before you can forgive, but it's very important to the future relationship with that spouse.
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WAW's affair, and the speed in which the D was filed and petitioned,the refusal to go to MC or even talk about it has been so odd. For me, despite all the lies and underhandedness that goes with what has happened, I currently feel the biggest betrayal is the way our 15 years together and all we have gone through, many IVF's, etc. has all been belittled and its value reduced. This makes me so sad. my WAW has not shed a single tear, shown an ounce or remorse or any uncertainty of her actions since BD. This has made me feel more worthless than the affair itself.
For your own mental health's sake, you can break it down. 1) Refusal to get any help for the problems. 2) The lies she told. 3) the deceit and sneakiness. 3) Her cheating and betrayal. 4) The disvalue placed on the years of M together. 5) All the attempts to have a baby seemly unimportant or done in vain. 6) The lack of remorse.
This is a lot of offenses, which sadly, is not uncommon for a wayward wife. To tell you it is common, does not help your feelings. I hope in some small way it will help to tell you that you are not wrong to feel how you feel in response to everything she's done. These are feelings that have unnerved you and has shaken you to the point of feeling unvaluable. It has affected your self-esteem as a man. It has left you confused and maybe doubting you ever knew the true woman that she really was. It may cause you to doubt any future friends or other relationships, just people in general. A lot of LBH's go to therapy to work through these painful issues, b/c it is so much so fast.
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Phrases like ' I will never forgive you for this' keep resounding around in my head and I am struggling to stop it. 4 or 5 months ago she 'wanted to be friends' which I did, but I have been tricked and lied to about mediation, solicitors, house sales to name a few, that I don't currently want her as a friend as she is horrible and to be honest I don't really know who she is.
Truth is, you will never be able to trust her as long as she is wayward. Then it will take some evidence from her to be able to believe her. That usually comes in time, but I've never seen it happen quickly. It depends a great deal, I believe, in how the LBH reacts and the actions he takes. The more wayward she acts (the worse she treats him) the tougher he has to be. This is not the time to be showing a "nice-guy" persona to her.
She will twist & turn everything and make it sound as if you are the bad guy and have done something she'll never trust you or forgive you. Nonsense! Do not let her get under your skin that way.
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petty stuff like washing her cup up, leaving mine, buying her own toilet rolls despite me having done the shopping and so on.
You either have to ignore this immature behavior or else set some kind of boundary. The petty stuff, I advise ignoring it. Just don't say anything, shake your head as if she's a child.
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How do people deal with the love hate, up and down that keeps happening ?
The way I see it (and everyone doesn't agree about this) depends upon you. The longer you put up with her doing this love/hate attitude, the longer she'll continue to put you through hell. You have to take charge of what you'll tolerate and what you won't. Why live in with someone who treats you this way? She either straightens up or she needs to get out. But, she knows you are going to put up with it, doesn't she?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you so much Sandi. She is moving out in a week and a half with my boys. This is another reason I feel so much anger. My 9 year old drew me a picture, a happy face with me in our family home and a sad face with WAW in the new rental house. Despite taking every effort to ensure the boys never feel they have to 'choose' there is already conflict in this poor little fella's head. I cannot see how I would ever forgive WAW for this. It is beyond my capacity to logically reason everything that is going on. I am trying so hard to stick to the rules and WAW and I do not communicate at all. Any given hour of any day I feel differently about things. Sometimes more positive, sometimes tears just form. I am so sad. My boys are my constant and I am doing my all to give them boundaries and as much routine and normality and love as I can. They fill me with joy and happiness knowing they love me back. I am at work now, wondering what furniture I will be left with. Should I be there when WAW moves out, or should I go climb a mountain. I want to skip a year and start over in 2017. This year is going to be tougher
me45,W43 S9,S5 T15yrs M10yrs BD 4/07/15 W wants D 4/07/15 W filed 8/05/15 D petition arrived 21/12/15 Merry xmas, W,S5 S9 moved out 5/2/16
I am really struggling. I watched WAW pack boxes with our boys clothes last night and had to hide as I just couldn't stop crying. It is tearing me up inside and I cant find a way of dealing with the immeasurable pain inside me right now. I have been doing ok with the rules except No 18 as I feel such a mix of anger, resentment, betrayal and hurt for her right now. I spent most of the night re-reading DB. Had some sleep on and off. It's 7 months now and my head is like a ball of wool. Every time I find a focus something like seeing the boxes being packed sends me spiralling downwards again. I am not being kind of friendly to WAW. I have put a padlock on my (our old) bedroom as I do not know if she and OM did anything there and she has been in and stolen my wedding ring and pictures the boys have drawn me. I know this is a symbol but I feel like I cannot be walked over any-more and she will not stick to the boundaries of keeping out of each others bedrooms. My boys came running in this morning for cuddles and to play light sabers before school. WAW now sets the breakfast things up and leaves my space blank. It hurts me so much that I stayed upstairs. what ever I am doing seems to make her more angry and hurtful towards me. My heart feels like it is giving up. I dont want this to go on any more. I don't know what to do. I dont know what to do.
me45,W43 S9,S5 T15yrs M10yrs BD 4/07/15 W wants D 4/07/15 W filed 8/05/15 D petition arrived 21/12/15 Merry xmas, W,S5 S9 moved out 5/2/16
Keefa I am so sorry for this pain and confusion and struggle you are experiencing. This is hell on earth. There is no sugar coating it, what would be the point of that. In my opinion it is better to honor the pain and the loss. Call it what it is. Unfortunately the only way is through it. Right now you find your peace in moments and where you can. There is no reasonable human on earth that would not be feeling the mix of "anger, resentment, betrayal and hurt". Give yourself some slack around the tears and the need to release this. It really is better to release it. Come here and do exactly what you have done, dump all this stuff here on the board and strengthen yourself, find your resolve and return to the fray.
These sh*tty awful feelings do change. It doesn't feel like it, but there is some relief in not see your S everyday. You gain a strange kind of peace. It does not stop the feelings of loss or missing your children, or M, or your the person your W once was. But you get some relief from the pain you get when you see them and are near to them. We all remind ourselves of the cliche "this too shall pass".
Keeping posting Keefa. We all understand, we all have been there, we will see you through this I promise.
Keefa, so sorry to hear about your struggles and I often also feel like you when you said that you, "don't want this go on any more. I don't know what to do." That's a horrible feeling and I would imagine it's even worse if you view yourself as a problem solver.
I don't really have any advice to offer you but I can offer you empathy. Be well. I wish you the best.
Me:44 W:38 T:10.5 M:7.5 D:3 BD: 7/2015 W moves out of MBR: 9/2015 WW files for D: 2/8/2016
what ever I am doing seems to make her more angry and hurtful towards me.
I know that things suck right now. And, like the others, Im sorry for you.
But what you posted here does NOT mean that youre doing the wrong thing. Its OK if what you are doing makes her angry. Thats on HER, not on you. You guys agreed to stay out of each other's rooms, and then she kept going in yours. A padlock was a great idea. But of course shes going to be mad; shes used to getting what she wants all the time! One thing that Ive learned: Peace does not mean Progress.
If you were giving her everything she wanted the last few months, youd be no closer to R than you are now. At least, now, you are learning to stand up for yourself and to gain your self respect back.
You arent going to stop her from leaving. But by becoming a man only a fool would leave, you give yourself a chance she may come back.
Keefa. I know how much it hurts going through this time. It's very fresh to me still. Venting here helps a lot and Azzork is right. Her anger is her problem. You are setting your boundaries. Working on becoming the man you want to be. It's not easy
It hurts seeing her acting in this manner, again her choice. Keep up the good work. It gets better. It just takes time
The person that you will spend the most time with in your life is yourself, so make yourself as interesting as possible.
I feel like I am having to work against a current at the moment, I am not being the man I know I am or want to be. I'm usually positive and cheery but I know right now I am sullen and very withdrawn and I can't seem to break out of this situation. Maybe when she has moved out we will have some space and maybe can at least communicate in an adult fashion. When we satin mediators she said she hoped we could be friends (yes I had the ilybinilwy) but everything I have found out and all the lies is stopping me being friends. I have told her that if she moves out and divorces without even looking at R then the best we will ever be is a purely professional relationship for the sake of our children. My feeling is at the moment is how to break the endless cycle of hurt, anger, sadness, and be the man I want to be. All I want to do is see my boys and hide in my bedroom until I either have to work or I go out with my boys. When I pull up on my drive and see her car is gone I feel relief. Anything I think of to GAL takes me away from time with my boys so I am doing stuff with them every chance I get. Even just a walk in the park. How do others break the cycle ? Is her moving out a blessing in disguise, how will she see I am detaching, GAL etc if she lives elsewhere ?
me45,W43 S9,S5 T15yrs M10yrs BD 4/07/15 W wants D 4/07/15 W filed 8/05/15 D petition arrived 21/12/15 Merry xmas, W,S5 S9 moved out 5/2/16
I feel like I am having to work against a current at the moment, I am not being the man I know I am or want to be. I'm usually positive and cheery but I know right now I am sullen and very withdrawn and I can't seem to break out of this situation. Maybe when she has moved out we will have some space and maybe can at least communicate in an adult fashion. When we satin mediators she said she hoped we could be friends (yes I had the ilybinilwy) but everything I have found out and all the lies is stopping me being friends. I have told her that if she moves out and divorces without even looking at R then the best we will ever be is a purely professional relationship for the sake of our children. My feeling is at the moment is how to break the endless cycle of hurt, anger, sadness, and be the man I want to be. All I want to do is see my boys and hide in my bedroom until I either have to work or I go out with my boys. When I pull up on my drive and see her car is gone I feel relief. Anything I think of to GAL takes me away from time with my boys so I am doing stuff with them every chance I get. Even just a walk in the park. How do others break the cycle ? Is her moving out a blessing in disguise, how will she see I am detaching, GAL etc if she lives elsewhere ?
Keefa
We all want the pain to disappear as quickly as possible, however you will come to know that the pain is the guide to where the learning is. You will come to have a love -hate relationship, you will sit with it like a respected adversary. As Cadet said you have the gift of time. As for GALing, it's not my strength, but for me in the beginning because of the level of my distress and depression I kept things real simple. If I got to work every work day, if I excercised once per day and had some social engagement at the weekend I was happy with my GAL. This was my plan for the first few months. And spending quality time with your children is GAL. Coming up with new activities and the old favs, plus chilling out together is definite GAL, don't underestimate the time with your children has healing and giving you a sense of life and the future.
WAS don't see detachment, they feel it. It's an attitude and vibe you will develop. And somehow the WAS picks it up, even through distance, and space. It's like magic. The great thing about detachment too, is that when you are truly there, truly detached, you don't even care if they feel it or not. Remember too Keefa detachment if for you not for her. It says to you , that you are fully involved and invested in your on life and evolution. If your W is lucky she may well get the benefit of it.
During the week my boys and I made plans to go out on Saturday. I put the details up on a notice board as per her instruction. I have been talking and looking forward to it all week. I just received a text from her saying she and the boys are going for a sleepover and wont be back til Sunday. This has never happened before. I feel like what is left of my heart is being shredded. This is beyond low and I don't know what to do. I have sent a polite text back explaining we had plans and that it is unacceptable to do this but have heard nothing. I have also sent details to my solicitor but I have no rights to stop her. It is abhorrent that someone claiming to be a good mother would do this. I cannot stop crying.
me45,W43 S9,S5 T15yrs M10yrs BD 4/07/15 W wants D 4/07/15 W filed 8/05/15 D petition arrived 21/12/15 Merry xmas, W,S5 S9 moved out 5/2/16
