as_it_is - my adventure continues (part 4)

[asitis]

I agree, but I really don't think I'm sending that signal to her. Last night, for instance, I went out to meet my friend & her kids in part because W was out there & didn't know them. Didn't want any awkwardness between them. Once out, friend's D initiated the play. Nothing intentional. Besides, I felt a bit awkward like I had a closer R with my friend that her D was happy to see me even though I've only met her D once at a play date.

Same w/ the new FB friends. It is just that the thought pops into my head jeez, wonder what W is thinking about this my interacting so much w/ my young female friends. Focus is pulled away from my life by realizing W is watching me, not that I'm doing things to draw attention. If I wanted to do that, I'd be initiating friend requests to more of my classmates & others in my programs (I'm the old guy in the program, so I've erred on waiting for the young W to initiate on FB so to avoid the creepy old guy feelings). If anything, the humor is a response for my being a bit uncomfortable that I'm building a life apart from her, but she is still always there in the background observing.

But good reminder Beagley.

[asitis]

So, turns out W left something else out that she probably didn't intend. An old vibrator that I bought her as a gift years ago (no longer vibrates). It was tucked into the fitted sheet next to where we both sleep on the bed at the house.

Mixed feelings triggered by that. A bit of jealousy that she might be fantasizing that it is someone else. A bit of hope that it might be me that she is fantasizing about. Not sure whether she fantasizes or just takes care of the urge. Wondering if there were some way to plant the seed that I would not read any meaning about our R into her coming over for the real if she wants to scratch that itch. Then, no, I just leave it where it is & say nothing (just like the divorce book), as it is more likely to trigger defenses when some opening to talking about things of interest is going on.

I doubt she is thinking about pursuing a new R, as she is actually gaining weight to the point where it is showing. She normally would respond to that by exercising and cutting back a bit on deserts. If there were a new interest, she'd definitely be worried about doing things to attract. Doesn't mean she doesn't have interests that she is fantasizing about. But I don't want her to feel like I'm getting in the way of that by her even realizing I know that she is taking care of her needs. Not my business, and I respect that we are not a couple and I have no claims on her body even if we were.

Really would like to have some coffee though. It doesn't help that I'm surrounded by attractive young women in leggings and skirts five days a week. Don't want them though (still prefer W despite everything). Just adds to the reminders that I have unmet needs in that area.

[gonegrl]

I think she left it there for you to find. I mean, she knows you sleep in that bed. Maybe she is telling you that she misses sex, or maybe she is telling you that she can take care of herself. It could go either way.

The sex thing has been hard for me too. I still get some when I really can't stand it anymore, my H is still in the bed and doesn't seem to mind if I just, ummm, help myself, but he doesn't initiate and the emotional connection isn't there so its not the same. I suspect you'd find the same with your W if you had the opportunity.

Definitely be careful with the young women, you can complicate your life so quickly.

[sandi2]

If I had chosen that particular item to give my H a clue, I think I would have left it on his pillow.

You men are so easy!

[gonegrl]

Sandi, not all men are that easy! My H literally believes that I "forget" to wear clothes to bed on occasion. Men can be really clueless. But women I think know exactly what we are doing.

[asitis]

This one is not clueless. With my W even the slightest unintentional flash of something would draw my like a fly to honey. I definitely was too easy - it really would have been better if she had to work a little bit. I can recognize other women as being attractive, and even prettier than my W in some abstract sense or what society would judge, but it is my W that I am drawn to, and likely always will be. She thinks it is just because I want something sex. Even when I've tried to be very clear about why it is not that, she doesn't really believe -- yes, she has issues with believing she is lovable & that is a big part of our problems. Very sad.

No, I don't think this was intentional. Just that I don't factor into her thinking right now, or that she just plain forgot. Either way, not mentioning it will not be the reaction she expects either.

I cannot tease her, and she is sensitive about sexuality even though she likes sex, and she liked sex with me a lot. I was the initiator mostly, as it was part of my primary love language. She really has to be the one to initiate things because of that dynamic. She has to feel in total control right now if she is going to take any risks.

And, trust me on the young women. There is only one I am actually attracted to as a person, and I could theoretically be her grandfather. There is such a huge experience gap that I know I would lose interest very, very fast. I couldn't do that to someone I liked.

I've also had decades of experience being around attractive young women with daddy issues as my students. I've never gotten close to that boundary. My boundary issue is that I tend to get fatherly. It is more seeing all the fit young women wearing tight leggings that are the trend at least wear I am. I am a butt & leg man (esp. the former), and that just isn't very nice of them - not that they are thinking of attracting the attention of someone like me when they chose what to wear.

No, where I'm going to possibly get in trouble is if they have attractive available aunts who know how to seduce. That will take will power. Good thing I've built that up through my meditation practice, as I really don't want any complications while we negotiate a D and sort through the rubble of our R for what we want to save and perhaps build on.

[asitis]

Oh, and on whether she is sending a message. I just can't imagine forgetting something like that. And if she were trying to send a message, I doubt she would have left the divorce book there as well. And, I haven't been doing any flirting or sending any other messages of pursuit or interest in sex her way. I just think she forgot to gather up all her things after an afternoon of being with the boys, getting dinner for them, and packing up her stuff. Still, I would think someone who has expressed discomfort talking about masturbation would be very careful about leaving such things around.

Who knows? I don't understand all that she is going through, or why she behaves the way she does sometimes. I know that she is struggling with her decision just like I am. She claims that she has no doubts, but it still is very painful.

I'll entertain critiques of the no response decision, but it seems right to me. Still, it is a very powerful reminder of something I miss badly.

[PigPen]

Ah the beauty of DB'ing...you get to read between all lines. Even the ones that are left behind and don't vibrate any more.

I wouldn't read too much into it As, as much I hope it's a good sign for you.

I'm sure she has doubts, I'd bet a thousand dollars on it. And underneath those doubts is the need to live day to day with all of our desires and fumbley human needs. You're a rockstar my friend. Navigating all that you do with classes, students, and kids must be a huge load to carry.

Keep putting one foot in front of the other.

PP

[asitis]

Ran into W in the halls. Told me she ran over to the house to get a running bra (likely true), and wanted to let me know that she was there as sh put something in the fridge. Lay money she realized her faux pas, and went back to correct the oversight.

Anyway. I'll get back to post something interesting I've been looking into that my M&FT friend mentioned.

[asitis]

So, I mentioned in an earlier post that I had coffee w/ a classmate. She is one of the more interesting colleagues in the program, as she has a MA in Marriage & Family Therapy, and has several years of clinical experience w/ couples.

When we turned to discussions of my M (which I'm happy was not the focus of our talk - mostly on the program, being back in school, what we thought of some of the other people, shop talk about approaches, etc.). She said it sounds like W had Negative Sentiment Overload. I hadn't heard of it before, but it is one of John Gottman's studied concepts. Gottman is one of the most well regarded researchers on M, btw.

The idea is that Ss are either in positive sentiment overload (rose-colored glasses) or negative sentiment overload (sh*t-colored glasses) when they filter what their S does or says. When in positive sentiment overload, they interpret minor negative acts or statements as no big deal or even see it as neutral. Like, "OK, S is in a bad mood" but with the idea that this is not really a problem and the good S will shortly be back.

When in negative sentiment overload, every action or statement is perceived as bad and a threat by an opponent. Even things perceived by neutral observers as good, loving gestures, are perceived as attacks by the S in this mode. No matter what you do, your actions will be viewed as disingenuous attempts at manipulation.

Some of the later research indicates that this applies for neutral to mildly negative when S is in positive, but that seriously negative still get interpreted as negative. On the other side, even strongly positive get viewed as neutral or negative by the S in the negative mode. Not surprising as we are wired to be especially on guard against threats (a negativity bias).

It helps explain some of the frustration and disconnect we LBSs feel when our well-meaning actions and words trigger a hostile reaction. I know this happened a number of times w/ my W. I was just dumbstruck at the time on one.

So, a good MC would work to get the S in the negative mode to start working to look at the positives in the other S and the M. Now, what if you aren't in MC? There is good news and bad news.

First the good news: the switch can tack place remarkably fast. Literally an aha moment. The S takes off the sh*t-colored glasses (they say grey glasses in the literature, btw) & puts on the rose-colored glasses. In an R, you wear one or the other, the research indicates.

How do you get S who is not cooperating by investing themselves in MC? It is done through friendship. Really, getting to the point where the S relaxes enough to open up to being casual friends. That is what we are all working toward according to my DB coach (& I know she knows this literature, we just don't go into the theory and research in our limited time on the phone).

So, it takes a while, as you need to let things settle down. And, remain open and friendly, but do everything you can not to pursue or do anything nice for S. Anything nice will just slow this down, as it will strengthen the negative mode while they are in it. Really, back off. Leave openings for connection, have short pleasant chats, have no expectations or set any obligations on S. Then keep that up.

Once the friendship openings start being taken up by S, you need to restrain yourself and stick to plan. It is like having a fragile bird in your hand. A sudden move will spook them and they'll fly away. You need to let the friendship aspect develop gradually. Once that happens, a change could be very sudden. You should be prepared for that if it happens, and have some idea how you want to respond when it happens.

So, the bad news. I don't see any other methods mentioned for getting to that point in the literature. If I do, I'll pass that along. But if S does not get to that relaxed F stage, and won't invest him or her self into MC with someone who is aware of this dynamic, the chances are slim to have this critical switch take place.

I haven't seen anything on defensive reactions which make the S jump back in fear once they get this switch, but the suggestion is that this is temporary, as the perceptions have changed. Patience but small reinforcing gestures are probably OK.

Anyway, it helps me to know the theory & research behind the advice I've been given. This helps underline the importance of backing off and just letting things calm down between you and your S, while keeping it clear through body language & friendly interactions that you are open to the friendship. Don't tell S this, it has to be just the planting seeds and tending them. If an IC tells S, then it will likely be fine (as it is coming from someone with whom S does not have a negative sentiment bias). But it can't come from you.

I hope that helps some of you as much as it helped me to learn it.

Cheers!