Ghost Riding

[Fogg]

Just think how low that number would be if you included the birth date (can be found quickly looking through old threads )

[Wonka]

Zeus,

I would like to touch on the running theme of competitiveness in some of your posts.

In viewing your posts over the past several months, it is apparent to us that you are a competitive pool player and work in the sales field (if I'm wrong, please let me know). These vocations get your competitive juices flowing and it's what makes you tick.

On the other hand, I am wondering if the competitive spirit has inadvertently flowed into the marriage that had some unintended consequences. Let's be crystal clear here: I am not laying the blame at your feet for the demise of your M. Instead, what I am trying to achieve here, is to point out some patterns that you may unknowingly emanate that adversely impacts your spouse.

The unspoken message from the competitiveness is that if one isn't 100% at a certain level of "performance"--whether making sales calls or engaging in the family home---then they're deemed "less than" fill in the blank. I wonder how that mindset, approach, and patterning has effected the marital relationship.

Given that you've stated here and elsewhere some of "expectations" of what you want in your next spouse, aren't you setting her up for failure. It just seems to me that you are basing those "expectations" on your filter with fresh wounds from your W's decision to leave the marriage.

What I fear for you is that your fresh and deep wounds are coloring your worldview thus blocking you from being open to new ideas, new approaches, new way of thinking, and new way of relating that is more organic.

-What would you differently if you were to get engaged again to a different woman?

-Are you able to catch yourself telepathically communicating to the new woman of your unspoken expectations of what constitutes a marriage?

-Have you be able to examine where and how your competitiveness may have some negative downsides when it comes to intimate relationships?

[Zues126]

Hey Wonka. Thanks for the post.

Yes, I'm a top pool player, and a sales juggernaut. It's how I was wired. It has it's advantageous, such as I know I'll invariably become the best at whatever I set my mind to, and that brings financial and other rewards. But yes, it's been a curse too, because I'm definitely a bit crazy. Words like "expansive" and "intense" describe me. My IC told me I was "a bit crazy". I told him that I'm not delusional, that I didn't imagine winning all of those tournaments, or getting promoted 4 times in 4 years. He agreed, but said I also didn't imagine my wife leaving me and my personal life falling apart. Touche.

It's very funny you talk about me setting my future spouse up for failure. Others have been talking to me about the dangers of relaxing my standards, settling, or accepting a less that totally fulfilling M. I HOPE YOU GUYS SEE HOW CONFUSED I AM!

Wonka, to be clear, I really don't look down at anyone that hasn't achieved at the level I have. We are all different animals. Some are dogs, some are cats, I happen to be a Tyrannosaurus. We all have a part to play in the dance. And I totally respect others for who they are and what they do.

You nailed it though when you said my "intimate relationships" may have suffered. See, when people get TOO close to me I start identifying with them. Sometimes I catch myself applying my own personal standards to them. THAT'S not OK. The only times I've ever been frustrated with my best friend was when I started treating him how I treat myself. The only time I've been angry with my children is when I talk to them in the voice I talk to myself with. It's not angry...it's not scary...it's intense like 10,000 suns...the unwillingness to accept any outcome but victory, that any obstacle in between me and the win is in as much danger as someone between a mother bear and her cubs...And, during my M, I know I allowed my W to feel my full intensity at times.

I know I've grown in this area. I've been more aware of it. This is best monitored by how I am with my children. I am more in the moment. I honor who they are as people. I recognize they are at different points in their lives with their own views, and I accept that they have their own story which is just as legitimate as mine. So I know I've come a long ways.

As for my 'next R', sometimes I feel that's impossible. Sometimes I feel it's unfair. I see great sports heroes, business tycoons, and politicians who's wives are there, proud of them, supporting them. I learn about these individuals and some of them are way more over the top than I am in terms of how they conduct themselves in their family and yet their women stay by their side and root them on. I am definitely very hurt STBX didn't do this. Both the leaving, and the dismissal of the part of me that made me who I am. And most of the time I can't imagine the 'new woman', because all I can imagine are women that would punt me to the curb because I'm infringing on their pursuit of their personal happiness. Yes, I'm damn intense. Yes, I'm a bit crazy. But I will be faithful to the grave, provide lavishly, I'm sensitive as heck, and of all the things I am driven to do- becoming a good husband who's wife feels the love I have for her in my heart is the goal that means the most to me. But for some reason I feel doomed, that somehow this is the one goal that's beyond my ability because I'm just not normal.

So this is where I go in circles. Maintain my standards, or settle? Continue to try to grow and manage my extreme personality, or accept myself for who I am right now? I guess the answer is "all of the above".

Really, I know I am not ready for another R. I AM skewed. I can't imagine a woman enduring me, and I am so tired of being dismissed as I was in my M that I can't even imagine asking for what I want anymore because I just feel so defeated. But if I were in a new relationship I would definitely try to find a way to both honor my partner for who they were (the way I am with my children) and learn to speak my voice with confidence but not unilateral authority. (In my M I went back and forth, I was so afraid of bulldozing STBX that I would bite my tongue for years, not speak my voice, but then get frustrated that she wouldn't hear me until I'd end up shouting...YES- I've read NMMNG!!!)

Very confused, and pretty defeated by thinking about it, which is ok because I'm still M and right now I just need to be there for my kids and make sure that I close so many deals in September that they assign me a team of personal assistants...

[barbie7]

I hear what you're saying Zeus..you have a lot of determination and want to do everything with diligence and just want a woman who loves you the way you are or the way you will be..I know you will find that woman whether it be your W or someone else..I understand what people are saying about setting up a future woman for failure but I know I'm kind of different and old school but I practically begged my H to tell me what he wanted,how he wanted it and I even begged him to step up and be the man of the house and take charge and he wouldn't do it so I believe there is someone for everyone and even if you stay the way you are the right woman will appreciate and love you for it..i hope I'm making sense I'm about to fall asleep lol

[SunnyB]

Zues, I don't think there's any harm in pondering future Rs, we all do it, but I sometimes think you plan on walking out of divorce court and meeting your next wife at the coffee shop next to the courthouse. Have you considered that you might have to date a lot of frogs before that princess shows up? Are you going to be able to handle that?

I have a very specific goal in mind for my first real bf after the D. He's going to be younger than me by a good 10 years, have a lot of free time, and I'm not going to M him.

Speaking of D.....what's happening with yours? You don't talk about the legal process much. I'm finding it really stressful, and we aren't even really started yet.

[Zues126]

Zues, I don't think there's any harm in pondering future Rs, we all do it, but I sometimes think you plan on walking out of divorce court and meeting your next wife at the coffee shop next to the courthouse. Have you considered that you might have to date a lot of frogs before that princess shows up? Are you going to be able to handle that?

I'm not sure if you mean that you think I'm going to date too soon or whether you are just saying it won't happen that quickly.

I am not going to date anytime soon. I do think I've thought a lot about this. I think the reason why is because outside of an R I feel perfectly normal. My kids are good, my job is awesome, I love my friends, I have interesting passions, and even some time to read and play some chess now and then. The only part of my world that I've ever had trouble with is my M, so I am spending a lot of time thinking about what went wrong, what I'd do differently, etc. It's like I'm trying to grow and the measuring stick is whether I could pull off being a good husband, not so much that I want that immediately.

As for kissing a lot of frogs, please realize I've had a different experience. I've only dated two women. One I was with for 5 years until she left. The other I was M to for 10 years.

No, the idea of dating a lot of frogs doesn't sound appealing. I'm only interested in a long term committed relationship. If that's not out there then I'll just rock it solo. As far as whether I should be more selective and give myself more opportunities, that's not easy for me. I can be more selective, and in fact am trying to figure out what that might look like. Maybe I could have more interactions if I did some online dating or something. But not interested in a bunch of 2-12 month relationships that don't pan out. I'll probably approach it with an element of 'let's cut the crap and see if we have potential to go anywhere'. Not saying I can't go on a date or two, but I'm not killing time.

I have a very specific goal in mind for my first real bf after the D. He's going to be younger than me by a good 10 years, have a lot of free time, and I'm not going to M him.

Funny. Yeah, we're a little different here. But I'm glad you know what you want!

Speaking of D.....what's happening with yours? You don't talk about the legal process much. I'm finding it really stressful, and we aren't even really started yet.

It's absurd. I haven't talked about it because it's so f'd up that I'd rather not think about it. It is appalling to the point of being absolutely nauseating. But that's what happens when your life is wrung through a few lawyers, mediators, and courts. Remember what I said about working on a team and having everyone else drive me insane? That's what's going on.

Things are happening so slowly it's like watching a glacier move. I'm furious with my L and probably one email away from firing her, calling off mediation, and going to court. I can't wait any longer for several reasons.

One is that I'm only seeing my children 4/14 nights. It's been a year. I dropped my kids off this morning. I can't stomach not seeing them for nearly an entire week again. It's garbage and I want this changed. We've been talking about it, but it's been too long, and meanwhile they are growing up.

Another is my income. In July and August I earned about 200% of what I was making a year ago. My income is on the rise SUBSTANTIALLY. And while I want to support my children, I don't want to be obligated to pay 200% of what I would if we could settle this case today because we drag this out. We're talking a lot of money. I want to help provide for my children out of love, not at gun point from a vindictive ex and soulless court system.

Finally, STBX is playing possum. The same way I'm concerned about rising income, she is trying to be as helpless as possible right now. She's clearly afraid that any money she starts making will 'cost her', and the more helpless she can look the more she can hit me for. So she hasn't gone back to work yet even though she said she would start work a YEAR ago. She's living on credit lines that I'm still exposed on to an extent. Etc. I know the minute the settlement is inked she's got plans to burst into action and make as much as possible.

Point is if we want what's best for the family we should have this done, so both her and I have incentives to contribute as much as possible, instead of being afraid of how it could impact our settlement.

Meanwhile nothing is happening. I hate nagging, but I am out of patience. I asked my L for an update and told her she could get back to me Monday/Tuesday. No reply (AGAIN). So I just emailed her a couple of point blank questions and ended by saying "I need assurance this is moving or I can't stay on this road". A couple of weeks ago I told her "the only reason I am not asking for status updates daily is that it makes me nauseous to think about this and my quality of life is better if I simply look away and trust that at some point something has to happen".

Sunny, if I'm starting to lean on her it's only because I've been too patient too long. This has taken FOREVER. But maybe that's just because of my intensity. No matter who I work with everyone else will always feel like they are moving at a snails pace because to me it's just line it up and knock it down. Focus. Urgency. Execution. Magic...but the rest of the world doesn't seem to work that way.

So that's why I don't talk about my D. Every time I think about it I get sick. I guess this will have to get resolved eventually, and if it costs me thousands of dollars a month more because my income rises then screw it, I'll just become the number one in the nation at what I do and make so much I can leak off a few hundred grand and still get where I'm going. They can't catch me I'm the (%*( gingerbread man.


OK, I'm calmed down now. But yeah, D is pretty disgusting.

[ep0215]

Hey Zues - I just read your D status update and I don't blame you for not wanting to talk about it. I can tell you are really frustrated with the process. This is just a tid bit of info but during our last mediation my L brought up determining a date of asset valuation, i.e. the date of D filing. On this date the status of assets or income, bank account total, etc is what everything is based on. So if you go by filing date then it doesn't matter that you are making 200% more now, it would be based on what you had on that date, make sense? Something to maybe ask your L about? If she ever gets back to you.

[V2pt0]

Hey Zeus,

It has been forever since I have read up on your thread. To self absorbed in my own sitch.

Dating - I can't even imagine this right now. 1) Too much work to do on me first 2) it makes me nauseous thinking about being with someone that is not my H. Even if we were D, it would still feel like cheating until I worked through this R/M. The whole thing with an A and divorce is so beyond my scope of understanding. I don't understand how the WAS can have A and decide to D at same time. I mean I get the A is a numbing agent. Still, not a time to be making a serious decision.

Divorce Process - I am just starting this, but I will say the D laws are ridiculous and still need major overhauling. I think As would take a dip if they actually mattered in a D. Really there seems to be zero ramification (unless you have children) if someone decides to get into A...at least in my state. Actually, I stand to be penalized before my H as it relates to A and D. I asked my L what woukd happen if my H gets fired because of A. I would have to pay maintence. WTF?!
So far I really like my L, but we have only just started this process. Makes me feel I am in good hands and seems to care.have a LONG way to go though.

So glad to hear that you are doing so well at work. It is nice to have some positives to keep you going.

Hope you are well.

[SunnyB]

I'm not sure if you mean that you think I'm going to date too soon or whether you are just saying it won't happen that quickly.

As for kissing a lot of frogs, please realize I've had a different experience. I've only dated two women. One I was with for 5 years until she left. The other I was M to for 10 years.

I meant that it won't happen that quickly. I know you've had an unusual experience and that's exactly why I brought it up. It just doesn't happen that way for most people. Maybe you'll just get really lucky and Ms Soul Mate will show up immediately, but.....what I'm concerned about, hon (I'm Southern, I'm allowed), is that you won't have the patience to date and learn from a few frogs. You can think through and write down exactly what you want in a woman, but they rarely come packaged as neatly as that. I want to see you head over heels with some live woman who almost meets your expectation, but maybe not quite. Then what are you going to do?

I have a very specific goal in mind for my first real bf after the D. He's going to be younger than me by a good 10 years, have a lot of free time, and I'm not going to M him.

Funny. Yeah, we're a little different here. But I'm glad you know what you want!

Largely fantasy on my behalf, but a good one. I'm not backing off it just yet. I have been very frustrated and anxious this week, and, well......this seems very appealing right now. I'm sure at some point my brain will kick back in.

Thanks for the update on the legal D. Sorry its not going well.

Two weeks ago, STBX was talking about the possibility of structuring the D finances so that I didn't have to go back to work. Now that a L has hold of it, I'm not making full employment potential of my education and experience and I should be bringing in a lot more $$ that the jobs I'm currently applying for. This process [censored].

[Zues126]

Hey Zeus,

It has been forever since I have read up on your thread. To self absorbed in my own sitch.

Dating - I can't even imagine this right now. 1) Too much work to do on me first 2) it makes me nauseous thinking about being with someone that is not my H. Even if we were D, it would still feel like cheating until I worked through this R/M. The whole thing with an A and divorce is so beyond my scope of understanding. I don't understand how the WAS can have A and decide to D at same time. I mean I get the A is a numbing agent. Still, not a time to be making a serious decision.

Divorce Process - I am just starting this, but I will say the D laws are ridiculous and still need major overhauling. I think As would take a dip if they actually mattered in a D. Really there seems to be zero ramification (unless you have children) if someone decides to get into A...at least in my state. Actually, I stand to be penalized before my H as it relates to A and D. I asked my L what woukd happen if my H gets fired because of A. I would have to pay maintence. WTF?!
So far I really like my L, but we have only just started this process. Makes me feel I am in good hands and seems to care.have a LONG way to go though.

So glad to hear that you are doing so well at work. It is nice to have some positives to keep you going.

Hope you are well.

Hey BT, thanks for posting. I've been holding off on posting on your thread because I thought you were mad at me. I guess I need to go back to how to not mind read 101! Sorry!

I agree with everything you said 100%. I posted this on Elly's thread, my IC told me it would be 3-5 years before I have really moved on. Most people are just rebounding in one way or another. I agree, I am not ready to give anyone my heart for a long time. How could I? I feel it would be unfair to them for me to not be fully recovered.

Furthermore, I think the talk about a "future R" is some form of denial for some, like if we DB now we'll R, and if not we'll find some future R that will make up for the fact that this M died. Nope. It won't. That's what people tell themselves that INITIATE D's, I'm not going to pretend.

And yes, D laws are disgusting. The fact that there is even D law is disgusting. I guess they serve a purpose, but I am 100% on board with everything you've said. I wish there were MUCH more strenuous consequences for initiating a D, both legally, socially, etc. I can't change many things in the world so I will accept what I have to, but I can cast my vote and I can tell you I will be very vocal about my opinions should anyone in my circle talk about leaving a M. Did you know that people who's close friends go through a divorce are 75% more likely to get a divorce? Something like that (heard it yesterday). Point is I'm going to be very selective about who I let close to me in the future.

I'll keep posting on your sitch, I've been following and am very proud of you. Only one comment- it's not equally your fault and his you're D. It's equally your fault that the M stunk towards the end. It's 100% his fault for the D. Doesn't help to focus on that and I appreciate you going back to you, but I will tip my hat to your commitment to the M and the way you've handled it. It's been a brutal road for you too and you're doing great, particularly since you're only a few months in.