Still DB'ing - Still Learning from WAW (6)

[PigPen]

Good for you V!! A little ache isn't bad as long as it's just soreness. No worry there at all. I think yoga is a tremendous practice as well there's a lot more going on than just stretching and strengthening if you can drop into your body and listen to what it's telling you during your sessions.

Sorry to hear about the flooding, somedays it does seem as if the world is conspiring against us. You're so strong as it is, I'm sure this is just a small blip in your path.

It makes me very happy to hear that you had a burger, a little red meat will help you with all of this output that you're engaged in.

Keep keeping on V!

Big hug,

PP

[asitis]

You may be right on the trying to assuage her guilt, but she still is feeling guilty because she recognizes that she is causing someone she still cares for pain. That is a good sign mixed in with a possibly bad sign. It still gives you a couple clues.

First, she still cares about you & she still is focused on you and paying attention. This is an opening to connect and build something (be it friendly relations, friendship, or something more). Also, she is watching & will see your 180s, your GAL, your detachment, your lack of pursuit, and this will have an impact on her. Where that will lead isn't clear, but when you make a change, you know that it will have some impact on your dynamic. That is a really good thing.

Second, if you get the vibe that she is assuaging her guilt, then you know she is still wanting space and that you need to keep away from any pursuing behavior and just keep your GAL & friendly detachment. Not time to start suggesting doing things together yet. Now, whether she actually feels this way is a hunch on your part, so you'll need other evidence to give you clues whether your hunch is being confirmed, unsupported, or really, really unclear. Nothing wrong with the cautious approach until you start getting real patterns of behavior that suggest otherwise.

I have to say that I think several of us who have chimed in have seen more positive signs that suggest that while she still may be in the mindset of sticking to her guns, that is taking some will power and there are some feelings (possibly not conscious to her yet) pulling her in the other direction.

Nothing for you to change really. You're doing well in your interactions for the most part. I understand wanting to have a skeptical outlook to avoid getting your hopes up and get hurt further, and of course you are there interacting with her & we are just reading your reports. Still, I'd be a little less pessimistic than you are given what you've told us.

Keep on keeping on.

Thanks As, I see the positive signs, I do. I'm also a bit jaded by my W. I believe what she's told me as far as what she wants. It's also not the first or second time she's told me this. I believe I'm at that place where I miss her, love her, but also look ahead at my life without her and think it's going to be fascinating.

I truly appreciate your completely outside perspective, nor do I believe I can look at my sitch objectively. I can see the points you mentioned, and positives that Wonka mentioned. Maybe I am just guarded against getting my hopes up.

So much of DB'ing seems to be giving yourself completely up to fate or a higher power. But doing so and then doing a hell of a lot of hard work here on the ground. Fate is going to decide whether that hard work will pay off in the form of reconciliation, and the only possibility of reconciliation exists if you do that hard work and leave the rest to fate. If that makes sense.

I'm in for the work. That's happening no matter what. I'm excited for it, and am completely turned on by learning all of this and using the little interactions I have with my W as learning experiences. I'm grateful for those opportunities in themselves. They are true nuggets of life wisdom that I wouldn't get otherwise.

Thanks for stopping by, I've made it to the cushion four mornings this week and am really digging the time down there.

Big hug,

PP

I wouldn't say most DBing is giving yourself up to fate or a higher power, but you do need to refocus on accepting things for what they are rather than what you think they should be.

If you stop over to my thread, you'll see that I've gone through a lot of the same questions/challenges you are. I had to accept what she was saying. It took my focus off of her. I accept that nothing I do may ultimately save my M. I don't accept that what I do won't make a big difference in the outcome. That outcome may be us D'ed, but it will be a better D than otherwise. It will be me being able to work w/ her as co-parent (your child is just a furry baby who won't require multiple decades of active coordination). It will be me moving ahead w/ my life and not putting my life on hold any longer. No, I'm not ready to date or anything like that, so that's not what I mean. It is going forward with my life as it is right now (that is how do I move forward knowing I'm not ready to move on R-wise). Not living in limbo. The legal side and the practical side are not the same thing. The legal reality may take a long time. We may change course along the way. But practically, it is moving the focus on to my life. She is just the mother of my children right now. I have a life that I'm responsible for. Some day it may be more than that. But the best thing for both of us is for me to move ahead without her. She will either follow along, or she won't.

You are actually doing much better than I think you see. But that doesn't make things emotionally easier. Accept that you need to feel how you are going to feel even if that doesn't meet the 'reality' of what the rest of us see. It is your reality. Our emotional life and external circumstances often don't match up. We need to respect that and embrace that emotional reality.

You're doing really well. This is really hard. Those aren't contradictory. It is just the mess of life as it is.

[Vanilla]

Personally I see nothing in accepting the higher power.

I love the 12 step serenity prayer, it is a balance between internal locus of control and external locus.

I have always had a huge internal locus of control, enormous sense of responsibility, this current phase has taught me, 'V it isnt all down to you, stuff happens' when it does how you react is down to you.

Old fashioned thinking was internal locus was best; now I see this as more of a best fit. If I let my higher power guide me and my intuition is part of that then I can move mountains. I can know when its my responsibility and I can manage that, or when its the universe and my reaction is that which counts. As the Serenity prayer says the wisdom to know the difference.

Oh and by the way, this board and all of the wonderful people on it are a part of my higher power and in many ways I trust you all to guide me. Since I have been here, there hasnt been much in the way of me messing up as a result of taking advice.

Another way of looking at it is 'The wisom of crowds'. If you Google it, see that its an extraordinary phenomenon.

V

[PigPen]

Thanks for your input V and As.

I googled wisdom of the crowds V, very interesting. I wouldn't have thought that it would be more accurate, or even as accurate as an expert prediction. Something else to think about here.

This weekend is a perfect mix of GAL, work, writing and alone time. Woofie and I have a play date tomorrow at the beach, and I've had a very social week so some PP time is going to be heavenly.

I hope you both have a great weekend, if DB'ing truly is about time, I'm going to enjoy mine before next week starts back up again!

Big hugs to you both,

PP

[Vanilla]

That's the higher power, I recommend it.

V

[PigPen]

Eh, have been absolutely miserable today. Miserable. And I have no idea why. I spent the morning at the beach chasing my dog around, had someone watch him while I swam and out bodysurfed for an hour, came home and did some writing, and all in all had what should be a really amazing Sunday.

I just can't get my W out of my head today. What is she doing? Who is she with? Is she lounging on the beach with a bunch of other guys? Why doesn't she want to give our M any kind of second shot?

If detaching comes in waves, I just got slammed into the sand by the surf today. Hopefully this will pass soon enough, but (censored) today is a tough one.

So hard to believe it's been almost 9 months into our separation and I still feel this way.

Detach, detach, detach, detach, detach.

PP

[asitis]

Sorry you're struggling PP. I know a lot of folks here think I've got it all together, but I go through days like that. They often catch me totally off guard with no obvious trigger event. They pass a lot easier. My best advice is don't fight them, but also let them be a reminder that we need to look at where our focus is drifting and think about where we'd like it to be for our own well-being and that of the R.

With me, it is usually I've allowed some sign of improvement/thaw plant that little seed of hope when the big wave comes and blind sides me. It is hard, as even though I recognized that hope is something that really is about a distant future, I can't help myself.

I really do thing she loves you still. I really see evidence that there is hope in your sitch. I really see evidence that you are doing very well to increase the odds of that. I also know that it won't be soon. Even if she is starting to pay attention and unconsciously adjusting her perspective on you, there is no way she is going to allow herself to reverse course at this point. She has a journey still ahead of her. The little signs of change are just that. Probably if she were to become aware that she was changing it would scare the cr*p out of her and she'd pull back. It has to develop slowly and subtly enough that by the time she realizes it she can't deny that she feels what she feels for you. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen, but it is actually a good thing that it won't be soon that she realizes this.

Now, maybe she is seeing OM. It doesn't sound like this has been her driving force. It sounds like she is focused on herself. Even if she sees someone, I don't get the read from what you've said that she is in the frame of mind to want something serious from anyone right now. That's just the way I read it. It will hurt to find out that she may be dating, even if it is casually, but I wouldn't see this as a threat. Just something you might have to figure out if you can handle knowing without blowing up any chance at reconciliation. If ultimately you would give her the chance, then I'd just try to put OM out of your mind. Given what you've said, they are an obstacle unless you make it one.

I hope the clouds pass quickly.

[Fogg]

I know the feeling PP, had a similar day just thinking about W. In fact, since my coach call Thursday I've had a bunch of emotional periods concerning how my sitch began. Stay strong, we push through this just like the rest of the bad days knowing there's light at the end of the tunnel.

[Zues126]

Sorry to hear my man.

Yeah, this is a loss unlike anything I've experienced. Since BD my life has been a nightmare.

As time passes it's a nightmare where I get cosy, relax, go with the flow, and am actually doing better than I have before in my life.

But I don't think the loss is something you get over. It's just something you get used to. Like if you lost a child. You're not just going to grieve for a while and then it's ok. It's never going to be ok again...but you still have to live your life because that's the only thing to do. Doesn't mean that you can't live a full and meaningful and happy life, but that loss will always be there.

Divorce just shouldn't be legal...;)

[asitis]

Zeus,

I hope you take this not as a criticism, but as a heads up on something I think you in no way intended.

I know you're struggling, and I know you put a wink after your statement, but I really need to point out that there are women on this forum who have been abused and have taken the reasonable path of seeking a D to escape that situation.

If you have ever worked w/ abuse survivors, you would know that many/most carry the physical and emotional scars of their abuse for the rest of their lives, often making it hard for them to enter into healthy Rs again. They also often carry around a great deal of guilt and shame, and we need to have a sensitivity that they may by hurt by statements like yours even if you didn't mean for it to come across in a hurtful way.

I think almost everyone on here wishes society didn't see D as so acceptable, although I think many we think are walking away too quickly have really wrestled more than we give them credit for and are feeling a lot of pain about their choice. I think most of us wish there were longer legal cooling off periods (although again I'd make exceptions in the case of abuse) to allow for everyone to go through the chaos of emotions that are set off with As, MLC, and feeling like they've had enough. So, I think you'll find most of us are sympathetic to your critique of our culture.

And, again, I know you aren't the type to want to cause pain to any of the women here. Having worked with abuse survivors, I'm just hyper sensitive to how easy it is for our words to unintentionally cause abuse survivors pain that decent people like us really feel bad about because we really didn't understand the impact of those words.