It seems pretty natural to me. One pillar of their life suddenly disappeared from their everyday existence – so they are going to make sure that doesn’t happen with the other one.
Yes, I understand that. It really does -- I guess it just sometimes takes me off guard because a lot of the time everything is so smooth and they seem like they're adjusting pretty well.
Last night was VERY ROUGH. D12 sat down to wrap Mr. Fantastic's gifts and S9 asked her to let him wrap one. Hell broke loose. It got very, very angry.
When things settled down (which, I will add, was a LOT quicker and more easily than they would have a year ago), I went in to rub D12's back and talk to her and she said for about the 5th time that she was very unhappy with this year's Christmas arrangements. It's Mr. Fantastic's turn to have the kids on Christmas morning and she is NOT OK with that. As it turns out, she also wanted him to have all those gifts because she is trying to win his affection.
He has broken her heart and he can't even see it.
I asked her if she wanted my help in planning how to talk to him about it and she said there was no point in talking to him about it because it wouldn't change anything -- she'd still have to spend Christmas morning at his house and everything else.
As an adult I know that sometimes just talking things through without any change occurring can be helpful. But I don't know how to convey that to her. She's in that funny space in childhood where she still wants what she wants, like a little kid, but she also is *just about* to get to the place where an open conversation can be healing in itself. She has had basically no say in any of the most important events of her life, so I can see her perspective. I am trying to change that dynamic for her but it's such slow going. If anyone has words of wisdom I would appreciate it.
(also, as an aside, I was talking to New Guy just a little bit about some of this and he said "Can you guide her in how to talk to her dad about that? It will be a useful skill for her when she's got boyfriends in the future..." !! I've never had that kind of interaction with a romantic interest before ever...)
It's been a very eventful week for me and I am so relieved to have a quiet weekend in front of me. And the kids have agreed to start going to church again in the new year which is a relief to me. I couldn't have gotten through the last two years without my faith and I wasn't sure how to guide them into moving in that direction without sounding like a nag in an area where you absolutely can not nag.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
I see so much strength and improvement with your R with your D. That's so great.
I guess they have a process to go through just like us...and it's not linear for them either. The holiday season by nature shoves all sorts of family stuff in our faces. I think it's normal that this would be a particularly tough time, because it's all about family and traditions which have now changed so drastically.
As for what to say to D... what can we say besides, "I'm so sorry you are going through this. I know it [censored], and I'm here to listen or help in any way I can..."
FWIW, my now D21 had a couple of very rough years with her dad when she was 12. I did and said what I could, and I did a lot of listening to her and yet, she was still angry. I would say that she had a broken heart at that time. I started dating someone I cared for, and it actually got worse - she blamed her dad for putting me in the position of finding someone new. It was a very emotional time for all of us. And I honestly was able to put myself in her shoes and feel the empathy she desperately needed.
In the end, I told her that I needed to put her back into counseling for a little while. I told her there was nothing wrong with her at all, but that I HAD to help her find a way to constructively manage her feelings in a safe place with someone who wouldn't judge her. I got a little push back, but when I told her I thought it wouldn't take very long if she cooperated, she caved. And it was the best thing I did for her. I just couldn't help her get from point A to point B without feeling guilty about what was happening in my house either. I didn't want to put her in the position of being afraid to tell me 100% of her truth.
In the end, she did. But it took being with her IC to get to that point. It really helped her.
What also helped her was that she was playing a sport she adored - volleyball. She took her feelings out on the court, and put that chip on her shoulder to good work. She opted to devote her energy to really working on her game and I believe it was the foundation for her very successful volleyball career. I find it interesting that she was able to channel that anger into a very constructive path.
She's super good at confronting her feelings now. And it has never ceased to amaze me that when she's overwhelmed, she does something physical - like going for a run, or playing some hoops - all very positive ways to get that energy out of her system. Afterward, she's left with what remains, and she either talks it out with us or her friends or makes a list of things she can do to finish. I admire her for doing what I didn't learn how to do until I was in my 40s at such a young age.
Hang in there. She needs your ears more than your wisdom right now. Help her be honest with herself and guide her into a place where she can learn how to soothe herself.
Hugs- Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Last night again she was in a furious angry place. I made her help me with the grocery list for our Christmas celebration and loaded her and S7 in the car to go to the store. (She was significantly more cheerful by the time we finished the shopping, and she was a huge help.)
i asked her in the car what would be the worst that could happen if she just tried to tell him how she felt. She said that he would fix himself a cup of coffee and announce that he was going to take a nap. Then she and S7 both said "But that's not what he's really doing!! He's really going in his room to play on his phone!!"
I asked what happens when he finishes in his room and they said they just ask him for the same thing again and he sighs and says "Fine." And they get whatever they want.
Unless I get guidance otherwise, I don't intend to address this with him but it's disheartening. It's going to make it so much harder for me to navigate discipline in their teen years. The only help for it is that Mr. Fantastic almost certainly will reject flat out any effort they make to move in with him if things get too difficult with me. So mostly I'm just venting here because I doubt there's much solution.
I will say that these things make me so grateful for the divorce. I never expected to feel that way but the difficulty of managing his needs and parenting the kids before he left (before the bombs, even) compared to now is very telling. I guess it's the upside of him not seeing them much, though it doesn't often feel like it.
One thing I've learned from New Guy (who may or may not be running for the hills... But that's another story) is that it would be helpful if I could practice being lighter and more playful. I drove past the old house this morning, as I do every day, and I thought about how hard everything was there, and how glad I was to be out of it. And somehow the cost of those two years suddenly just kind of landed on me, and how hard I had to work to build myself out of that, and how grateful I am to be past it all. Part of the cost of that time was my playfulness. Looking back on family pictures, I used to make homemade slime and collect hundreds of snails to keep in an old fish tank and all kinds of goofy things my mother would never have done. I've lost that to a degree. So that's the next thing I'm going to try to rebuild. My kids need a happy, sturdy mom.
New Guy has drawn back and I can't decide if that's a good thing or not. He has been a nice presence in my life, in a lot of ways. Other things about him are less positive, and I'm not sure if they're deal breakers. It may not matter if he doesn't reach back out. It touches me in a sore spot if he doesn't but I'll try to keep track of the positives of the experience if that's how it turns out.
I appreciate this space for journaling. I've strayed away from DBing in what I talk about here but there's nothing to work with with Mr. Fantastic. I'm trying to use what I've learned on the other people in my life -- and it occurs to me it could be useful with New Guy as well. He's been much more helpful with the kids, even never having met them, than their own dad is, and he's fun too. We'll see what happens.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Hey Maybell, just replying here to your post on Mozza's thread.
Yes, after the divorce I dated 3 different "hermits" (middle aged men who were Love Avoidant and had gotten really comfortable being single; we had great times when we were together, but they didn't really want to be a couple, or hear about any of the problems I was facing, or feel obligated in any way.) I think they felt comfortable because I knew they wouldn't ask anything of me, or want more than I could give.
I also dated a couple of guys who were much too young; again, knowing nothing could come of it made it feel safe.
Once I really felt ready for a relationship, I met current BF, who has been tremendously supportive, is present every day, and has no hermit/avoidant tendencies.
I'm glad for all those relationships, and I might not have recognized current BFs stellar qualities if I hadn't had those experiences.
It's important to make sure we're not just repeating old patterns without being aware.
New Guy is looking better and better. Really kind fun and totally different than anyone I've ever known. So I'm sticking it out. He's made it pretty clear that's what he'd like and I'm learning from the situation so I'll toughen up and not slink off because I'm scared. Maybe at some point he'll stop being New Guy and start being My Guy.
I have a couple of job prospects out there, very different from one another. Again, one is super safe and known, but would be a challenge logistically and doesn't pay well. The other one is a big risk but logistically more do-able and potentially pays well. I'm growing more interested in the riskier one, which has made me realize a few things about myself: 1) I like the idea of a little more risk; 2) I think I'm a little more interested in an actual relationship than I knew; 3) YES I CAN -- whatever it is.
We'll see how I feel tomorrow.
Now on to the meat and potatoes of why I'm here:
The kids were with Mr. Fantastic this past weekend. Last week S7 was bawling every day over different things he was unhappy about, totally sweating the small stuff. This is very unlike my happy-go-lucky, super-confident, roll-with-the punches youngest child. Last night he came home all excited. Everyone was talking about how much fun they had ice skating with Mr. Fantastic and his girlfriend and her kids. They were all full of it. But as soon as the door closed behind Mr. Fantastic he fell apart, crying about how he didn't get any attention from his dad, etc., and how much he missed him. He asked if he could text his dad and of course I said yes. So he texted "I miss you dad" with several emojis carefully chosen to make sure they looked sad enough. Mr. Fantastic texted back, "Aw, I miss you too, man." and that was it.
D12 came home with a severely sprained finger. In the scheme of things this is not a big deal but it should have been iced because it's really hurting her. She said she thought she needed it but they were at the park and Mr. Fantastic told her she needed to "toughen up" and that they weren't leaving for ice. I told her this morning to make sure she showed the PE teacher because the teacher would have a lot of experience with that sort of injury. PE teacher told her not to do anything that required holding a weight with her hand. Also in consequence of the injury, we aren't going to karate tonight -- punches are beyond her ability at the moment since she can't close her hand.
A few weeks before he moved out in 2014, S9 (then 7) broke his arm at a roller skating party. Mr. Fantastic left me to carry out the first aid while he went and skated the limbo. When I helped S9 into the car Mr. Fantastic told me that I should just make him do it himself, that babying him wasn't going to help him grow into a man. So D12 telling me that Mr. Fantastic told her she needed to toughen up -- and now her finger is black & blue and swollen to almost twice its normal size -- really pushes a button.
Also today, D12 was being appallingly rude about wanting an iphone 6. This is outrageously entitled, and she was slamming doors, lightly cussing (words that would be allowed in this forum but that I frown on in my house from her mouth), kicking things around and generally behaving in a way that would go viral if I shared a video on FB. So I took her existing phone away. Then I texted Mr. Fantastic that I had done so so he would know he couldn't reach her that way. I was treated to several long texts saying that her behavior wasn't acceptable but "we" should come up with a different consequence for her since losing her phone made it difficult for him to keep in touch with her. He suggested I take her Legos, which is a calming activity for her, or her bike, which she hasn't used in 3 weeks because there is something wrong with the gear system and I haven't taken it to the bike doctor yet.
I'm tired of the way his choices impact my life. I did tell him that his convenience wasn't my priority in choosing how to discipline the girl. It was with great difficulty that I restrained from saying anything further. I only refrained because I knew it wouldn't achieve anything. But seriously, how selfish can he be? He won't care for her enough to get ice for her injured finger. He tells her to toughen up. He doesn't want me to discipline her because it inconveniences him when I do. He can't be bothered to spend time with the kids and actually know what they're like or make them feel like he cares about them. And yet I have to parent with this person?
This is mostly venting but if someone has a suggestion or if there is a very limited thing I can say to him to make him understand how his choices impact people, I'm totally open to hearing about it.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
And when I say "thank you, kml" I mean -- your feedback was really helpful and I've been referring back to it and thinking it over since you left it, and THANK YOU.
I'm trying to lighten up and just have fun. It's not so easy.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
now her finger is black & blue and swollen to almost twice its normal size
She needs an xray. Ignore ex's "toughen up" BS and get her seen.
My ex was like that too - he grew up in a family where you never admitted to being sick and the harder you worked, the more you were valued. When I developed health problems during our marriage, he pretty much expected me to just suck it up, had no empathy for what I was going through (and trust me, I am SO not a whiner!).
And, btw - the best part of dating after divorce? EVERY man I dated thought I was fantastic, couldn't understand why my ex would have ever left me, and they all remain friends to this day. It was very life-affirming after living with my ex's negativity for so long.
Just a quick thought since you asked... maybe the response to making it harder to contact her could be something like, "well, if you want to reach her during the xx days that she's on punishment, you could call the house phone/my phone during xx time. Something like that, just to show you can find a solution that may meet both of your needs?
More later... thanks for updating MB. sounds like there are some exciting things on the horizon!
