onward - 13

[JellyB]

Poke (playful elbow in your ribs)

[u-turn]

Hey there Jelly - I'm back. Kids left last night and I was feeling exhausted and stressed and sad. I sat down and fell asleep (something that happens for me every now and then)

I really do think you hit on something - maybe that's it, maybe I haven't allowed myself to express my feelings and certainly wasn't encouraged to do so by STBX. I don't know if I can even try to figure her out - she is a completely different person since BD compared to how we lived before that. I have to reach back to remember the good of everything - the last two years have certainly tainted my memories.

I do know that I never want to be in a relationship that isn't focused on communication again - and that was both of our problem. I know we lacked that and I believe if anything that was our main problem. Now - what made her go off the deep end, I can only speculate and I suppose it is done and doesn't matter, but I still try to figure that out.

Communication has been a889kijmajor problem in many facets of my life. In my relationship, I have not shared my feelings, not spoke about what I want and not been clear of what I find acceptable and necessary in a marriage. In business, I have been known to not communicate with clients, when even slightly bad news needs to be told, I put it off, which compounds the problem and compounds the bad news. this cycle continues.

I am aware of these things and am forcing myself to fix this.

and yes - that is pretty accurate. In the same regard as communicating, I do not argue either. Shut down and get on - that's about right.

I think about what I have learned and what mistakes I made that I can do better next time. I usually can see quite clearly what mistakes I have made and that usually obscures the positives - Even though that is not how I live my life with everyone else. I am a very positive person when it comes to other people. I can pick the smallest glimmer of light in any situation, make that the focus and build on it. I just can't seem to do that with myself.

and guess what - I can beat myself up about beating myself up. how about that

I have learned here - and maybe never heard it before. Be kind to yourself. This is what I need by me for me.

I have to run - but will finish this later.

Thanks for being here with me.
u-turn

[Rick1963]

U it is good that you have become aware of what needs changing. Look up the conflict avoider. It may help u move forward.

[JellyB]

U,

I was glad to see you post. In my minds eye I think about how much parenting and caring you do while your children are present and then when they are away from you, that you are this man who quietly beavers away trying to get your family ahead, or at least get yourself ahead of the game. I am not surprised to hear that you fell asleep with exhaustion.

I have been pondering your comments about your communication and conflict style. It is very similar to mine. I guess where we are in a our relationships with our significant others, we can only but keep learning and practicing in the moments to become better communicators.

I do however keep coming back to how I feel about myself and that I stop myself from fulling experience myself, others and the world around me by not engaging in communication and connection. I wonder why.

I wondered what you see yourself doing differently in your next relationship, be that with your STBX or some other re communication.

What are you doing now in business. Has it changed things?

I have been recognising that I am really fearful about taking the next step in my life. I think I have claimed too much space in my Breathing room and it has become uncomfortable.

Are you fearful about what is next?

Do you know what to do next? I know there are practical things that both of us need to do to move forward, but what past them that brings meaning and excitement to life? I have some ideas, but they a freaking me out a bit. lol.

I wish that some other gorgeous DB men would pop by and provide you some far better companionship, guidance, and advice than mine - which is too navel gazing, touchy feeling malarky.


For the interim however U, you are completely stuck with me

JellyB XXX

[Sotto]

Hi U-turn, I think communicating our needs within a relationship is something many of us have struggled with. I know it has been a big factor in our sitch. I tend to suppress rather than speak out and my H has told me he has done the same. Problem is it means the 'real' you doesn't get 'seen' and intimacy in the R erodes over time.

Have you seen Brene Brown's TED talks or read Daring Greatly? Also, you may want to consider reading (or revisiting) NMMNG perhaps?

I think you're doing so well U-Turn. Things still aren't easy, but you are processing and moving forward my friend.

Take care xx

[Vanilla]

Dearest U

I felt it was time to return the compliment you paid on my thread.

How did you get on with the IRS issue, did you find an accountant or plead for more time? Can you get historic docs from IRS?

Just want to explore the issues of emotion and explain how I see it, identifying emotions is step one towards expressing them.

It sounds corny but have you seen the Disney children's film Inside Out? It's amazing for identifying the five key emotions and looking at the role each plays and how essential they are. The film has five but some models say six feelings. Those are Anger, Sadness, Happiness (Joy), Disgust, Fear, some models include Surprise and others Love. I love this film, gives me a warm glow in my mid section and I smile lots.

If you can see the film it is really strong, with its long and short term memory model, and different islands. I am assuming since your kids are older you might not have seen it.

Many think love is a choice.

These emotions are prime, yet others split emotions and feelings although I interchange the terms. What is clear U is that these are involuntary. You have every right to express them and own them. They are yours to experience, you can accept them and go with it. These are primary and the body can only hold one at a time. Emotional Intelligence is key and knowing these emotions and changing body state to manage them is something that can be learned.

At any age!

I understand that you are saying it's hard to express how you feel, I think I start with knowing the feeling and feeling it, then I am largely there.

I sense that U may be mixing beliefs and thoughts with feelings. On top of this are wants and needs. This is my understanding.

Feelings are primary body limbic sensations, (that which some called lizard brain reactions).

Beliefs are changeable and continuing and drive behaviour.

I think you know this and the tough part is knowing how these are experienced in your body, each of us different. Some experience anger as a burning in the stomach and blocking of the ears, others as a rush of heat, others feel cold and stiffen. It's good to know how you feel each emotion. Once this is understood then it's easier to express how you feel.

Then next step that I learned was to be very straightforward about my emotion, I feel angry about xxxxxxx. When yyyy happens I am sad.

Following this it's a question of expressing the want or need, I feel angry when xxxxxxx happens and I want yyyy to happen. So for instance I feel sad that we don't ML and I need to discuss our choices.

I am happy when you treat the kids well and I want you to do x or y with S or D.

It is the same for boundaries I think so.

Let's keep it simple and uncomplicated.

So U of these primary emotions how do you experience them?

Where in your body? What colour? Shape? Hot or cold?

Which emotion follows?

Is there a pattern?

How intense are the emotions?

What behaviours follow?

How would you describe each?

As always U there is no need to respond, you can say no thanks V, I will be ok with that.

I just want to be practical.


Hugs

V

[u-turn]

Thanks Rick - I have been reading about conflict avoiders and it seems that is me - in relationships, in business. I do see how this lack of verbal communication and dealing with conflict in a passive aggressive way did not resolve anything - it made everything worse.

I think we both were major conflict avoiders throughout our marriage. Even when she was aggressive in her words and actions, she was usually reacting to me. My lack of communication and follow-through. (Even near the end, the death threats seem to be a response by her to my silent actions - and maybe that all was passive aggressive - I don't really know)

This is something that I am digging into and KNOW I need to do better - this change is hard for me - I think I have always been this way, Since I was a kid. I do fear that if I can not change this, I will not achieve the things that I want.

Thank you for stopping by!

[u-turn]

Hi Jelly,
I have been criticized not just by STBX, but by other people about my lack of communication.

I was actually given a letter from a client a couple years ago (he was a business analyst that I designed a home for) he loved my work, wouldn't change a thing, but was brutally honest about my communication and how if I didn't improve this, my business will fail. I took it to heart, and changed a little.

Though it seems like a cop-out blame game, I quickly went back into my old ways after BD. I was paralyzed and couldn't seem to get anything right. Not only did I not get my work done, I didn't communicate to the clients about it. It seems I started every single e-mail that I wrote "I apologize for the delay". This all just kept piling up - I was fired from a couple commissions.

I may have permanently ruined my relationship with one of my closest friends that I was collaborating with on a project. I treated her like sh!t and hopefully some day she will forgive me. This is almost as devastating to me as losing my W.

I KNOW I NEED TO CHANGE THIS FOR ME TO MOVE FORWARD AND SUCCEED. I wish I could say that I have changed completely. I am working on it every day.

I do think it is time to take some chances - and I see that with you too. I have usually considered myself a person that could achieve anything (and I think people believe this about me to). But it's time for me to put this into new actions.

I am fearful about this all - I am scared because I don't have someone beside me. I know that should not matter and doesn't really change anything, but with all of the major changes in my life, I had someone by my side. someone to just be there for the good and bad.

I used to take chances and push my limits, but I don't feel like I was brave, because I had a team. Now it's just me and if I fail, it's just me.

I do think about the kids with every action that I make. I need them to feel safe and comfortable. I want them to be proud of me. If they knew that we don't have this or that because dad failed - how would I get through that?

I would love to focus on some things that I would just like to do, but cannot right now. There just are not enough hours in the day and any minute I spend on those things, takes away from the things that have to be done. It is overwhelming, but hopefully this will not last forever.

Please don't think that I don't value every word you write me. I think it is exactly what I need. In my adult life, I have usually gravitated toward female friendships (maybe that's a problem), but I don't have many male close friends. not malarkey .

[u-turn]

Hi Sotto - thank you for stopping by.
I completely agree with that - I do feel that was the real downfall in our R. I think I can finally see that - it really wasn't the A or her waywardness, those were only the end of the game. Our poor communication was chipping away at us for a very long time and even though there were very good times, the bad times were never resolved and just built up.

I don't even know how long I was just playing along, always suppressing. Maybe always. I don't think I was afraid of arguing, or making her mad. I think I thought my opinion did not matter or I was just wrong - so it wasn't even worth stating my point of view.

I have seen Brene Browns talks - but I watch them over when I see them mentioned on the forum. I think she has it right. I started reading NMMNG a while back - but stopped because it wasn't sitting well with me. Maybe it's time to try again.

Thank you again!!

[u-turn]

Hi Vanilla - I hope you are doing well.
I am not going to get through this whole response, but wanted to let you know that I am putting a lot of thought toward this and will answer you.

(I didn't get very far answering your last round of questions about writing the next book in my series. I am still mulling that one over, but still feel like I am between books yet - maybe a comic book to hold us over until I get a clearer view. I have an idea about who the lead character is though)

I received historic docs the other day from the IRS but they only contained my information and not STBXW. I sent her an e-mail last night updating her about the payment I made for the state tax and the payment I made for federal tax. I also let her know that I was informed about our unfiled taxes for the last 5 years and that I am getting this back on track but need her to contact the IRS for her information.

I am contacting an accountant that was referred to me by a friend on Monday to see if I can afford to get help with this.
--
I didn't see Inside out, but it is one that I really want to see. (I loved watching all of the Disney movies with the kids)

I am wondering - do you think you are always feeling something? I mean, if there are these 5 or 6 feelings, are there mostly down times between these feelings?

I do think that I mix up feelings and beliefs and may allow thoughts and beliefs to change or squash feelings. I still find myself trying to stop feeling and emotion. Especially the sad feelings I get when I talk to people about myself.

I was at my parents house this weekend just stopping by to say hi.
The conversation turned toward christmas and I felt myself pulling back and welling up. My problem is with the kids. I don't have anything that would remind them of christmas from the past, I don't have any money for gifts....all of this makes me very sad and makes me question what I have done. (I know this is sadness).

My parents offered to help me, but then there's my pride. I may take them up on the help (if some money from the business doesn't come in this week - very slow paying clients).

I am going to continue with this tomorrow - have to get up in a couple hours.

Thank you V