I found this on another thread posted by SANDI2 she has such knowledge
I'm sure it must be very difficult for you, but please understand that a WAW is a different creature from the girl you M. The girl you M was in love with you. Your WAW no longer feels in love with you. Your bride wanted you to fill her up emotionally. The woman you have now feels emotionally dead to you. You used to be all she thought about and she wanted to please you. Somewhere, that faded away. She wanted you to compliment her when you thought she looked great. Now, it kind of irks her to hear it from you. She admired and respected you as a man, But she has neither for you now. She wanted to be with you sexually. But now she no longer desires you.
Even when PT is not the primary LL, people in love still want to be touched by their S. People who have a high drive may still have sex with their S, but the in-love feelings aren't there. People on the board have different opinions about having sex with a WAS. If there was always a healthy sex life in the M......who knows? But if she wasn't the one who usually initiated, IMHO I would have to say she isn't interested. "Most" WAW's feel completely "done" with the M. Once done.....she feels that's it. Can't go any further with it, and won't try.
She doesn't get to that point overnight. The WAW feels very unhappy, neglected, and lonely for a long time. The H may say it's not true, but it's her feelings and it's how she remembers it (right or wrong). She feels "empty" and then she begins to feel "dead" inside.
When she feels dead, she's in an extremely vulnerable position. B/c the first male who says just the right words to make her feels special, makes her feel pretty, or young & sexy.....she is in danger of stepping into an emotional realm that will thrive on her emotions. The more ego food she gets, the stronger the emotional fantasy.....and pretty soon, you've got a monster who has replaced the girl you M.
Yes, she will start looking really good! She'll work out, dress in younger looking clothes, change her hair, wear more make-up, and some start hitting the party life. (That's why I personally think she has another man's attention....or is looking.) I mean, you have to ask yourself why is she suddenly doing this (especially when she's so obviously disinterested in her H). And if there isn't a "why", then you have to ask yourself who. It is usually a who that sets off the ego spark in a woman (who has felt dead for a long time). Once she feels that little spark, she sees there's life after death, and she's not about to give it up.
Now, your nature will want to do all those things you should have done a long time ago. But you see, she doesn't want you to do it now. In fact, if you try to do it now, it will backfire and make her pull away quicker than ever. That brings me back to the touching. Some DB coaches have advised certain folks to do a little touch to see the response. Depending on that particular stitch. But it sure doesn't happen in all cases! B/c the WAW is no longer attracted to her H, and she no longer desires his attention, compliments, or touches. In fact, she goes to the extreme the other direction from her old self. It seems anything he does simply turns her off, and that's why anything that resembles romantic intentions will get you bad results. And each time a LBH tries that route, she has to show him that she's serious about ending the M, b/c she thinks you aren't accepting it.
Get as much information as you can about the WAW, otherwise you will be completely defenseless.
Btw, I was once a WAW. This board saved my M. The DBing program is really designed for the S who wants to save the M. I was an exception b/c I really didn't have the desire to save it when I first came here, but I knew I was in trouble and needed guidance.
So, there is hope for you. Don't give up. You will have to learn to think differently about your R with your W, if you want go save this M. So, listen carefully to the advice given on the board. Also, don't try to pick and choose from various programs b/c it will be very confusing.
When a H finds himself in this stitch, he wants to be proactive in getting the M back on track. Most of what you will hear from the board will sound as if we are discouraging the LBS from doing that completely. But the truth is that you have to take a different plan from what your natural self tells you to do.
I suggest you start here with this plan of "action". First, do a lot of soul searching and evaluating yourself in the mirror. Take note of how you have changed since she M you. It will be tempting to argue how much she has changed also, but you must not look at her. After your self evaluation, list the ways you could change to improve. Granted, we can't be exactly like we once were in youth, beauty, etc., but we can do a lot to get that person back again. If that guy showed up tonight, would she recognize him? I bet she would. I know that would be a tall order for many people who've been M for a while, so you may need to set some personal goals to help your improvement.
Perhaps this is not what you want to hear, and I'm sure it wasn't what you expected when you first came here. However, to be very blunt....she isn't in love with who you are now. She may fall back in love with the man you once were, or if you become even better....but that's the only hope you have in saving your M.
There is one factor you must bear in mind at all times about your WAW. She does not respect you. If she did, she wouldn't want to leave you. She cannot feel in love with you if she doesn't respect you as a man. We women are just wired that way!
The second factor to remember as you go through this journey....do not have ANY expectations! You will, and may not realize it, until somebody points it out. That happens when the LBS is getting too obsessed or out of balance in his quest to bust the D. I guess that sounds pretty crazy, but you'll see what I mean as you go along. Just try not to have expectations of her. B/c you can't control her (which you'll hear often on here), and b/c she won't respond to you like she once did. Therefore, if you say anything or do anything in order to receive certain expectations....you will more than likely be disappointed. I tell LBH's they set themselves up for disappointment by having any degree of expectations of the WAW. You are the only one that can handle it.
One thing that might help is to not look for the old wife to show up. Don't do or say things thinking you'll snap her out of her fog, b/c you won't. I know you're going to, everyone does, but eventually you see it doesn't work. The more you try, the more pain you will have b/c it's another form of expectations.
The "plan" is to be "cool". No pressure on her whatsoever. Which is very difficult to H's b/c almost everything from him is pressure to her. Therefore, you make the decision that you're going to be happy in life with or without her. Then you proceed. Yes, it's hard. But again, it's the only way.
Being cool is not being mad. It's not pouting or feeling sorry for yourself. That's why a lot of H's have problems understanding giving the W space. They confuse it with being angry, in a bad mood, etc. But you're the guy who is too cool to act that way. Remember how cool acting you had to be back in the days of dating (or wanting to date... a particular girl? Cool guys don't smother, persist, chase, beg, whine, and act pitiful. Remember what the other lady said about how she could find her H repulsive? You don't want to give your W reason to agree with that statement!
A cool guy is oozing with confidence! Gosh, that's attractive to a woman! Does your self confidence need some update? Maybe your appearance needs a little update as well, IDK, but it doesn't hurt to check.
Notice how a cool guy has a certain charm? Almost like he's having fun with everything he does and with everyone he's around. People like being around that type of person. He's fun and causes them to feel good being around him. He makes it seem so easy, doesn't he.....as if he didn't have a worry in the world. As hard as it may seem, you really need to practice being as much that way as possible during these dark days. Now, I'll warn you, she may think you are not taking her seriously, and try to reinforce what she's already said, but in the long run of things, it's still the better route to take than the alternative.
A few more tips in your daily family stuff is to keep things as "light" as possible when you are with the W and son. Avoid any bait that will trap you into a R talk or fight....with either one of them. Not knowing their personalities, if you can play and have a good time, then great, and if not then have it by yourself. Listen to happy or inspirational music,but none of those downers that will having you crying in your soup. When watching movies, don't watch stuff that's sad or about romance b/c that's just asking for awkwardness and probably more pain for you. When having the opportunity for family outings, make the most & enjoy them. Heck, maybe you can even create some good times. However, since there are no small children (which are often a good excuse for some events), it may be more difficult not to appear as pushing.
When with friends and relatives, if you start getting hung up on what others may know or what they may be thinking....you won't enjoy anything when around them. Which leads me to something else. Don't share this with any of them. Don't pull them in on the stitch.
I'm not a fan of FB b/c it has been a tool in hurting a lot of M's. I know it's the people that uses it, right? Still, I would encourage you to try to stay off your W's FB b/c it will be like a knife cutting you every time you check it out. People sound like they are back in junior high school when talking about their S's FB.
Don't start trying to do all the household chores, cook all the meals, etc., thinking it helps your cause. It doesn't. It will just make her mad b/c she'll see right through it. And please don't be one of these men who declare they are doing it "because they want to", or doing it for themselves. A lot of men tackle projects their W's have tried to get them to do for years (like painting the garage, or something), but just bear in mind that it doesn't get you any brownie points with her. That's another one of those "why now" she'll ask herself.
Many men suddenly find that they don't want to GAL b/c they just want to be around the WAW. They pass it off as just being homebodies or loving to be with the kids, when they didn't have any problems working and being gone before. Gee, I'm coming across as sounding terrible, but I'm really trying to get you to see something......(and btw, this is not an intended put-down to any particular man)..........that if I can see through it with a person I don't even know, then the woman that is M to you will certainly tell when you are trying to make points with her. In the past it could have worked, but not now.
Getting a social life has been reported as being one of the best of the best things a LBS can do to really make a difference. You won't believe it, so you better prove it, okay? Kind of funny the affect it seems to have on the WAS, too.
I'm not going to add anymore "don'ts" right now b/c it must sound terribly discouraging to you. Again, it's not all these things you "do" to win her back. It is about who you become. You work on being the best man you can possibly be....and makes you happy. Then once you're happy with that guy, she may decide she wants to be with him too. Who knows, you may even decide to let her.
So time for ghost to start really knuckling down
Last edited by Cadet; 10/10/1503:14 PM.
Me:48 W 41 M:18 T:26 2 D 18 & 4 2 S 17 & 13 Bomb: 20/7/2015 in house separation D filed 06/17 Separate houses 10/17 D Final 29/12//17.
I suggest every LBS reads this multiple times. Sadly, a lot of us will spend endless amounts of time and energy trying to get to this point, when we should just read sand2's posts!
Now, Ghost, YOU'VE got to put this in place!
M 45 W 52 SD22 S9 D8 BD 6 April 2015 Not living together 4 Dec 2015
Thanks Ghost for reposting that... I didn't catch Sandi's post before.
Sandi is so right on it's not even funny. Her description of a WW fits mine to a T, new clothes, new bras, new underwear, more gym, more make up etc etc etc.... it makes my blood boil recalling her going out to where ever in that mini skirt.... that is not the girl I married or that I grew up with.
But, I literally cannot do anything about it. I believe in Sandi's remarks about confidence. It is so important and must be built up. For me, I can do this by hitting the gym hard, becoming more social and a new wardrobe, all things I did before I was married just like Sandi mentions. These little things have helped me a ton. I see the change in my interactions with others. WW has no idea (I think), but it makes me feel good.
I agree that you should reread that post often. You do seem to be doing better the past couple of days. Let's keep it up!
Ok so ghost is really going to try to detach and not pursue the w
Nw as you may know I am in an in house separation things seems to be fairly calm and static but I have defiantly been moved to friend rather than husband
So my question is i detach GAL pull away from my W in the hope it draws her in ....right ? ....wrong
My M is over she says she is not in love with me I guess ilubnilwu she sees me as a friend so if I cannot pursue ....then all I can do is detach nothing i can do I cannot friend her back.
Sandi2 I am not sure is my w is waw or ww She still insists that she is not looking for anyone else and is just going out to have fun for herself but she is txting and going out clubbing so ...Idk
It probably makes no difference anyway
I can see us getting further and further apart emotionally
Me:48 W 41 M:18 T:26 2 D 18 & 4 2 S 17 & 13 Bomb: 20/7/2015 in house separation D filed 06/17 Separate houses 10/17 D Final 29/12//17.
Sandi2 I am not sure is my w is waw or ww She still insists that she is not looking for anyone else and is just going out to have fun for herself but she is txting and going out clubbing so ...Idk
I think we have been over this before. Previously, I grouped the WW and the WAW together. I started the Help for the Newcomer LHB who has a WW by stating the reason I would be separating the two. Over the years, I continued to see confusion in newcomers over the different advice from the board members. After I saw women who had left the M, due to abuse or other more justified (or even understandable) reasons, refer to themselves as a WAW.......I decided to write that thread.
If a person has never had experience being wayward, or having a wayward spouse, then I can understand why they would see applying the softer approach. Waywardness is in the heart/mind/attitude. An affair is overt behavior of what is in her heart. A woman does not have to be in an affair in order to be defined as wayward! However, if she is in an A, then she certainly is wayward, IMO. It just seems that is usually the case we see here. The same with MLC. A person can experience MLC without an A, but we usually see it hand in hand here. Can you understand what I am trying to explain?
Read what I copied and pasted from a dictionary:
Quote:
contrary, perverse, restive, balky, wayward mean inclined to resist authority or control. contrary implies a temperamental unwillingness to accept orders or advice <a contrary child>. perverse may imply wrongheaded, determined, or cranky opposition to what is reasonable or normal <a perverse, intractable critic>. restive suggests unwillingness or inability to submit to discipline or follow orders <tired soldiers growing restive>. balky suggests a refusing to proceed in a desired direction or course of action <a balky witness>. wayward suggests strong-willed capriciousness and irregularity in behavior <a school for wayward youths>.
It never mentions spouse, marriage relationship, or affair. So, do you see any of the above describing your W?
Let me ask you something, Ghost. What would you do differently, if I told you she didn't have a wayward blood cell in her heart?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi2 I am not sure there is very much I can do definitely want I will do definitely I can see from the last three months of being nice it has not drawn her closer to me I am not sure that she is any further away either
So much of my problems comes from my thinking and I know that my thoughts create my feelings that create my experience The trouble is it is also very difficult to control your thinking but then thoughts come and go as you can I have two thoughts at the same time
I feel that I'm now on the pathway where after Christmas my wife will tell me that she wishes to sell the house and although this is something that I have been very much against I now realise that it may take this for her to realise the loss
I am 46 my whole life has been and has resolved around the children and my wife I had a simple life work and spend time with the family .....my GAL plans will put me right outside my comfort zone as I have not had to look to build new friends as I have no need
I do feel that I am starting to detach myself albeit at a very slow rate and I can probably make things easier for myself however as it has been said I am perhaps quite stubborn
The post from you Sandi2 that I took from one of your replies on another thread I will read it will hopefully help me in the direction I need to be going
Thank you
Huggs
Ghost
Me:48 W 41 M:18 T:26 2 D 18 & 4 2 S 17 & 13 Bomb: 20/7/2015 in house separation D filed 06/17 Separate houses 10/17 D Final 29/12//17.
It'll come mate. Time is your friend. Sandi2 is a star here and you are very lucky to have her advise you.
Peace
Me:43 Her:42 M:14 S:9 EA started 2014/03 (or there abouts) PA started 2014/05/30 BD:2014/11/05 I left 2015/10/01 I returned 2015/05/02 She left 2015/06/10 OM still on the go.
