Ok so I am seeing things a little calmer I am not spinning so much and I can even see how over the past six months I have been running scared I have been frantic G, You are still spinning, you are doing donuts on your future. You ARE running scared of being alone and losing the comfy life you had. You still havent told me 5 things you love about your W. If you cant come up with them why stay married? For convenience? I posted the answer to this above OK Noted
Ok so persuing is not good and I have been doing this through my fear of being alone and I see all I am doing is pushing her further away so this has now stopped. It hasnt, it will continue as all the other times you said the same story.
It may already be too late I do not know all I know is I have to start changing my thinking process if I am to either make a difference to my M or Make a Difference to myself. Your M is dead and no defibrilator will jump start it. Think about making a difference to G in order to start this possible new M. It does not have to be either one or the other. What does make a difference to ghost mean do things for me I realise my marriage is dead right now my W is co living with me does this not time me valuable time to wpend with her and the kids if this is something she wants If you truly believe your M is dead then why do you keep trying to repair it instead of working on yourself to offer a new R to your W?
Beginners mindset .....humm...put myself in her mindset NO there you go again ... thinking you know what she is thinking. You always make this mistake.
Actions rather than words THIS ....might be a good starting place I think you said this many many times already. My wife does not believe my words she has heard them all before and she does not believe that I can change No because in all honesty I cannot see any change in you and furthermore she needs time. You expect her to flip in a few months and then get frustated when she doesnt react. Remember she has been brewing for years and you want reactions in months? Since bomb date I have continued to work hard At What? I have changed my working hours so I get to spend time with my children before work every day OK I have booked Sunday's off work so I do not work Sunday's OK I have taken my little girl to the play center to the park out for a break to my sisters for 4 Days Good keep it up I have been doing much more arround th hous with regard to house chores and cooking and cleaning washing ironing as it has been said before I could be Mary flippin popping and it would not have any effect on her wanting to work on the marriage. OK but you also know being a Mary Poppins as you say is part of the change not the main focal point ... right?
I have made many changes that she will be seeing in a day to day basis I am working out and loosing weight.
I do not want to appear self centred by taking myself off and doing things for me and not putting my children first my wi used to always says that I did not do enough with the children,so I wold see what I am doing as a 180 but do not worry today I have got plans for me and my little girl we area going to the play center and I will be taking her to Father Christmas I will ask my W is she wants to come along this is up to her.
I think back over the marriage and there have been many times where we have argued over a relatively small things these are things that she is now making into a bigger issues and for her they are bigger issues. To you they were small maybe not to her. Additionally many frequent busts over small things hide a big issue. Maybe she saw and you did not. Maybe she is also rewriting for her benefit. You do not know the truth unless you honestly analyze and find out
The things that we argued over were Me not doing enough with the kids I was always at work Me spending too much time on my iPad and my computer Me not spending the evenings with my W Me not doing enough cooking Me not doing my share of the housework In short YOU taking her for granted. That is a BIG issue and one where W DO search for that interest elsewhere ... see how you got it wrong? When things were tough she stood by yourside ... did you stand by hers?
I read on someone else's post and I will add to it here I do not see how divorce selling the house choosing to see th children 1/2 the time ....becoming single parents to 4 children swapping the kids over twice a week or three times a week for the next 16 years with me staying in contact with my wife and her staying in contact with me through our children. Can possibly be better than staying in trying to work things out Bla bla bla again more of the same G If she does not want you or stay with anything will be better than what she has, can you not grasp this? if you were in prison with all luxuries would you want to stay or would you prefer to be free and face a lot of work?
She knows that we both love our children unless she has an alternative master plan then there is going to be a lots of swapping over of children Maybe that is her masterplan and there may be lots of swapping if it comes down to that be prepared.
I sometimes say to her I just want to make things better and she immediately says will better for you is asked getting back together and having sex no it's not but I don't know how I can let her know that's not what I mean getting back together could be any number of things it could be spending one night with each other going to the cinema once every couple weeks enjoying each other's company it might be going to the theatre it might be going out for a drink going for a meal once every week or every couple of weeks and just try andget along and see if our friendship grows.....but I can say this to her without it seeming pursuing It is persuing and what do you have to offer different than what she was getting and didnt want. How close are you to offering what she might want? Do you really want to become a housemate for the rest of your life with her? Are you really ready for a life of celibacy if that is what it will come down to?
So I need to back off and give her space YES!!!!! oh and STFU
We have been separated for about six months She has, not you though. but we're married 17 years together 25 years and although we have been separated for the past six months we have probably spent as much time together if not more doing things for the children and doing things together And ? ...
Ok so something that she felt very strong about was that she felt I was being controlling and that she would not go out with her friends or even add males on Facebook through fear of it upsetting me do you think I should just turn round to her and say look I do not mind if you add people on Facebook I to you like I do not mind if you go out for a meal or a drink with someone else the bottom line is she is not with me and even if she was with me and if we ever did get back together this is something that would very much after change to allow her to do these things and to live her life the way she wants to live it. I can imagine what it was like to live with you. You are a control freak but I think more out of insecurity and low self esteem than anything else. Unless you address that problem forget any chance of getting back or even piecing.
max you state that I am a control freak YUP you do not know me I never met Jack the ripper but think we can agree he did have to work on his social skills. yes I have insecurities i am working on regarding my weight see what I mean ....sure I do not like the idea of her adding males to her friends controlling attitude through insecurity with added jealousy it is almost impossible that males and females are just friends if there is an attraction then affairs can and often will develope Affairs develop if there is something missing at home and someone else is at the right moment at the right place and it doesnt have to be with a brad pitt look alike. Do you really want to go through life thinking your partner will have an affair so easily. Do you really think so low of yourself? Dont you think it is time to earn some self respect and show your W and rest of the world who you are and you have something to offer? I realise I have no say in this and she could if she wanted to fill her pages this is not something that she has started to do. Does not mean anything.
So I realise that I have to work on my insecurity if she wants to go out and if she wants something to happen then it will I have no control so might as well let this go YES you have to work on your insecurities and a LOT and be prepared for her to maybe have an EAPA. The problem will then be how you react if she does. If you're lost now then if that happens you wont even find your way with a GPS stuck up where the sun dont shine. Additionally, women dont like insecure men. Believe me on that one.
The marriage we had we could never ever go back toWould you want to? NO I WOULD NOT. Why? Would she want to? Why? SHE WOULD NOT WANT TO I just do not see why with all my changes that I'm doing G, WTF, the only real changes I have seen you make is change your member name and add new posts. What serious and deep changes have you really made G and of those, which ones really would want to make your W come back? why we cannot get to the stage where we have a very different marriage but she is not right now prepared to give it a chance Exactly. She may be prepared to give it a chance if there was something to attract her. You are just offering the same misery. She may think she deserves better than what you have given her lately and she wants it. Keep up your methods and she will definitely never want to give it a chance. How can you offer a different marriage if you are stil the same person.
So all I can do is keep working on me andbecoming a better person and who knows what that might bring For a start it will make you a better person and if it is too late for your w will help with any future R with someone else and until then help you cope with being alone.
Seriously G,
I really wish you would stop smothering her, start working on yourself, stop contradicting yourself, stop lying to yourself and above all else stop asking questions you know the answer to.
NB: Stop mentioning about you initiating a D etc. You know full well you are only trying to get a reaction from her. The problem with using ultimatums as a bluff is if you get called out on them.
G I think you are a smart and intelligent person but with a lot of insecurity issues looking for an easy way out. If you truly think your R and W and kids are worth fighting for then stop whining and start growing a pair and follow the advice here. Not mine but someone's. It has been proven that your way isnt working.
I am up to over 900 posts and yet I still feel that I do not know what I shold be doing this sounds so pathetic
Ok so let me ask something if I may The thing that is going through my head at the moment is not just that my W has asked to separate it is what is going to happen with regard the children.
Just today I was going to be taking me little boy to his weekend activity and at the last moment he said he wanted mummy to take him and he starts getting upset so I said how about mummy and daddy both take you so we can both go and watch you ....he said yes but my wife clearly did not really want us both to go..
So this got me thinking about when we divorce and are living apart how I know we really do not want to get child care matters decided by the courts...we have to sort this together....What if the children are ment to be coming to mine and they start crying say no I do not want to go ....do I just each and every time back down and just drive off in my own back to my house without my children
Being the mummy she has been arround so much more than I have because of my work she is arround after school and at weekends and the children are closer to her because of this.
So I have right now the gift of time but this is running out day by day and this is going to go on for ever with the children my youngest is two and the one that got upset is eleven.
I am at the point where I want to try and reason with my W negotiate some sort of deal ...how crazy does that sound ?
I stand that chance of loosing everything I realise just what is at stake
Guilt trip and still trying to use the Kids card on W to force to rethink leaving as it will affect kids otherwise why bring it up now when you still have to sell the house.
See what I mean about looking for every excuse under the sun to stop W from leaving through need or discomfort rather than personal desire to stay through love.
What will be the next post? How will she cope in a new house? What car will she need ? Unti you realize a house is not a home you will fail.
Max I cannot see how i can show my W love right now I am being told left right and center that I have to back off from her she is not interested in spending time with me
I am not sure how I can show her my changes ...your words....she may be prepared to give it a chance if there was something to attract her you are offering her the same misery with nothing to attract he
I cannot push for anything period
I have not spoken to her about me filing for a divorce this is something that she wants to do and as such I am not going to be the on to bring up,
I am actually enjoying doing the housework it takes my mind,off things here
Me:48 W 41 M:18 T:26 2 D 18 & 4 2 S 17 & 13 Bomb: 20/7/2015 in house separation D filed 06/17 Separate houses 10/17 D Final 29/12//17.
Max I cannot see how i can show my W love right now I am being told left right and center that I have to back off from her she is not interested in spending time with me
Ghost, you do it by backing off. Completely. Pretend she is your neighbor.
I am not sure how I can show her my changes ...your words....she may be prepared to give it a chance if there was something to attract her you are offering her the same misery with nothing to attract he
I cannot push for anything period
You are right, stop pushing.
I have not spoken to her about me filing for a divorce this is something that she wants to do and as such I am not going to be the on to bring up,
Exactly, don't bring it up. If she does, respect her wishes, just go along with it. Don't facilitate the process, but don't try to stop her either.
I am actually enjoying doing the housework it takes my mind,off things here
You are welcome to clean my house, it could use a good cleaning. I spend my whole day on this forum so you are at least being productive.
Max I cannot see how i can show my W love right now I am being told left right and center that I have to back off from her she is not interested in spending time with me As Pho said, by backing off, STFU and concentrating on working on yourself so she does not feel smothered. It is hard to bear a smothering H, much less a smothering LBH.Read the great article on Love v Smothering
I am not sure how I can show her my changes ...your words....she may be prepared to give it a chance if there was something to attract her you are offering her the same misery with nothing to attract he We are told here to work on ourselves, be the best we can be, only a fool would leave, you get the drift. Do this, work on yourself and show her a new G 2.0. Otherwise what incentive does she have? I am not saying that working on yourself will get her back, only that if she is to consider anything with you she needs to be sure your changes are real and also what she wants. If she wants a secure and self respecting G, doing the housework is fine but will not get her back. I seriously think (and it is my opinion) that your smothring, controlling of her and your relationship as well as taking her for granted was what really pushed her away. I dont think it was just the housework.
I cannot push for anything period Exactly.
I have not spoken to her about me filing for a divorce this is something that she wants to do and as such I am not going to be the on to bring up, Exactly.
I am actually enjoying doing the housework it takes my mind,off things here Great but dont make it your flagship change
I want to comment on the topic of making changes. If I have read his posts correctly, AtPeace has mostly seen making changes as to what leg action he does. He has tried to put action to the things his W complained about........more housework, more time with kids, less time on IPad, etc. These are actions I call leg actions, because it doesn't require growth or inner development. It doesn't require a lot of good character traits. A man can do these things without changing his attitude or mindset.
AtPeace, I believe what may be missing are those areas where you change the inner man. In other words, you "become" a better man. It isn't about what leg action you can do or not do. Those areas are pretty simple and relatively easy in comparison to changing how you think. Have you changed the inside of you? Dealt with your fears, compulsion thinking, codepency, etc.? We have tried to tell what to do or stop doing, in an attempt to help you "become" that better man, however, when you talk about your changes........you pull out this leg action list of your W's. Remember when you were doing all the housework, while she did none of it? Didn't make her any happier, did it? That's b/c it wasn't the real problem.
I know that most W's will give an entire laundry list of things the H needs to do or stop doing (all leg actions). However, it really boils down to what kind of man you are with her, and her children. A woman doesn't fall in love with a man based on his housekeeping skills. When she complains about you working too late or being on your IPad too much........that really isn't what she means. This probably blows your mind, so I won't continue on with this subject, but Max touched on it. It's all about how you make her feel. It is about the relationship. It is about "becoming" a new and better man by how you think and feel.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Stop trying to justify her working on the M because its the what's best for the kids. It seems you haven't changed from the old M anyway because you still cling to her and for all the wrong reasons. It's not even that you love her as much as it's just your fear of being alone and how hard life will be starting over. What she said was true, her coming back is what's best for you right now and the things you tell her (even if they are true) only reassure her she was right.
Here's something I want you to think about for a while. You said 3 years ago she was nearly out the door and you changed some so she would stay (I think, forgive me if I'm confusing stories). You said those changes didn't last and it was becaue they were for the M and not you. You have even said if the changes stuck then and you did more work you might have saved it then. How is now different from then if she comes back to you tomorrow? Nothing would have changed and you would be back here in 3 years again. You changing for you is only part of the equation, the rest is her and out of your control.
When we nearly split up it was because she had been feeling very unloved I had been taking her for granted and I had not been spending quality time with my children. I was not pulling my weight arround the house and I was still expecting everything from my W
All the time she was feeling extremely unhappy she was still doing every thing for me and for the house and for the children she must have been exhausted
I would put pressure on her at bedtime I was selfish I put my needs above hers and I did not stop to consider her feelings.
She tried to tell me how unhappy was and I did not listen she would cry I would comfort her but for her the words went in one ear and out the other. Sure i tried to comfort her but. I did not see and did not realise just how unhappy she was.
My actions we're abusive and over the years this is how she has felt ...abused
my W had felt unloved she felt that I did not listen to her and did not want to show her my love and now I realise just how she has been feeling
So how have I changed
I accept that we are finished as a Maried couple I have to listen to what she has been saying she said during our marriage that I did not listen ....well I am listening . She does not have to be here in the house with me right now but she is choosing to stay
I am being a lot calmer arround the children and arround my W I do not have any expectations I no longer treat Her with disrespect I show her I care I show love to all our children I spend time with all of them I care about the house and I do my share of the housework I do this because it is the right things to do
I love the fact that we are both arround every day to spend quality time with our children I get to see them every day I am arround when my children are sad I am able to co parent in the same house two parents are better than one we have each other for backup
So to confirm,
1) STFU 2) do not push for anything 3) spend time every day with each of my children show them love 4) create peace at home 5) continue to become a better man 6) have no expectations
Me:48 W 41 M:18 T:26 2 D 18 & 4 2 S 17 & 13 Bomb: 20/7/2015 in house separation D filed 06/17 Separate houses 10/17 D Final 29/12//17.
Sandi2 I do understand what you are saying and I know and can see what you mean about the fact that on the surface changes are not what makes the difference
Max also hit it as well and the last two posts I will read a few times and will add theese to my saved posts
I am starting to understand
Thank you both and RD your posts and Fogg Pho Azzork to name just a few you are starting to get through to me
Me:48 W 41 M:18 T:26 2 D 18 & 4 2 S 17 & 13 Bomb: 20/7/2015 in house separation D filed 06/17 Separate houses 10/17 D Final 29/12//17.
Sandi2 you are not blowing my mind I understand exactly what you are saying about how she wants to feel how she wants to be treated ....I suppose the big question is is it too late for her to believe in me and my changes ...I do remember when we first got together she did feel special she had a glow she radiated love towards me and over time this was erroaded away by my actions.
People talk a lot about the 189s
I was controlling I gues to some degree we all can be butt this is not about her it is about me and my changes. I did not see my actions as smothering but on reading the post on loving over smothering I can see how I was
My W deserves to feel loved with no expectations from me the most important things in Her life are her children ...our children.
Question how do I get the balance between showing my W caring loving actions without persueing her or making her feel that I expect anything ....if she feels smothered to give her the space she needs ....to listen to what she is saying.
I have been getting this so wrong I have been trying to make things better with my W when I need to be strengthening the love between me and my children
I have three children that love me and I have one that does not want my love I have one child that feels let down by her daddy I need to find her love language and try and rebuild a relationship with my eldest daughter
Last edited by ATPeace; 12/14/1505:59 AM.
Me:48 W 41 M:18 T:26 2 D 18 & 4 2 S 17 & 13 Bomb: 20/7/2015 in house separation D filed 06/17 Separate houses 10/17 D Final 29/12//17.
