Flailing

[Lost08]

Lost - I read your last post this morning and have been thinking about you all day. I hope you're ok, please post and let us know.

And you are not alone.

x

X

TY, Stacey. I'm still here

[Azzork]

Despite the millions of tiny knives thru my heart, I am still breathing. Still opening my eyes in the morning. Still getting dressed and trying to act as if my skin has not been turned inside out.

Hey....Thats pretty damn good for someone with a million knives in your heart. Slowly, we'll get those knives out and the pain will start to ease. But for now, its just important to know that you are still HERE. You can SURVIVE this. Lets lock that down before worrying about going forward.

I am hesitant to post for so many reasons, not the least of which is I don't want to expose others to my despair when, really, everyone in this forum is looking for support and encouragement, hope for happiness and to know they will get thru this and be ok. What good would it do for someone to read of this dark, painful place in which I find myself stuck?

Dont worry about us. I find the best way to help me deal with the pain is to try to help anyone else deal with theirs. Somehow, it helps lessen my suffering when I see triumphs of others, even minor ones like waking up.

And, yet, selfishly, here I am. Again. Posting. And crying. And writing, asking for your support.

Its NOT selfish to ask for help. Its selfish to suffer WITHOUT asking for help. What kind of friend, mother, person can you be if you are suffering when there is help available?

I think part of it was the way H told me of the extension for this trip. He alluded to it when I got home from work that day. I asked him how his day was. He made an unpleasant face and said "Work was work." Very vague comment from him seeing how he usually has some stories he likes to share. NOT sharpening my DB skills, I asked him what he meant to which he replied "Not good. It's not good but we're not going to talk about it now. It's a conversation for another time."

And he left me hanging. All thru dinner and a 4 hour baseball game with the kids.

Now, for me, this was an exact replay of how H dropped the A bomb. He had returned from out of country, acted very cold and aloof and almost as if he was angry with me for 3 days. Denied being angry. But made vague comments like "I can't talk to you about this now." "I'm going to bed. I'll tell you tomorrow." etc. For 3 days. THEN he told me he was in love with someone else.

So, I crashed. Hard. Unable to get my footing. Unable to get my panic/anxiety under control while waiting for the newest bomb. Clearly not detached.

And it just knocked me overboard.

And while flailing in the water, I must have been trying to drown myself because then I spoke to H about our R. Talk about sabotage. What happened to detach, act friendly, avoid all R talk? Forget backsliding. I completely fell off the side of the cliff and let him see my hurt, see me crying. NOT begging or pleading or pledging my love. NOT asking to save our marriage. BUT hurt and confused and admitting I have images of him and OW in my head that I'm trying to ignore like her picking him up at the airport and blah blah blah.

H admitted to being happy to return to other country. Said there's a tension and awkwardness between us now. REALLY???

I acknowledged and agreed that there is an awkwardness. It is awkward to pass each other in the hall and turn so as not to accidentally brush against one another. It's awkward to sleep in the same bed with him naked and blocked in by pillow and blankets. It is awkward not to kiss hello or good-bye or hold hands or touch one another's arm. Things that used to be so natural. I told him I don't know how to make that go away. I told him I heard him clearly when he said he doesn't want me anymore since everything happened (- meaning his A; pretty much his exact words)and I was trying to respect his boundaries.

H was a little emotional. Tears. Saying he didn't mean to leave the trip hanging over my head. He said "This really [censored]. I've been enjoying the last couple of days and selfishly I didn't want to wreck it even though I know it's all going to be wrecked."

This is why detaching is important, as hard as you know that it is. What have you really learned through all of this dialogue that you didnt know before? Nothing, really.

All that happened was that you helped him understand your level of attachment. No matter what hes done or is doing or will do, you are right there waiting to be the fall back. Thats why theres no point, no benefit, nothing you can gain from talking about your relationship.

H said he thinks things have been really nice lately. He said he's been enjoying the early dinners and the cleaner house and he knows I've been doing most of it. He said he's been enjoying having me up so early in the morning. That's never happened in our R. I've always been the night person, H the morning person. Now I barely sleep and I'm always up by 4:30/5am.

I told him how confusing it is to hear him constantly refer to our future in the new apartment and say "we" and "us" all the time while he's having a R and a building a brand new life in another country.

At first he said he does it around the kids. Then he said "I do say "we" a lot. And left it at that.

I apologized for any talk of our R. Admitted I was just overwhelmed with it all. I told him I don't want things to be even more tense or awkward and hoped I hadn't done that. H said not to apologize. That I have nothing to be sorry for. That he deserves anything I have to say. He asked for a hug, which I gave.

Friday night and Saturday I tried to go back to the drawing board and put on my friendly roommate mask. For the most part, I'm keeping it up. Trying to joke now and then with H. He's not sure what to make of my ribbing him.

The mask slips at times and the constant feeling that I need to vomit doesn't help.

We move our things tomorrow. Not sure what H will bring seeing as he'll only be there for 2 weeks but I think the kids are excited. They really don't know what's going on yet.

Sounds like he is noticing some of the things you are doing. So keep doing them!

How about GAL? Are you able to take some time to yourself during all of this turmoil - even if its just going out to lunch or a quiet glass of wine somewhere. It just helps to have "Lost08 Time".





Keep posting Lost08. Lets see if you can smile twice today.

[Lost08]

TY so much, Azzork. The smiles didn't come yesterday, but maybe they will today? I'm feeling so low. I really hope they come. Been awake since 3:30am. I know that's bad. I'll be tired and I'm more emotional when I'm tired, but sleep eludes me.

We had to go to the mall yesterday for school shopping and new bedding, etc. for the apartment.

The mall was filled with so many people speaking the primary language of the country H travels to - so many women - and I started having overwhelming anxiety. Such pain in my chest. I kept thinking about the OW and how different women resembled her and how I was surrounded by them and couldn't understand what they were saying...H is not quite fluent yet, but he understands most everything they say and when he met up with me after being in another department, I could see in his face something I didn't want to see. I can tell his misses OW and this must have all reminded him of her. He kept looking at the other women and their families. He could barely meet my eyes. And, then, shortly after, he had a blow up with my son.

And, of course, while I was struggling to contain my anxiety and talk myself down in my head, my D, who was so happy to be finally school shopping & completely unaware that I was nearing a panic attack, starting telling me about her plans to celebrate H's birthday (in December.) She's making these plans and finding gifts so she's not doing it last minute. She took out her phone when we were alone and showed me all these great pictures she found of herself and H and how she's going to frame them for him and says maybe she'll also include S, too, so he can add pics of himself and H.

I started to tear up and D noticed, asking me if I was crying. No, I told her. What a wonderful gift I said. I said that was so nice.

Had to go into a dressing room and breathe and try so hard not to full on bawl. And work on thought stopping as all I was thinking 'H is already gone in his heart and physically leaving and who knows if he's coming back?' And how it will tear my children apart...Oh, how I want to spare them that pain.

H was very restless. Hates shopping. Went off to look for things for himself for his upcoming departure. Took S with him while my D and I looked for clothes. S hates shopping, too, and was very tired, whiny and complaining about how much his legs hurt. He pushed H over the edge. H was so fed up and angry, he ended up yelling, walking away, leaving the mall and going home on his own. (We had driven separate cars b/c H was already annoyed before we went out.)

I was overcome with this need to protect S, which is silly b/c it's not like H would ever try to hurt him. And in my head I'm screaming to my S "Please just stop! We're driving Daddy away! He's already mostly out the door!" OMG I wanted to sit down and cry right there in the store as H stormed off. He's so clearly annoyed with our family and everything we represent that he doesn't like.

I HATE THIS. I HATE seeing how disgusted or annoyed H is with us.

Anyway, before H left the mall, he did come back in and asked if I was going to keep S with me or if I wanted him to take him home. I told him I didn't want to send S home with him like that and I would keep him. I know my S was so tired, could see the circles under his eyes and he was hungry and needed some supplies for himself. And he just needed patience and love and H was not in a patient mood.

So, off I went with both kids while H went home. I put my mask back on and tried to act "as if" the rest of the night. I did accomplish some things and the kids actually got along and goofed around together in the next store instead of fighting with one another.

When we got home, H had put the chicken in the oven like I had asked and I had to do very little to finish preparing the meal. I'm so exhausted.

I know this question is pointless but this morning in the dark it keeps invading my thoughts. Why? Why did he have to make the choice to turn to another woman, open up to her and "fall in love?" This man that always had such integrity, such character. Who was always a good man. The people in our lives would be shocked that he is having an A. It's so unexpected. So out of character. Why wasn't I enough?

I know I'll never have the answers to those questions. I'm trying to run from them, ignore them, forget them.

We certainly did not have a perfect marriage. But it always seemed so strong to me. And when we had some bumps in the road, I thought we were able to work them out. How could I have been so blind?

A memory keeps coming back to me. Several years ago, I had a very rare work trip and there was a man who hit on me. Actually tried to kiss me. And I immediately backed away and clearly said "No, I'm married." And walked away. And believe me when I say the chemistry was momentarily insane. That kiss could have been so good. Now, mind you, this wasn't someone I knew and worked with and was having an EA with - it was pure, instant physical attraction. But still, why couldn't my H do the same? Why couldn't he put his M above his desires in the moment? Am I so easily disposable? After 20 years of loving one another, I mean that little to him? I feel so worthless and so hurt.

Azzork,

the changes I've been making, are they making it too comfortable for H? So he's cake eating? I don't know what's right anymore. Do I continue with my changes b/c they're good for the family anyway or do I change my methods so he can see how much he's losing? I figure he's leaving anyway so maybe I should keep making this a positive place? Confused.

Oh, man. Cheeseless tunnels? I need to find my way out of this maze.

Back to "as if" and putting on my mask...PMA!!

I'm going to vomit.

[Lost08]

geez I can't believe I'm posting again already but I am so pissed!!

H is so selfish.
He still sleeps in my bed naked. Albeit, he makes sure to not be seen climbing in and he makes sure he's tucked in all around, but still without clothes b/c he's not comfortable sleeping with clothes on. Nevermind the fact that I practically salivate like a dog at the thought of physical contact. I have to lie there every night and ignore him, naked, right next to me. I have all my clothes on since he's just thinking about OW and doesn't want me at all. Up until he met her, H was always attracted to me, sometimes excited just at the thought of touching me. He used to say "I can't believe after 20 years how much I still want you." Now, eh, I'm just a friend, I guess.?

Am I making anyone else want to vomit? Well, I myself better head back to the bathroom.

Anyway, this morning, after he gets up and gets dressed, he casually mentions in conversation about S's upcoming baseball schedule that he's leaving a day earlier. AND WHEN did he plan on letting me in on that? He's swears he told me already, weeks ago he says, but, NO he didn't. Forget all that sh** about whether or not I should be here to say good-bye when he leaves. Now I have no choice but to cancel my shift at the hospital while he happily goes off to play. There's no one else to take S to his game, he may already have to miss 2 or 3 more due to our new hectic schedule and the I am the only parent present. S is already having trouble with the changes from the move. Asking me if we can just stay in our house. I haven't even told him or my D their father is going to be away even longer and miss Halloween, Thanksgiving, his birthday and maybe Christmas with us.

GRRRRRRR. I'm so mad!!!

Detach Detach Detach Detach Detach Detach

[mutatio]

Lost, I was asked by my wife not to touch her in January so I like many get your bed moment. The complete lack of emotional and physical intimacy is a constant struggle for me.

Keep posting its good for you to let it out.

[Azzork]

I watched a TED talk by Esther Perel yesterday and I really found this to be interesting:
But then we have another paradox that we're dealing with these days. Because of this romantic ideal, we are relying on our partner's fidelity with a unique fervor. But we also have never been more inclined to stray, and not because we have new desires today, but because we live in an era where we feel that we are entitled to pursue our desires, because this is the culture where I deserve to be happy. And if we used to divorce because we were unhappy, today we divorce because we could be happier. And if divorce carried all the shame, today, choosing to stay when you can leave is the new shame.

The reason I pulled that quote here to you is that I fear that you are tying yourself in a knot wondering about the will hes and won't hes and what ifs and so on. Ultimately, I believe that in cases like this, the WS just has to really see if they are going to be happier in that new life. Holding him back only makes that grass look so much greener. Once that idea of "I deserve to be happier" creeps in, it's easy to conjure ways to make that so. The easiest thing to do is decide that the LBS is not providing enough "happiness food" and seek out someone "better". We know that most times that's not going to be the case, but they certainly aren't going to listen to us.

One more quote from that talk I liked:
I've also told quite a few of my patients that if they could bring into their relationships one tenth of the boldness, the imagination and the verve that they put into their affairs, they probably would never need to see me.


Ok. So what's my point?
At the end of the day, he is going to do what he is going to do. He's going to be out of the country for months, so I wouldn't worry too much about what's going on right now as to whether you should do this or do that. Do what YOU want. One trip to the all or one soccer game or whatever isn't going to be the thing to savior destroy your marriage. So work on your changes and just do them for you. That's really all you can do.

[Zues126]

Lost- no question what WAH is doing is wrong, and the pain inflicted on you is the worst in the world. And because of that, it is perfectly reasonable to be angry for him hurting you. I know this board is a safe place for you to vent where people understand.

For your sake and your families I would hope that you can transcend some of this anger. If you feel WAH is comparing you to OW, how do you suppose you look when you're seething, bitter, raging, emotionally and critical?

Oh, we can go right back to justifying anger with 'I shouldn't have to audition for my M', which is true. But the last poster that typed those words didn't stay on these boards long, she venomously filed for D, insisted she wasn't looking back and was better off without him, and on the whole continued her intermittent updates in the fashion that would make me want to stay the heck away from her if I met her on the street. Get this out of your system, but don't let that consume you.

It's funny, I saw a lot of good in those interactions. H was there shopping with you, doing something with the family, even if he didn't like it. After he lost his temper he calmed down and checked back in with you to ask your opinion. Did you thank him for those things? I have been saying men are like dogs. They just want to make their women happy, and get the occasional 'pat on the back' for doing so. The only times most men get snarly is when they get exasperated because there is nothing they can do to 'win' anymore, no matter what it's wrong, it's not good enough, they can't find a way to please their woman. That's usually the point when they are susceptible to other women, women that are positive and affirming. This isn't to say there aren't some abusive a-holes that would be snarly no matter what, but if that's the case then you need to get the heck out. I'm assuming since you're here that isn't the case.

While H isn't justified for breaking up an M, it's time to validate that his feelings are his feelings. Focusing on how unreasonable his reaction is (right or wrong) doesn't change anything, it just pours gas on the fire. How can you disagree with his reactions, yet still own your faults and negative contributions, find compassion for the pain that YOU'VE caused him, and lead the way with your own personal growth? I try to live with this motto: Showcase the character you wished he had.

[Zues126]

Phou, I just posted this on lost's thread and wanted you to see it.

Agree it's really tricky to walk the line between being too vocal and too passive, having no boundaries and escalating things...but that's the walk. Protect yourself, walk the right path, and then maybe you won't be so vulnerable to WAH's behavior. When you reduce your pain, your resentment will reduce as well, and that will open the door for positives.

Lost- no question what WAH is doing is wrong, and the pain inflicted on you is the worst in the world. And because of that, it is perfectly reasonable to be angry for him hurting you. I know this board is a safe place for you to vent where people understand.

For your sake and your families I would hope that you can transcend some of this anger. If you feel WAH is comparing you to OW, how do you suppose you look when you're seething, bitter, raging, emotionally and critical?

Oh, we can go right back to justifying anger with 'I shouldn't have to audition for my M', which is true. But the last poster that typed those words didn't stay on these boards long, she venomously filed for D, insisted she wasn't looking back and was better off without him, and on the whole continued her intermittent updates in the fashion that would make me want to stay the heck away from her if I met her on the street. Get this out of your system, but don't let that consume you.

It's funny, I saw a lot of good in those interactions. H was there shopping with you, doing something with the family, even if he didn't like it. After he lost his temper he calmed down and checked back in with you to ask your opinion. Did you thank him for those things? I have been saying men are like dogs. They just want to make their women happy, and get the occasional 'pat on the back' for doing so. The only times most men get snarly is when they get exasperated because there is nothing they can do to 'win' anymore, no matter what it's wrong, it's not good enough, they can't find a way to please their woman. That's usually the point when they are susceptible to other women, women that are positive and affirming. This isn't to say there aren't some abusive a-holes that would be snarly no matter what, but if that's the case then you need to get the heck out. I'm assuming since you're here that isn't the case.

While H isn't justified for breaking up an M, it's time to validate that his feelings are his feelings. Focusing on how unreasonable his reaction is (right or wrong) doesn't change anything, it just pours gas on the fire. How can you disagree with his reactions, yet still own your faults and negative contributions, find compassion for the pain that YOU'VE caused him, and lead the way with your own personal growth? I try to live with this motto: Showcase the character you wished he had.

[Lost08]

[quote=Azzork]
[color:#3333FF]
The reason I pulled that quote here to you is that I fear that you are tying yourself in a knot wondering about the will hes and won't hes and what ifs and so on. Ultimately, I believe that in cases like this, the WS just has to really see if they are going to be happier in that new life. Holding him back only makes that grass look so much greener. Once that idea of "I deserve to be happier" creeps in, it's easy to conjure ways to make that so. The easiest thing to do is decide that the LBS is not providing enough "happiness food" and seek out someone "better". We know that most times that's not going to be the case, but they certainly aren't going to listen to us.[quote]

Oh, Az, how right you are about tying myself in knots. I have to make more of a conscious effort not to get caught up in the what ifs, will he and won't hes. I often worry if I'm doing any of this "right" or if what I am doing is putting another nail in the coffin. I This only demonstrates I'm focusing too much on him. It's just sometimes, when I'm overcome with emotion, my fears get the best of me. And, let's face it, that's pretty often!! Lol

[Lost08]

Lost

For your sake and your families I would hope that you can transcend some of this anger. If you feel WAH is comparing you to OW, how do you suppose you look when you're seething, bitter, raging, emotionally and critical?

It's funny, I saw a lot of good in those interactions. H was there shopping with you, doing something with the family, even if he didn't like it. After he lost his temper he calmed down and checked back in with you to ask your opinion. Did you thank him for those things? I have been saying men are like dogs. They just want to make their women happy, and get the occasional 'pat on the back' for doing so. The only times most men get snarly is when they get exasperated because there is nothing they can do to 'win' anymore, no matter what it's wrong, it's not good enough, they can't find a way to please their woman. That's usually the point when they are susceptible to other women, women that are positive and affirming.

Zues,
TY for this. The board has become a safe place for me to vent. My flash of anger all came out here and was never revealed to H.

But your description of the need to recognize the hurt I've caused him and the criticism hit home. I suspect he feels I have been too critical over the years. A flaw I am ashamed of. I didn't recognize some of my own behavior as being so critical. Now I see it.

I did thank him that night for starting the dinner. I listened to him talk about what happened And I think I validated his feelings of how S pushes his buttons (at least I tried to do that, Not sure if I used the right phrasing.)

It was so nice to hear something good about the interactions. I need to write more, but H is coming in. I'll be back...