LBH w/ a WW trying to save my M

[gs9]

On Saturday morning she gave me a hard time saying we needed to create a schedule of who was going to watch our daughter bc I was gone thurs night, friday night and was going to be gone Sunday afternoon. She said it wasn't fair. I said sleeping with another man isn't fair either as I pulled away. She then sent this text message which I felt was a little confusing

"I spent over an hour yesterday with my IC and by saying this I am not trying in anyway to reconcile. I am not sleeping w anyone!!!!! But honestly, I don't care what you think. If it makes you feel better about yourself, think whatever you want about me"

I said
"I came home thurs. No one was home and I left. I went out last night. You have plans today/tonight. I have plans tomorrow."

She said
" I don't care that you're not around. We just need to make a a schedule"

Here are my thoughts. She mentioned her IC and reconciliation bc they are talking about it and it's not off the table. It's being considered. When she said "if it makes you feel better about yourself" she thinks I'm seeing someone bc I've been gone from the house so much and she does care that I'm away from the house a lot or she wouldn't mention it.

Any thoughts out there?

[gs9]

Well....tried to write this late last night and didn't get it all in. When she was going through the divorce paperwork and I was asking questions about it she said " last week you said you didn't want this divorce and now you're all gung ho about it"
I then stopped, sat down and told her " I do not want a divorce. I do not want a marriage like we had and I believe we could have a very healthy marriage". She said "Well your behaviors are not making me want to stay M. I don't know who you're getting advice from but kicking me out of the bedroom makes me Hate you and further enforces I'm doing the right thing. You being gone all the time and not spending time with the family makes me feel like you don't want to be around us."

[gs9]

There was a lot said this weekend and some of it very confusing to me. I would love some insight if anyone can provide it.

1. Twice this weekend she told me she is not having an affair. She said she is not spending time with, sleeping with or even kissing anyone else. I think I believe her bc She has not been going out very often. Only once this last week. She didn't come home until 4:45 am but it wouldn't be unusually for her to go to her girlfriends, have some drinks, sleep a bit before coming home. I know she is still talking to OM and did spend the night with him at least once about 4 weeks ago. I'm inclined to believe there isn't a PA but I'm pretty sure there is still a EA.

2. In a rant she said that kicking her out of the MBR has made her uncomfortable. That whenever the boys sleep over (they're my stepsons) S14 is sleeping on the floor and that whoever I'm getting advice from doesn't know her bc this has made her hate me and makes her believe I do not want to be M. I told her there are plenty of beds and she could sleep in the basement or one of the other bedrooms. She said the boys do not want her to. I said "well this is bc of your choices. I'm creating boundaries for myself. I do not want a divorce. I am not the one leaving the marriage so I'm not leaving the house or the martial bedroom. She is leaving the M so she can leave the house too."
I hope this boundary is still a good strategy.

3. In the same rant she said I need to stop going to the gym so often, putting on my cologne to go out and clean the house. My question is how often should I be going out? I do help around the house but my W is a cleaning machine. How do I balance giving her space, being around enough to show I want to stay in the M, detaching, GAL-ing, showing tough love, not being a jerk for not helping with the cleaning? Or....do I make a statement like this "honoring your cleaning request, being around for dinner and family time, not going out or to the gym every night are things a H would do. When you start acting like my W I'll start treating you as my W." ?

4. Why would she say "I spent over an hour with my IC and by saying this I am not trying in any way to reconcile. I am not sleeping with anyone!!!! But honestly, I don't care what you think. If it makes you feel better about yourself, think whatever you want about me." ?
Is it bc her IC is telling her she should R? Is she being nice to me, not fighting to get back in the MBR and being so emphatic about not having an affair bc she believes I might be seeing someone and she's afraid to push me further away? She's afraid she's losing me?
5. I feel like I'm making progress with the detaching and setting boundaries. I feel I'm pushing her away but periodically reminding her that I do not want a divorce, I want and believe we can have a very healthy M. Should I stop reminding her that I do not want this divorce? Does making statements like that hurt my detaching efforts? Should I continue detaching at my current pace? Is it too intensive or not intensive enough?

[gs9]

More questions. I know the longer I can drag out our divorce the better chance we have of R. She filed on 9.14.2015. She scheduled our first mediation for 10.7.2015. We have our initial status conference on 10.20.2015. She's hoping we can have every thing done by mid December. How do I slow this down with out getting into litigation and costing us a ton of money?

[gs9]

I realize I'm posting a lot. It's been a confusing week and a lot has happened and I just had another WOW moment.

My family use to go to church on a very regular basis. WW has only gone to church once with us and once with a girlfriend since her A 4 months ago. I've also been able to get her to watch it online with us once. Every week I continue to tell her when I'm going to be taking out daughter and asking if she would like to join us. I have also periodically throughout the week asked her if she would like me to load it on the TV so she could watch church. I told her last night I would set it up if she wanted me to. She didn't respond. On my way into work this morning she called to discuss schedules this week. I told her I might go watch Monday Night Football but if she wanted to watch church I would come home and set it up for her instead. She said she didn't mind if I went to watch football. When I arrived at work I sent a txt saying "I'm praying for you".

Sorry for all the details but here is the "Wow Moment". She just sent a txt that said "I'm sorry that I cussed at you yesterday." Now that may not be surprising to some people but my WW cusses at me on regular basis and she has not apologized to me for anything in well over a year. What in the world is going on?

[gs9]

More questions?
1. I order both Divorce busting and Divorce remedy through Amazon. Divorce Remedy said it was delivered on Saturday to my work but no such luck. Any idea which stores I should be able to buy this in?

2. I've reclaimed the MBR and asked WW to leave. She has refused so far. She said she is not going to take the kids to an apartment. How much pressure should I apply here with out being a huge jerk?

[sandi2]

I meant to have a "not" in this sentence:

When a woman has been in and out of affairs during the M, and treated her H with contempt...........she does not want to hear how he still wants to be M to her. Her disdain will rise higher.

Twice this weekend she told me she is not having an affair. She said she is not spending time with, sleeping with or even kissing anyone else. I think I believe her bc She has not been going out very often. Only once this last week. She didn't come home until 4:45 am but it wouldn't be unusually for her to go to her girlfriends, have some drinks, sleep a bit before coming home. I know she is still talking to OM and did spend the night with him at least once about 4 weeks ago. I'm inclined to believe there isn't a PA but I'm pretty sure there is still a EA.

Sure you want to believe her. All H's do. But this is a cheater's word, right? How do you know that she was at a GF's house till 4:45 am? Don't take the GF's word for it, or your WW's. Girl friends cover for one another.

Do you consider contacting OM and having an EA....is an affair?

In a rant she said that kicking her out of the MBR has made her uncomfortable. That whenever the boys sleep over (they're my stepsons) S14 is sleeping on the floor and that whoever I'm getting advice from doesn't know her bc this has made her hate me and makes her believe I do not want to be M.

So much for you assuring her that you don't want a D.

Maybe I have a suspicious nature, but it wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't found your posts. She knows you are acting differently, so she suspects you are being instructed in what to do. It just sounds a bit too odd how she worded it, if those were her exact words. Be careful, it happens! Unless you've taken precaution to delete your computer history, she very likely has read what has been said. Either that, or it's a lucky guess.

BTW, this is all part of a WW telling her H that she had started thinking about things differently, until he went and did this ______ (fill in the blank). "I was going to give you another chance, but not after you've done this!" As if to hold that over you. It is pure manipulation. The WW is extremely talented at manipulation. The H is trying so hard and when she tells him that, he thinks, "Oh crap, I've ruined my chances. What was I thinking? I'll have to prove to her how badly I want this to work". Manipulation! That is the name of her game.

She wanted space, so you are giving her space, right? But she wants it on her terms.

I do help around the house but my W is a cleaning machine. How do I balance giving her space, being around enough to show I want to stay in the M, detaching, GAL-ing, showing tough love, not being a jerk for not helping with the cleaning? Or....do I make a statement like this "honoring your cleaning request, being around for dinner and family time, not going out or to the gym every night are things a H would do. When you start acting like my W I'll start treating you as my W." ?

I don't think it will help to tell her. The biggest thing is to stop trying to win her. Stop trying to make brownie points with housekeeping. Stop trying to convince her of anything or try to trade out with her. You can't make her be a good wife by telling her what you will do in return. (However, I know what are saying in the above. It's not that it's wrong, but it just won't work). None of this will matter to her, even if she slings it back in your face when she gets mad. You cannot please her! She will twist and turn everything. These are the most usual mistakes that newcomer LBH's make with a WW. What does work, is when you stop acting as if you care. Not like a cold jerk kind of way. I mean, if she was sick you'd care, but you know what I mean. Have a nonchalant attitude and move forward.

When she feels she is losing you......instead of you losing her, then that begins to change the dynamics in the R. So far, she hasn't felt worried she's losing you, has she?

Why would she say "I spent over an hour with my IC and by saying this I am not trying in any way to reconcile. I am not sleeping with anyone!!!! But honestly, I don't care what you think. If it makes you feel better about yourself, think whatever you want about me." ?
Is it bc her IC is telling her she should R? Is she being nice to me, not fighting to get back in the MBR and being so emphatic about not having an affair bc she believes I might be seeing someone and she's afraid to push me further away? She's afraid she's losing me?

Who knows! Just don't believe what she says.

5. I feel like I'm making progress with the detaching and setting boundaries. I feel I'm pushing her away but periodically reminding her that I do not want a divorce, I want and believe we can have a very healthy M. Should I stop reminding her that I do not want this divorce? Does making statements like that hurt my detaching efforts? Should I continue detaching at my current pace? Is it too intensive or not intensive enough?

I'm just against reminding a wayward that you don't want a divorce. She knows it. It can void so much of the work you do, to come behind it with another, "But I don't want a divorce". She does not have a bad memory! It assures her that you are very much attached. No, I don't think your detaching efforts are too intense, b/c you're still attached. See what I mean? As long as you are concerned about detaching too much, you aren't detaching enough. However, I think you are off to a good start.

Have you really read the detachment link?

[gs9]

Sandi
Thank you so much. I'm having a really hard day. This last week she has actually been civil to me most of the time and I know if I'm getting the results I want then I should continue the actions getting those results. Detach, detach, detach.
Dang it!!!! I know better than to let my guard down.

Twice this weekend she told me she is not having an affair. She said she is not spending time with, sleeping with or even kissing anyone else. I think I believe her bc She has not been going out very often. Only once this last week. She didn't come home until 4:45 am but it wouldn't be unusually for her to go to her girlfriends, have some drinks, sleep a bit before coming home. I know she is still talking to OM and did spend the night with him at least once about 4 weeks ago. I'm inclined to believe there isn't a PA but I'm pretty sure there is still a EA.

Sure you want to believe her. All H's do. But this is a cheater's word, right? How do you know that she was at a GF's house till 4:45 am? Don't take the GF's word for it, or your WW's. Girl friends cover for one another.

I don't know and I didn't ask. And I've been thinking I hope she did spend time with OM so she can see he is not half the man I am. That's what happened with her first A.

Do you consider contacting OM and having an EA....is an affair?

I do consider it an affair. Any contact with OM is still unacceptable and to not be tolerated.

In a rant she said that kicking her out of the MBR has made her uncomfortable. That whenever the boys sleep over (they're my stepsons) S14 is sleeping on the floor and that whoever I'm getting advice from doesn't know her bc this has made her hate me and makes her believe I do not want to be M.

So much for you assuring her that you don't want a D.

Maybe I have a suspicious nature, but it wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't found your posts. She knows you are acting differently, so she suspects you are being instructed in what to do. It just sounds a bit too odd how she worded it, if those were her exact words. Be careful, it happens! Unless you've taken precaution to delete your computer history, she very likely has read what has been said. Either that, or it's a lucky guess.

She couldn't have found the posts. The only computer I've used to post from is at work until late last night I used the home computer. I made sure to clear the history.

She does know I see my IC weekly and I talk regularly with my men's group from church. I've told her on several occasions when making a decision, such as when she asked me to move out, that I spent significant time praying about it and sought guidance from my IC and other Christian men. So she knows I'm just reacting on my own emotion but seeking lots of guidance through this.

BTW, this is all part of a WW telling her H that she had started thinking about things differently, until he went and did this ______ (fill in the blank). "I was going to give you another chance, but not after you've done this!" As if to hold that over you. It is pure manipulation. The WW is extremely talented at manipulation. The H is trying so hard and when she tells him that, he thinks, "Oh crap, I've ruined my chances. What was I thinking? I'll have to prove to her how badly I want this to work". Manipulation! That is the name of her game.

She wanted space, so you are giving her space, right? But she wants it on her terms.

Yes! It is manipulation! I did give her space but it wasn't enough because it wasn't on her terms. I initially lived on other peoples couches for 3 weeks which she says doesn't count bc most of those nights I was on her XH couch. It does count. She needed space and I played nomad for several weeks. But it wasn't on her terms so to her it doesn't count. Then I moved to the basement for 4 weeks. Again, not on her terms so it doesn't count. Now I've reclaimed the MBR and all along I've told her I'm not moving out. She is the one having an A, she is the one leaving the M, She can move out.

I do help around the house but my W is a cleaning machine. How do I balance giving her space, being around enough to show I want to stay in the M, detaching, GAL-ing, showing tough love, not being a jerk for not helping with the cleaning? Or....do I make a statement like this "honoring your cleaning request, being around for dinner and family time, not going out or to the gym every night are things a H would do. When you start acting like my W I'll start treating you as my W." ?

I don't think it will help to tell her. The biggest thing is to stop trying to win her. Stop trying to make brownie points with housekeeping. Stop trying to convince her of anything or try to trade out with her. You can't make her be a good wife by telling her what you will do in return. (However, I know what are saying in the above. It's not that it's wrong, but it just won't work). None of this will matter to her, even if she slings it back in your face when she gets mad. You cannot please her! She will twist and turn everything. These are the most usual mistakes that newcomer LBH's make with a WW. What does work, is when you stop acting as if you care. Not like a cold jerk kind of way. I mean, if she was sick you'd care, but you know what I mean. Have a nonchalant attitude and move forward.

When she feels she is losing you......instead of you losing her, then that begins to change the dynamics in the R. So far, she hasn't felt worried she's losing you, has she?

Why would she say "I spent over an hour with my IC and by saying this I am not trying in any way to reconcile. I am not sleeping with anyone!!!! But honestly, I don't care what you think. If it makes you feel better about yourself, think whatever you want about me." ?
Is it bc her IC is telling her she should R? Is she being nice to me, not fighting to get back in the MBR and being so emphatic about not having an affair bc she believes I might be seeing someone and she's afraid to push me further away? She's afraid she's losing me?

Who knows! Just don't believe what she says.

5. I feel like I'm making progress with the detaching and setting boundaries. I feel I'm pushing her away but periodically reminding her that I do not want a divorce, I want and believe we can have a very healthy M. Should I stop reminding her that I do not want this divorce? Does making statements like that hurt my detaching efforts? Should I continue detaching at my current pace? Is it too intensive or not intensive enough?

I'm just against reminding a wayward that you don't want a divorce. She knows it. It can void so much of the work you do, to come behind it with another, "But I don't want a divorce". She does not have a bad memory! It assures her that you are very much attached. No, I don't think your detaching efforts are too intense, b/c you're still attached. See what I mean? As long as you are concerned about detaching too much, you aren't detaching enough. However, I think you are off to a good start.

Have you really read the detachment link?

[gs9]

dang it! I tried to edit but lost my editing time.

[gs9]

Sandi
Thank you so much. I'm having a really hard day. This last week she has actually been civil to me most of the time and I know if I'm getting the results I want then I should continue the actions getting those results. Detach, detach, detach.
Dang it!!!! I know better than to let my guard down.

Twice this weekend she told me she is not having an affair. She said she is not spending time with, sleeping with or even kissing anyone else. I think I believe her bc She has not been going out very often. Only once this last week. She didn't come home until 4:45 am but it wouldn't be unusually for her to go to her girlfriends, have some drinks, sleep a bit before coming home. I know she is still talking to OM and did spend the night with him at least once about 4 weeks ago. I'm inclined to believe there isn't a PA but I'm pretty sure there is still a EA.

Sure you want to believe her. All H's do. But this is a cheater's word, right? How do you know that she was at a GF's house till 4:45 am? Don't take the GF's word for it, or your WW's. Girl friends cover for one another.

I don't know and I didn't ask. And I've been thinking I hope she did spend time with OM so she can see he is not half the man I am. That's what happened with her first A.

Do you consider contacting OM and having an EA....is an affair?

I do consider it an affair. Any contact with OM is still unacceptable and to not be tolerated.

In a rant she said that kicking her out of the MBR has made her uncomfortable. That whenever the boys sleep over (they're my stepsons) S14 is sleeping on the floor and that whoever I'm getting advice from doesn't know her bc this has made her hate me and makes her believe I do not want to be M.

So much for you assuring her that you don't want a D.

Maybe I have a suspicious nature, but it wouldn't surprise me if she hasn't found your posts. She knows you are acting differently, so she suspects you are being instructed in what to do. It just sounds a bit too odd how she worded it, if those were her exact words. Be careful, it happens! Unless you've taken precaution to delete your computer history, she very likely has read what has been said. Either that, or it's a lucky guess.

She couldn't have found the posts. The only computer I've used to post from is at work until late last night I used the home computer. I made sure to clear the history.

She does know I see my IC weekly and I talk regularly with my men's group from church. I've told her on several occasions when making a decision, such as when she asked me to move out, that I spent significant time praying about it and sought guidance from my IC and other Christian men. So she knows I'm just reacting on my own emotion but seeking lots of guidance through this.

BTW, this is all part of a WW telling her H that she had started thinking about things differently, until he went and did this ______ (fill in the blank). "I was going to give you another chance, but not after you've done this!" As if to hold that over you. It is pure manipulation. The WW is extremely talented at manipulation. The H is trying so hard and when she tells him that, he thinks, "Oh crap, I've ruined my chances. What was I thinking? I'll have to prove to her how badly I want this to work". Manipulation! That is the name of her game.

She wanted space, so you are giving her space, right? But she wants it on her terms.

Yes! It is manipulation! I did give her space but it wasn't enough because it wasn't on her terms. I initially lived on other peoples couches for 3 weeks which she says doesn't count bc most of those nights I was on her XH couch. It does count. She needed space and I played nomad for several weeks. But it wasn't on her terms so to her it doesn't count. Then I moved to the basement for 4 weeks. Again, not on her terms so it doesn't count. Now I've reclaimed the MBR and all along I've told her I'm not moving out. She is the one having an A, she is the one leaving the M, She can move out.

I do help around the house but my W is a cleaning machine. How do I balance giving her space, being around enough to show I want to stay in the M, detaching, GAL-ing, showing tough love, not being a jerk for not helping with the cleaning? Or....do I make a statement like this "honoring your cleaning request, being around for dinner and family time, not going out or to the gym every night are things a H would do. When you start acting like my W I'll start treating you as my W." ?

I don't think it will help to tell her. The biggest thing is to stop trying to win her. Stop trying to make brownie points with housekeeping. Stop trying to convince her of anything or try to trade out with her. You can't make her be a good wife by telling her what you will do in return. (However, I know what are saying in the above. It's not that it's wrong, but it just won't work). None of this will matter to her, even if she slings it back in your face when she gets mad. You cannot please her! She will twist and turn everything. These are the most usual mistakes that newcomer LBH's make with a WW. What does work, is when you stop acting as if you care. Not like a cold jerk kind of way. I mean, if she was sick you'd care, but you know what I mean. Have a nonchalant attitude and move forward.

does it seem like I'm trying to win her back? I definitely don't want to leave that impression. I am trying to be a man only a fool would leave. I am trying to be nonchalant, not loving but not unloving.....not a door mat but not a jerk either.

When she feels she is losing you......instead of you losing her, then that begins to change the dynamics in the R. So far, she hasn't felt worried she's losing you, has she?

I believe I've been making progress with this over the last week. Tell me if I'm grasping at straws. Here are a couple things that are out of character for her. She hasn't fought me over reclaiming the MBR, she has been polite and respectful until last night, she made my bed a couple times, she went to see her IC for the first time in several weeks, she made a pt to tell me she's not trying to reconcile(we know she's a liar), she even apologized for cussing at me yesterday. She has cussed at me on a regular basis and has rarely apologized for it over our whole M. She has not apologized to me about anything significant for at least the last year. This was a definite Wow moment today. I was utterly shocked!

Why would she say "I spent over an hour with my IC and by saying this I am not trying in any way to reconcile. I am not sleeping with anyone!!!! But honestly, I don't care what you think. If it makes you feel better about yourself, think whatever you want about me." ?
Is it bc her IC is telling her she should R? Is she being nice to me, not fighting to get back in the MBR and being so emphatic about not having an affair bc she believes I might be seeing someone and she's afraid to push me further away? She's afraid she's losing me?

Who knows! Just don't believe what she says.

Got It! I need to be reminded about every 10 minutes that she is a cheater and a liar!

5. I feel like I'm making progress with the detaching and setting boundaries. I feel I'm pushing her away but periodically reminding her that I do not want a divorce, I want and believe we can have a very healthy M. Should I stop reminding her that I do not want this divorce? Does making statements like that hurt my detaching efforts? Should I continue detaching at my current pace? Is it too intensive or not intensive enough?

I'm just against reminding a wayward that you don't want a divorce. She knows it. It can void so much of the work you do, to come behind it with another, "But I don't want a divorce". She does not have a bad memory! It assures her that you are very much attached. No, I don't think your detaching efforts are too intense, b/c you're still attached. See what I mean? As long as you are concerned about detaching too much, you aren't detaching enough. However, I think you are off to a good start.

Have you really read the detachment link?

I will do my best to not remind her that I don't want a divorce directly and verbally. I will do my best to not answer this question or assumption from her directly. How should this be addressed?
Probably with just a look but nothing concrete.


I am afraid some day she will say "you wanted this divorce too, you didn't assure me that you didn't want it" but she knows the truth. I've told her dozens of times. I'm also afraid she will think I've moved on and it's too late to save our M. That she can't win me back. Ugh....I feel I'm walking a tightrope but I know I must "let her go" and continue praying for her. Only God can move her heart and I am hopeful that pulling away will draw her to me.