Yup, it stands for Rising Above It - III

[RAI]

Fogg,

Thanks for checking in and for your offering your perspective. I appreciate it. How have you been lately? I will swing by your thread.

while your comments have truth to them it also contains alot of your anger.

True, true. There is still a lot of anger. It is hard not to be angry when she/OM is still harassing me (he cruised past me last night again as I was out running and I received two more anonymous texts) and I am still under the same roof. I am venting. Why can't I save my magnanimity for when we are no longer living together.

She achnowledged she's caused you great pain and I doubt many WW could even say that.

Correction, she is causing - present tense - continuing to cause. If someone is stepping on your foot, their apology means little until they actually get off your foot.

You asked what would be the point and I think the point would be to begin to forgive, which only requires giving up your right to punish someone. I think deep down you still want to punish her and not achnowledging she attempted to appologize at all (even if you see it as a bad or fake apology) would be trying to punish.

You are spot on. But there are degrees. Not acknowledging the email is milder than writing a scathing reply (akin to what I wrote in my post). Again, I did reply last year and I don't feel like it helped me begin to forgive. Isn't there some value in biting my tongue if that is all I can muster at this stage?

You don't know for sure how difficult it was for her to write that letter, so don't completely discount it.

I don't know how difficult it was. I don't know if she even actually wrote it.

I think I will get much more mileage from being more polite on a day-to-day basis.

RAI

[SunnyB]

RAI, for what it's worth, my STBX has said that he's sorry I'm hurt, but has never acknowledged that he chose to do the hurting. To me, it's like saying that you are sorry my leg is broken without acknowledging you were the one who ran me down with an 18-wheeler. But I have chosen to believe that's the best apology he can offer right now, and I think that deserves an olive branch for the sake of my children.

You are correct that saying nothing at all is better than a scathing reply. Better for her, and far better for your kids, but not necessarily for you. Because all that anger and bitterness and resentment is still inside you, and that's what we are trying to get you to let go of.

[Sotto]

Hello Rai, I agree with Sunny that it is probably best to respond in a way that is in the interests of your family going forwards. I agree that it must have taken quite a bit for your W to write that message and rather than looking for the kind of apology you would like, accept the apology you have. Part of this is that perhaps you want to 'show' your W how inadequate her apology is in relation to all that has happened. I understand that if so.

You may be interested to have a look at Cali's thread in the MLC area of the forum. A few months ago, there was a long debate on the nature of forgiveness and how to work towards it. Very interesting and I have been meaning to go back to it. Whatever the ultimate outcome, we need to find a way to forgive. Some of us will heal and forgive together and some will heal and forgive alone. Both are fine. And some people will remain stuck in anger for perhaps many years. That's not what any of us want for ourselves I'm sure.

I hope this helps a little and best wishes to you xx

[Ancaire]

Ya...H tested me a "sort of" apology..."I don't mean to hurt you." I chose not to reply. His actions invalidate that apology. I had so many scathing replies to offer, it seemed best to not reply.

I know my lack of response irritated him, but really. An apology would be nicer if he actually "got off my foot." (Love that one!)

In the meantime, I'm taking away my penchant for caring. He can go on his merry way...I'll just keep working on me. I know I'll have better results.

[Vanilla]

V,

I like your ideas. I will try to do one night a week. I think Wednesdays would usually work for this. This also used to be date night . I don't see why I cannot be home by 5:30 on these days. I remember "murder in the dark" from my youth, but forgot completely how to play. I looked it up on the internet. There are many variations, but I don't think my younger children will get it. What is your version? How does one incorporate prizes? What is a tickle night? in my house, every night is tickle night . V, you are awesome.

I am still civil. It is still hard.
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Apologise for not posting, I downloaded the new upgrade for my iPad, every time I quoted, it locked and kicked me from the site. grrrrrr

So murder in the dark the very best of it. A very dark room, 'it' is blindfolded, everyone hides, each person has an object of their choice. Once 'it' catches a person, they have to find the object and guess what it is. You can also do this with food and tastes.

Tickle night is about penalties and prizes. Usually about tickling feet, or arms with a secret object, feather, piece of soap, loofah, fork, boiled egg. The tickled person has to guess what it is. tHen there is a prize, such as picking the pizza flavour, choosing the night time reading book.

RAI, I am sooooooo proud of you. I really truly am.

V

[Vanilla]

If it were me then I would simply validate WW

"Thank you for your thoughts, I appreciate you expressing them. "

I am a lone voice and I do not believe in forgiveness until there is a request for it. Let go resentment yes, forgive not always. Let go of revenge. My views are on gr8 thread.

It isn't my job to forgive, it is the role of the persons higher power. I must never get in the way. Just let WHs higher power deal it. It is between him, his higher power and his 12 step process.

V

[RAI]

Sunny, Sotto, Judy, and V,

Thanks for your thoughtful opinions - delivered so non-judgmentally, I would add. You guys are awesome big sisters to me. I am learning so much in my journey. I have visited Cali's thread and reviewed the lengthy discussion on forgiveness. I have also scoured the resources that the web has to offer. I learned that there are 3 types of forgiveness (per Dr. Steven Marmer at UCLA):
1) Exoneration: this is the one we commonly associate with forgiveness. It is reserved for cases where the offender shows true remorse and accepts full blame. It restores a relationship to it's former status. Clearly not the case here.
2) Forebearance: When the apology is incomplete and still blames the offended party. It would almost seem to apply here, except, my W is continuing her actions.
3) Release: This is the one I am truly pursuing. It is reserved for when the offender makes to effort to apologize. I would add that it may be beneficial in cases where there is no sincere effort or when the offense is on-going. To quote Dr. Marmer:

Release does not exonerate the offender. Nor does it require forbearance. It doesn’t even demand that one continue the relationship. It does ask: instead of continuing to define your life in terms of the hurt done. You release your bad feelings and the preoccupation with the negative things that happened to you. It allows you to let go of the burden – the silent tax that is wearing you down and eating away at your chance for happiness. If you don’t release the pain and anger and move past dwelling on old hurts you allow the ones who hurt you to live rent free in your mind, reliving the persecution. It liberates you from the tyranny of living in the traumatic past.

Release is for my benefit. It means letting go of the anger. I think it is what many of you are getting at. I am just not there yet. I saw how it took job (the DBer, not the biblical character) three years to get over her anger. I also noticed how everyone does it in their own time. Vs reply resonated with me the most. Validate, without commenting or speculating on her motives/intentions or being overly sympathetic. That said, I am still leaning towards not replying. I thought long and hard about it. I even had a good cry. I am still, admittedly, on the fence about it.

Regardless, I hope I took a baby step today, and I will continue to make a sincere effort to be civil with my W.

Thanks again and have a great weekend,

RAI

[Vanilla]

I like Jeanne Safer Forgiving and not forgiving.

V

[SunnyB]

Release is for my benefit. It means letting go of the anger. I think it is what many of you are getting at. I am just not there yet.

RAI, I don't think I ever used the word "forgiveness". Yes, I'm talking about letting go of anger, hurt, fear, resentment, bitterness, grudge-holding. Because who do you want to be? You get to choose.

[SunnyB]

You guys are awesome big sisters to me.

BTW, RAI, this was a sweet compliment. Thank you.

I've been struggling for a couple of weeks with the disparity between the guys I'm attracted to and my own age. I almost posted on my thread about it last week. Maybe I will tomorrow.