Im not an expert here by no means but experience has shown that bringing in the kids too early can have devastating effects.
Only when things are terminal 100% do you bring them so everyone can start adjuting. Involving them in squabbles or as backup to go against WS is a really bad idea.
I know all this from all angles. The life as you knew it is over. You dont take sides if you are young. You just want mummy and daddy back again.
A married couple are together through a different love of their children. You can fall out of love with a S but for a child mummy will always be mummy, etc. Unless of course there are othher issues.
To put it short... anger, vengeance, spite and children dont mix.
As for 123's jabs at wife, he is not DB at all and jabs, snide remarks, etc they wont get him anywhere. He has mentioned he has been hard on S. That is what he is achieving.
It is a tough situation by all means that we have not been taught to handle so best to listen to what the people here who know have to say.
I understand but even Dr. Harley, who is very accommodating when it comes to affairs, prescribes exposure as the best chance of killing it. Marriages can not be saved while one member of them is having an affair with someone else. That's one person too many in the marriage. If we're telling betrayed spouses just to go along with the affair to save their marriage then I'd love to know the logic behind that.
Your question was does not this site advocate exposing affairs to the whole world. The answer is that Divorce Busting does not advocate exposing. Marriage Builders and some other sites, do advocate exposure. That's not to say that we don't have a few independent board members who support the idea, but MWD does not. In fact, she came to post about that particular subject a few years ago.
Dr. Harley and MWD have different approaches.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you very much for the explanation. I guess the difference is here we're trying to stave off divorce and not necessarily work on marriage building...yet. I can maybe see the point but at least you have to agree that working on a marriage is darn near impossible when one member of it is having a relationship with someone else. Human brains aren't wired that way.
The other site is tougher, IMHO, but you better not step sideways with anything Dr. Harley teaches! I agree with a great deal with what he says, although, I prefer this site much more.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi Sandi, good to hear from you. I am going crazy! I swing from detaching.. to I want my W back!
I know I should not have done it but last night I lost my cool and brought up MR. W in family room sitting on couch and told me she just added all the events/activities into our family calendar.. that was my lead in and I asked in a respective voice if she wanted to spend the holidays with OM and she said, no. My reply was, "he texted you on our family vacation". Her reply was, "I can't stop him from texting" then she caught herself and said, "well, I could". What was different this time, for the first time, I could feel myself loosing control and getting upset at the entire sit (did not yell but dropped a few f bombs).
I realize I am the one who is hurting; not her. It's what I do that makes a difference not the conversations. The conversation does not reveal new insight but I want to share a few comments W made (in no particular order) as she crys (W rarely tears but does when she tells me the following): 1. You were not there for me (I agreed based on the examples W shares to make her case; I see her viewpoint now). 2. I have been alone for a long time. You only feel like this now because I am not in your corner anymore. 3. You would not have changed if it was not for the affair (She is probably correct. W always refers to affair in past tense.. but she talks to OM). 4. The abortion broke/changed me.
She asked me questions that caught me off guard: 1. I made a comment like "you not the woman I married". She replied "you are right.. I never would have imagined I would have had an affair or an abortion at 40. Why do you want to be with me then"? I did not respond. 2. I made a comment like "this is a f@#! situation we created for ourselves". Her reply was like, "how do you suggest we fix it"? I just replied it would not be easy.
Towards the end of the conversation she said, "I do not know what I want. You should do want makes you happy do not wait for me. It may be 2, 3, 5 years before I know and I may regret it". She acknowledged she is the one who has to do the work to make the change but also said she could not get back to me (hinting to how she views me.. as a selfish individual and was never there for her).
This stinks because I see that she needs to give up OM then and only then does it have a change to work. But her personality is to take the path of least resistance and the resentment she holds is so strong.. she often said her heart turned cold.
Thanks for the posting re: kids and adult sit. That said, I am just going crazy and probably would not do such thing as bring kids into it.
Awhile back (before I found this website) I had my suspicion of A and some solid evident but would be the fool and believe W's lies. So I took a lesson from kids' schooling and started to journal. The journal started off as facts but turned into a journal where the audience was my kids. W found it on computer.. deleted it.. held that against me for awhile. Never indented to share with kids but it helped me cope with my feelings/thoughts at that time.
I am at the early/mid phase of detaching but lost it. I suppose seeing the OM text W on our family road trip brought back a rush of memories of seeing my W's text messages to OM on summer family vacation (she sent him the icon with kisses and hearts).. I never got those! How they interacted (as if strangers) when we walked pasted him at the theme park brought back the same behavior I witnessed at S10 baseball games... to know I handed over my hard earn $$ for S10 baseball to OM and to learn OM with my W..
Crazy is normal, Not good just normal. It is one of the many emotional states you will go through until you stabilize.
When people say they are on a rollercoaster ride they mean it.
The unfortunate thing is that damage control goes out the window. Consequences are no longer an issue. You have an objective and dont give a sh1t about them.
If you read the posts here, whatever your sex, there is a pattern we all start off from when BD hits. As men and women are wired differently the recovery may be similar but the day to day i think is different.
In your case i understand you and feel for you. I know what you are going through. Unfortunately as my parents also split up when I was young I also know what it feels like to a LBC (left behind child). I know what it is to be dragged into a slagging match and artillery barrage of negative emotions between 2 people who hate each other. I am supposed to attack/defend 2 opposing forces that I loved, both of them. It is cruel and I always advocate that children are not leverage.
I am also against the WS/WAS that also leave the children behind or those that use custody as a tool to effect injury to the other party because they are emotionally immature.
Zero tolerance.
When I read your posts I was disappointed you had chosen that option. Please stop it period. No excuses.
Going back to you. You are still a loooong way to go to be detached. It sounds easy, people vent and then mention it as a mental reminder but truth is even the pro's are hit with emotional arrows everytime that the S says something that triggers off a memory. We are human, make mistakes and have feelings. The thing is you STILL need to do it and also GAL. Until you start enforcing them for some time you will not see any benefits. When you do, it is like someone tuned on a LED in a tunnel to lead the way out.
In the meantime you will feel pain, as you are now, be lost and confused. Don't worry, help is at hand. From those that know a lot to those who just offer support, you will feel comforted, helped and cared for by the people here. And no I am not the forum PR.
Your W has her mind on the OM. He is the new love of her life. As simple as that. She quit her job as your W and fired you as her H. Now she has feelings for someone else. When a W goes rogue I understand that the chances and probability of getting her back are very small.
Women are emotional creatures and our logic and way of thinking is different. We speak in mathematics, logic and equations, etc. They speak poetry, latin, etc. What we think should work generally doesnt if we think like a man.
You are thinking like a man dont. If you understand what is going through her head when she sends those messages and icons you will have a grasp what it is she is missing or looking for. The OM just hit the jackpot with your W. [censored].
When I first found out about my W EAPA i hit the roof. Truth is after some nice conversations and posts from members I realized I ignited it. I had a PA some time ago that made my W feel unloved and she got into an EAPA. She also sent icons and lovey messages to OM and never to me in all these years. Why? I never made her feel loved and desired. Focusing my attention on my OW I neglected my W who felt this and drifted until she met OM. It started as a friendly R but I know guys and if we see a vulnerable woman we go into stereo mode and think with both our heads.
I am not saying what she did was right, same as what I did was wrong but after some deep soul searching I realized in all honesty i cant throw that stone. I also realized that I was and am not the guy I thought I was.
So how do I expect to get icons and messages again? First off, dont expect anything. Expect means that you think you will achieve your goals at the end of the day. In these cases you have NO guarantees.
Rephrase it to how can I get my wife to want to sext me. As an example not final goal.
Your first obstacle is the OM. While he has her attention you are on the sidelines. I said this before... you are now the waterboy and going head to head with the quaterback. You have to start working on yourself in all ways possible. Emotionally and physically. Here is where detaching and GAL get into play. One thing... do not do it with one eye on the road and the other on your W. That will just wear you down, it changes the motivation from doing something to improve yourself to something to get a reaction from W. The less she reacts if at all, the quicker you wear down the motivation.
If you flip it around and work on yourself for yourself you will see change and that will INCREASE motivation to continue. It is through this change that your W will hopefully start to see a change in you.
We mention here dropping the rope, read up on it, it works. The moment your W sees you have shifted your interest to something else and she is no longer in your scope it may also puzzle her. Put everything in the mix, fast forward some time and she sees a change in you for the better as well as a chance to lose you. Here is where you may start to have a fighting chance of a new R with your W.
One thing that people forget as did I... you dont want your old MR back. It didnt work so why want it back? If you have become 123 2.0 and your W wants in, she has already changed. Remember she has started sexting, some feelings have woken up. Hopefully your W will be W 2.0 in MR 2.0.
While you still use the words, how could she, why should I, i remember, she did this, she did that, after all that i... you get the picture. You will not advance.
She has taken you to the cleaners emotionally but you still want her back so stop reminiscing about the past and understand that interactions from her with OM are normal ... for a person in that state. It does hurt and will for some time but that is the price. That is why I always think we should sit down and see if it is worth it. Go through all this to get a person sexting or sleeping with someone else. Once we decide then we need sheer determination to move ahead and it will be like walking against a gale force wind with emotional debris socking it to us every step of the way.
Ok, so now I have painted a rosy picture of your future, think about your next steps. You will need a LOT of patience as these things take time, months and months or longer. Each one to his own level of patience before quitting or admitting there is no way to get the s back.
One final thing, she CAN stop him from texting her. It is called cuting ties and she could do that with a message or call. If he insists then it is harrasement or stalking and comes into the jurisdiction of the p1ssed off and protective husband.
While I will never advocate violence I do find that explaining to someone the irresistible force paradox or as the chinese flics call it clench fist v pretty cheekbone to the OM does yield results.
I will get hammered by pros but hope to have been of help.
I did something that exposed OM. It was not the right move at least for me.
When W verbally acknowledged the EA and PA I lost it. I created a blog about the OM (never mentioned W). But I pointed out who the OM was and posted pictures of his text to W (it showed his cell number); very sext explicit. I only called out the A.
I forgot about the blog and a few months passed. OM found out about blog, calls my W, and W goes off on me saying how could I do such a thing.. that his daughter might see it.. that people may put it together and know it was her.. (my thought was.. I don't know or care about his daughter.. how would they know it was W specifically). I deleted the blog that night but perhaps, I should have kept it up since legally OM and/or W cannot do anything about it.
That blog probably gave W and OM more fuel for the A.
I found this website and learned of DB after that event. I think had I found this site 2 years ago (when I first confronted W about OM) DB would have made a difference.
