Where to begin? Part 2

[Thornton]

I totally understand your feelings, E.

That being said, what reason would WAW have to come back to you if she can be single and have you at the same time?

That's what we call cake eating around here. If you are ok with never having her respect, allowing her to do what she pleases when she pleases, and you get to occasionally see her and spend time with her, and then feel crappy afterward and long for her until the next time she has time to fit you in her calendar, that's really your call.

Not trying to be a jerk, E. But we're going to keep it real with you.

Dude, I know how bad this stuff hurts. It's excruciating. I remember telling my friends I would rather have someone break both my legs with a crow bar than to go through this pain.

There's no way around the pain, my friend. You have to go through it to get to the other side.

Do you have a therapist of counselor you can talk with? Have you been to the doctor to see if anti-depressants make sense?

Make it through today. And then start over and make it through tomorrow. There were days I didn't know if I would last until the end of the day. In those instances, I made goals to make it through the hour, and then another hour.

You're not alone. We have all been there.

[Dawgs]

Thank you, Thornton. It's almost as if you are my guardian angel keeping me in check.

That's what we call cake eating around here. If you are ok with never having her respect, allowing her to do what she pleases when she pleases, and you get to occasionally see her and spend time with her, and then feel crappy afterward and long for her until the next time she has time to fit you in her calendar, that's really your call.

I understand that totally. Our situation is like this: The base is roughly an hour away with no traffic, meaning she usually gets home between 6 and 630 (not including duty days that require more hours) at the latest on rare days. We usually put the kids down around 8. She usually falls asleep by the time the kids do, so there really isn't all that much contact now. The weekends, we take the kids and do stuff with them or just stay home and yard/house work. That's pretty much it, except with the rare occasion of us doing something like earlier this week. She doesn't go out on the weekends, either, unless it is with us. You are right, I do feel crappy and long for her...

Not trying to be a jerk, E. But we're going to keep it real with you.

Ya'll aren't being one at all. In fact, the harsher the better for me.

Do you have a therapist of counselor you can talk with? Have you been to the doctor to see if anti-depressants make sense?

I do have an IC that I see weekly. She is awesome and also tells me like it is. Not only about the relationship (actually, that's pretty little of our talk), but we mainly talk about me and making me better.

Make it through today. And then start over and make it through tomorrow. There were days I didn't know if I would last until the end of the day. In those instances, I made goals to make it through the hour, and then another hour.

That's what I do. Or try to, anyway. Sometimes I just hate things.

[Thornton]

I remember I had a few vets that kept it real with me and it was so hard to follow their advice. My mind resisted their advice at the cellular level. They weren't blinded by the pain I was feeling.

The LBS is also in a fog, E. The pain you are experiencing really changes the way you view things.

Something interesting often happens when a WAS wants to reconcile with the LBS. The LBS suddenly feels VERY angry and looks at the WAS differently, almost like they have lost respect for them and they aren't as attractive anymore. It's because the fog lifts and we realize our WAS isn't perfect like we had thought the whole time they were gone.

Now we are now seeing clearly, and we start to think "why in the hell did I put up with that BS?!?!" "I allowed my WAS to walk all over me and I asked for another serving again, and again, and again!"

This is exactly what happened when my wife left me 15 years ago. I would have literally done ANYTHING to get her back. Short of murder, I would have done anything!

I hurt so bad, for so long. Guess what happened.. she wanted me back.

A weird shift occurred, almost immediately. After everything she put me through, played with my emotions, toyed with my heart and dangled reconciliation in front of me like a carrot to a donkey. I felt ANGRY. I mean searing anger.

Why was this happening? This is what I was hoping for, for so long! I tried to overlook all these feelings and tried again with her.

It was too late. I could see clearly now. She wasn't worth it anymore. She was abusive, manipulative, and all she wanted was to use me again.

SHE had become the LBS! And SHE did the begging, crying, threatening to kill herself, and stalking! I couldn't have been more turned off by her.

My point is this, YOU are in the fog. Maybe even more so than your W.

You will see clearly again my friend. Once the fog lifts..

[dday]

Great post thorn

[Dawgs]

Thank you again, Thornton! You are so correct on the fog I am in.

So this weekend was pretty uneventful on the home front. On Saturday, the W had duty so she was at work while I kept the kids (BTW, by far I am the primary caregiver). That night I went over to some friend's and watched the game, which was a lot of fun. Raised an eyebrow, so that must good, eh?
On Sunday we did some family stuff by taking the kids to a pumpkin patch and let them pick out their pumpkins for Halloween. We all had a great time.

I wonder if the W's fog may be starting to lift a little. It seems as if the way she is treating me is changing. For example, in a post on her social media site she tagged me for the first time since before the BD. Maybe I am reading her actions wrong, but they seem more responsive to me. Heck, some of her texts yesterday were way more family oriented. Who knows. Guess we will find out in our next session tomorrow. I learned to not believe anything she says, but if those are signs then I don't know what is.

Honestly, I go back and forth between us having a chance - even a small one - to no chance at all. Just the way my mind works. She told me she hasn't contacted a L or filed, so we will see. Sometimes I alternate between feelings of dread and being at peace. I know that reading into things is not healthy, but I really don't know how to stop that.

One thing I find myself torn with is what level of "friendliness" do I need to be treating her with, especially when we do family things together? I know I need to be nice, friendly, and all that, but if she truly is planning on filing, then I don't want to be placed in the friend zone. I know there is a fine line with being "friends" or "friendly" and I definitely don't want her to put me in that zone. What is the best way to avoid becoming a "friend" like that? I don't want her to get comfortable in that aspect, because we all know how being friend zone is...

[Dawgs]

More journal time.

So, we had another counseling session last night and for the first time in any of our sessions I wasn't "attacked." It seemed our session went well. A lot of it was focused on some of the communication issues we had and discussed how they damaged our M, but it seemed neutral and neither positive nor attacking. When the counselor asked how things were and all (including her "space"), she answered that they were going well and didn't say anything negative (or positive).

She talked about our separation and how she didn't know if it would feel like a "real separation" when she comes home on the weekends from her base. I will say that she is persuaded easily and it seems that she tends to fall back on her research, especially considering military couples and separation/divorce. The counselor sort of pressed her on this, and it seemed that she still stuck to her feelings but it just didn't have that edge to it, if that makes sense.

It was an odd session. Almost seemed kind of upbeat and there wasn't any sadness/attacking/etc. I just don't know what to think on it.

So, I was thinking of talking to her a bit so want to run it by everyone on here first. Would these things be bad to say?
"It was an excellent session about the communication problems we had. We really have been communicating better lately (actually, we have) and it seems that we both understand things a lot more, now. Sure, we had children quick and didn't get to experience the M just between us, but that doesn't mean that it isn't repairable. Divorce isn't the answer and we can do this."

Or something to that effect. I have come to trust the advice given on here - what does everyone think? Is that a talk that should happen or is that pursuing? Maybe her fog is lifting a little, but I just can't tell.

About me now: I am continuing to work on myself with counseling, but also more time doing things by myself, too. That's how I think best - either running, lifting weights, yard work, etc.

It seems that my frame of mind has changed a good bit over this week or so. While I still get the crazy tinges of being all over the place emotion-wise, I don't get that as much. I find that I can think more clearly now.

Is it odd that at times I am angry with her, yet still want nothing more than keep this M intact? Sometimes I feel guilty about that..I love her more than life itself, yet at times I am angry. Maybe I am just rambling again...

[Thornton]

Hey E,

Great job coming here first.

I wouldn't have the relationship talks until you are certain you will get a positive response. If you are unsure, leave it alone. This is outlined in the DR book.

Give her some time to digest what was said with the counselor. If you have the talks with her, that will feel like pressure and pursuing to her.

You will know without a doubt when the tides have changed. She will come to you with relationship talks.

Keep being patient, you don't want to scare her off.

[Dawgs]

Good morning, Thornton! Thank you for stopping in and sharing your help and wisdom!

I am learning! May be slow, but am getting there. Patience is not my forte, sir! But I am trying. So far she hasn't brought any relationship talks up. Patience...

She mentioned something in our session last night about about the separation, space, and all and said something to the effect of not knowing how to make things work again (I can't recall exactly). I wanted to tell her that just have to try and let things happen. Guess that wouldn't have been a good thing to say, eh?

[Dawgs]

So, just got back from my own counseling session (she is the same counselor that sees us both).

When I walked in, the first thing she asked was what I thought about our couples session last night. I told her that it seemed to go well. My counselor seemed to think that my W's fog is lifting. For example, she mentioned the fact that my W was adamant about me coming down to her family's for the holidays. She also said there were a lot of little things, expressions, and actions that told her, too. We have been going to this counselor for quite a while now and both of us really like her.

We came up with a plan - keep doing what I am doing because she thinks it is working. Now I didn't tell her about the DB techniques, I just called them different things. Also, she said to keep working on the friendship part and rebuilding the emotional connection. She - as everyone on here - said to keep any relationship talk out of it and to let the W decide when to start talking about that (I swear its like she is reading this place). But that friendship and emotional connection was key, and they are so very intertwined.

My counselor is great. We also spent a good deal of time discussing the book Codependent No More that she let me borrow. She has been great in helping me to see a lot the things I was doing and helped me to discover why, which is really the key for me.

Guys, I want to say that its as if I feel a new and better me. Of course, there are still tinges of the wild emotion ride, but I feel a whole lot better about myself and things. She said she could tell and that she thinks the W notices, too. She mentioned how the W joked with me last night and touched my arm (which I completely forgot about).

My goal is keep working on myself and becoming the best person I can be. Tonight I will try to run for five miles and then some other exercises, too. I am going to get back to when I was in the best shape of my life!

[beckyb]

I'm glad to hear things seem to be moving in a positive direction. Stay the course.