Now that my wife and I are in this situation where we live in the same house but effectively separated, how do I know that I am doing something to address my needs and not doing something out of spite/resentment? How do I know if I'm being unreasonable? (Yes, totally sounds like Nice Guy™ script)
Is it simply a matter of saying "This is what I want. If you have a competing need, then you need to find a way to meet it without my cooperation"? Should I simply stop worrying about what she wants and just assert my own?
The best example is that I want her to stop playing golf and going to one of her activities because both can be associated with the OM. She sees them as a way she can release stress and do something for herself but I feel like the association with the OM is so strong that engaging in them now is disrespectful to me. I can't control her actions, but a boundary I can introduce is refusing to watch the kids while she does these things. Seems reasonable, but I know it'll result in a blowout. Worth it though, right? I just hate to go backward because she did try to engage me more yesterday.
The best example is that I want her to stop playing golf and going to one of her activities because both can be associated with the OM. She sees them as a way she can release stress and do something for herself but I feel like the association with the OM is so strong that engaging in them now is disrespectful to me. I can't control her actions, but a boundary I can introduce is refusing to watch the kids while she does these things. Seems reasonable, but I know it'll result in a blowout. Worth it though, right? I just hate to go backward because she did try to engage me more yesterday.
Let me make sure I am reading you correctly - is she playing golf with the OM? Or is she just playing golf? Golf really isn't the issue. The bigger question, though, is she still involved with the OM? If not, then trying to stop her from playing golf (once again, as long as it isn't with the OM) wouldn't be a good idea. In fact, that would come across as very controlling, which would be a bad idea.
If she is still involved with the OM, then that is a whole separate issue than golf. First, that needs to be dealt with - like others have said earlier, either the family or the OM, but not both.
Let me ask you this, you two are separated, right? What is the goal of the separation? Is it to work on yourselves and to try to figure out where your M is heading? Or is it just a precursor to D? That boundary needs to be set, otherwise you will be in limbo.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
I agree it seems controlling which is why I've avoided bringing it up. To my knowledge she is not playing golf with the OM. She's just been going to the driving range. Of course, I can't confirm that. She also told me that both she and the OM have agreed to not talk so that we can focus on our marriage. She's told me that before though. She also said that before I discovered the birthday gift she bought him and before she told me that they drove together, alone, to an after-hours work function. She knows where I stand on her contact with OM and I guess that's all I can do for now. When I learned of those things I put my foot down one last time and told her no contact meant absolutely no contact outside of work and if it happens again, I will file. I'm willing to do that now.
As for separation, we don't have a legal separation. We sleep in separate rooms and maintain minimal contact with the exception of the occasional activity we do as a family. She goes from being extremely cold and avoidant to engaging in conversation like nothing has changed. That's frustrating and heart wrenching.
What we're doing now is seeing a MC. She has told me that she agreed to see the MC because she wants to know if she can feel love for me again. If I take that at face value, maybe it means she wants to see where the M is going.
We had some pretty enlightening observations in our last MC session about how we both were asking for the same things in our marriage but always seemed to be too out of sync to realize it and fix them. The anger, resentment, and distance were the result of the past 6 months to a year. Everything in our lives was upended. We had childcare problems, financial stresses, significant changes in both our careers, my depression, and the eventual relationship stresses born from everything else. It was one thing after another and while I was able to recover quickly and move on after a fight, she wasn't. We learned it takes her much longer to accept/forgive after a fight. She would put up a front that everything was fine but since she never had enough time to deal with it before the next hit came, the anger grew into resentment. That's one of the reasons why I was so taken by surprise when she told me she didn't love me and needed space. We had been flirting, sending loving messages, etc. up until that day.
Our current plan in MC is to figure out a strategy for improving communication and solving problems. Once that's done, the MC believes we'll be better equipped to discuss the infidelity. We have one last joint MC session before our therapist sees us individually. I feel like MC is at least helping her better understand how we got to where we are and maybe after the individual session she'll better understand her role, How that relates to the issue of infidelity and the OM is yet to be seen. I guess that's why I'm trying to make time my friend and am reluctant to push too hard. At the same time, it's almost like MC is an opportunity for her to identify things she needs to fix for her next relationship.
I feel at times like I'm being walked all over, but maybe that's just me being hurt and hypersensitive. I sometimes wonder if I'm looking to find something I can request of her so that I can feel like I'm doing something to gain her respect. Maybe that's the reason for my recent rollercoaster.
M: Late 30s W:Late 30s S: 4 D:2
Known: 19 Together:8 Married:5
ILYINILWY: 8/2015 EA: Confirmed 9/2015, Started 8/2015? PA: No evidence, W Denies D: Planned for Spring 2016
Even if we're able to move forward and she becomes interested in piecing together our marriage, the biggest issue will continue be her ability sever contact with the OM and become more transparent.
There will be an opportunity for either her or the OM to be relocated to a different office early next year. That gives me some hope, but her stance from the start is that she doesn't want to lose the friendship she has with the OM and wishes that we could somehow become best friends. I'm sure you can imagine my response to that.
It has and always will come down to the choice of our family or the OM. My goal now is to take advantage of whatever time I have to make the choice for our family the easy one.
She also told me that both she and the OM have agreed to not talk so that we can focus on our marriage. She's told me that before though. She also said that before I discovered the birthday gift she bought him and before she told me that they drove together, alone, to an after-hours work function. She knows where I stand on her contact with OM and I guess that's all I can do for now. When I learned of those things I put my foot down one last time and told her no contact meant absolutely no contact outside of work and if it happens again, I will file.
Something isn't adding up. Maybe others can chime in, though. Maybe if she is telling the truth, it wouldn't hurt to get her to become fully transparent. But then again, a burner phone and private email could take care of that. Anybody else want to add to this?
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As for separation, we don't have a legal separation. We sleep in separate rooms and maintain minimal contact with the exception of the occasional activity we do as a family. She goes from being extremely cold and avoidant to engaging in conversation like nothing has changed. That's frustrating and heart wrenching
I really wasn't referring to a legal separation, more like "this is how I see our separation going." I think it serve both of you well to identify just what the goal of the separation is. We defined our separation as this: to work on ourselves and also to work on what our R will be - in other words, two definable goals. That has made it much clearer and maybe a little easier for me, but that remains to be seen.
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What we're doing now is seeing a MC. She has told me that she agreed to see the MC because she wants to know if she can feel love for me again. If I take that at face value, maybe it means she wants to see where the M is going.
Very, very, very much like what my W said. Mine said the same thing, and then a few months later said she was done and was going to file, and then wanted to go back to separation. Just take it for what it's worth and let actions speak for themselves.
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At the same time, it's almost like MC is an opportunity for her to identify things she needs to fix for her next relationship.
What????
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I feel at times like I'm being walked all over, but maybe that's just me being hurt and hypersensitive. I sometimes wonder if I'm looking to find something I can request of her so that I can feel like I'm doing something to gain her respect. Maybe that's the reason for my recent rollercoaster.
That may very well be, especially if she is still seeing the OM. If she isn't, then why are you feeling that way? Don't make any request of her - thats like asking if she notices any changes in you. Bad idea. You just have to show her - and that, my friend, takes time. Sometimes a lot of it.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
There will be an opportunity for either her or the OM to be relocated to a different office early next year. That gives me some hope, but her stance from the start is that she doesn't want to lose the friendship she has with the OM and wishes that we could somehow become best friends. I'm sure you can imagine my response to that.
That is very, very unreasonable. Does she still feel that way? If so, then she wants her cake and to eat it, too. This is where you will have make what probably will be the hardest decision of your life. If she is unwilling to sever the relationship with the OM, then that is very telling. Not saying that she may be somehow telling the truth, but it sure would make it very hard to believe and trust. Don't know what else to say on that one...
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
When the time comes, if she can't sever the relationship with the OM, then I'm confident that I will be able to sever the marriage and friendship that she and I have. It will hurt like hell and make co-parenting a challenge, but I absolutely will not tolerate him in my life in any way.
M: Late 30s W:Late 30s S: 4 D:2
Known: 19 Together:8 Married:5
ILYINILWY: 8/2015 EA: Confirmed 9/2015, Started 8/2015? PA: No evidence, W Denies D: Planned for Spring 2016
When the time comes, if she can't sever the relationship with the OM, then I'm confident that I will be able to sever the marriage and friendship that she and I have. It will hurt like hell and make co-parenting a challenge, but I absolutely will not tolerate him in my life in any way.
Excellent, sir! I truly hope that what you wishes comes true. Its a very tough road to travel upon, and one I have wanted to give up on many times - and probably many more, too. One reason why I love this site so much is that they don't beat around the bush, give tough love when needed, and always supportive. Great place!
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
It seems I managed to walk into a relationship discussion/argument tonight. My wife asked if it would be okay to attend an out of town conference. I asked her if she would be going alone or if the OM would also be going. Her response was that she didn't know if he was, but it was possible. She then begrudgingly admitted that she wouldn't go if he did. That was good to hear.
Then the discussion progressed to the fact that working with him was unavoidable. I told her that I would not be in a relationship with three people. The discussion moved on to some of the propose organizational/career changes she could be facing and that she mentioned that it was possible that should could end up sharing an office with him. At that point i told her I would not be comfortable with that and if I had my way, he would relocate to another office in town. She said she could not order him to do that nor would she since he he's been there longer and had close ties to everyone there.
That's when I said that she could also move. She took offense to that and said she wasn't going to abandon her career. I told her that at some point we would need to make a decision about this and she may end up being forced to decide between our family and the OM or our family and her career in that office. That didn't go so well either. She repeatedly said If that's the case". Why don't we just end it now. You want me to leave my career. You think that's good for our family?"
I told her I had no problem ending our marriage if she wanted to choose the OM over our family. She said our problems weren't about him and complained that I always brought him into it. I told her that while we have our own issues, she brought him into our problems when she chose to have an EA with him. I'm concerned the conversation may have been interpreted as inconsistent with previous discussions and controlling behavior, but I stood my ground.
