goal relation wise is make W want to have loving relationsip with me.
Great. (Though I'm not sure you can make her do anything. Your goal is to HAVE a loving relationship with your W, yes?)
Do you think giving her present back to her immediately gets you closer to that goal?
I'm also curious why you have so many qualifications on time and such. Your goal doesn't have to be your goal forever. But I would SET a goal and then CHANGE your goal of it changes. Say, in a year, reevaluate your goal and see if you stiil. Have that goal or not.
Agreed I cannot make her do anything but how I act and who I become can and did change how she acts with me. Who i was got me here. Who I am now becomng could get me out.
Giving her the present back immediately (later would make no sense) may not get me closer but accepting it I felt wouldnt either. Just give the impression things are cool and she can relax. You think I should accept the gift?
For me time is an issue because I have waited so long I just see myself in a year in the same rut.
I agree the goal can change and it has ocassionally relationship wise and not. My concern is really... while changing not to miss those signs.
As for the re evaluation.... I really do not want to see myself re evaluating my relationship in a year's time.
I am leaving for a trip tomorrow, do you think I should do a NC for that week or just not initiate. Let her send the sms?
Giving her the present back immediately (later would make no sense) may not get me closer but accepting it I felt wouldnt either. Just give the impression things are cool and she can relax. You think I should accept the gift?
I don't think you should do anything differently now. I have a hard time seeing how rejecting this helps your towards your goal, though.
Originally Posted By: Maximus
For me time is an issue because I have waited so long I just see myself in a year in the same rut.
How serious are you about meeting your goal? this situation is just not going to turn around quickly. IF it turns around, it could be a month, 6 months, a year, 2 years....nobody knows. I am concerned that if you are already putting time limits on this, that you aren't going to be willing to see this through.
Can you make it through TODAY? If yes, then don't worry about next year right now, you know?
Originally Posted By: Maximus
I am leaving for a trip tomorrow, do you think I should do a NC for that week or just not initiate. Let her send the sms?
Whether you go NC for a week or not is not going to make a ton of difference. The key is DETACHMENT. NC is a tool we use around here to help to achieve that. I Would say it's probably good to do, but in and of itself, it won't change anything.
Maximus, welcome aboard! Glad you found this group, it is full of very knowledgeable and helpful people that have already walked a mile in your shoes, so listen to the advice! Please do read all of the links in Cadet's post, it will answer a lot of your questions before they need to be asked. If you consider your M worth saving then it's a small thing to spend a few hours reading DB and all of that linked info.
Originally Posted By: Maximus
To cut a long story short I screwed up and she was talked out of separating a few times.
You mentioned the affair which is a pretty obvious screw-up, but you also need to identify what other things you did wrong in the M. This is a very important step in DB'ing- determine what you did wrong and change those things.
Quote:
I began to see a light at the end of the tunnel but still did not know what other buttons to press to maintain this situation
I kind of get this sense throughout your posts that this is a chess game of sorts to you. "I make this move, she makes that one, now I need to know what next move to make." But you're dealing with her feelings, there is no 12 step program for this. You need to right your wrongs and become the best person you can be, and do it not to save your M but because you need to. When she sees your changes she will initially think they are tricks to get her back, but eventually after months or even years she'll see you really have changed and THEN she might want a new relationship with the new you. Too many LBSs just want to go back to the way things were, but that's gone forever, it'll never happen. Your goal is to build a new relationship.
Quote:
Around begining of May I found out she wasn't where she was supposed to be so I placed myself in the area because a gut feeling was telling me something was wrong.
I realize you're filling us in on some background info, but I'm not clear on whether all of the snooping and confronting (both on her and OM) that you mentioned in your OP are in the past or if this is something you're still engaging in. If so, it has got to stop. Snooping is VERY harmful to reconciliation chances. It always makes things worse. You'll never find out anything good, so the result is you'll be angry and upset, and she will be too. Do not talk to OM. Do not snoop his FB page, and especially his wife's! Do not spy on your W or snoop on her phone. Focus on YOU and making yourself the better choice.
Quote:
I confronted her about this her parents and our son found out
How did her parents and your son find out? I suspect we know, and that too is very, VERY bad for your relationship. Don't try to "rally the troops" against her, it'll just look to her like you're manipulating everyone to believe you and not her, and ironically it'll drive her further towards OM because he's her only "safe haven".
Quote:
With us however and specifically me it has been a rollercoaster of emotions
She is going through just as much as you if not more. It's common for LBS's to view themselves as victims, but the WAS is very much feeling the victim too. She feels you have abandoned her needs for years. She is hurting and afraid inside even if she doesn't seem like it on the outside.
Quote:
The issue however is that if I send a message and end with an icon that is a kiss she will send any icon or will not react.
Your expectations are putting pressure on her. Stop with the ILY and cute little emoticons. She doesn't want that from you right now.
Quote:
My main issue however is the no touching and if she is with me because she has no other solution owing to her being unemployed or because she really wants to make a go of this.
Your main issue is you're thinking only about you, not her. You want YOUR needs fulfilled. But what are her needs? Time and space. Does touching and intimacy fulfill her current needs?
Quote:
As for other small matters, yes, we do seem to spend more time together, she does seem to have these dinners that she then cancels or does not attend, she no longer goes to the gym on weekends like she did before, though she wants to do competitions so training will be part of her life which I can accept if it is not a substitute or excuse to be away, she also did mention about going to see a movie (she is not a movie fan).
Those are what Michele calls "baby steps" in DR. That is PROGRESS. You talk like things are hopeless, but then you list all these positive steps and you seem oblivious to how important they are! These are the BEST you can hope for! Baby steps are exactly what you want to see.
Quote:
Am I breaking the rule about once things seem to be going ok demand too much too fast?
Yes you are. You need to be PATIENT. This is a marathon and you're still at the starting line.
Quote:
Should I back off and do as Michele says, more of what works and less of what does not?
Of course.
Quote:
Do I become more loving and attentative and just give or draw a line and expect her to make the next move?
Do not be more loving and attentive, that's pressure and she has told you she wants time and space. So give THAT to her. And don't wait for her to make the next move, this isn't a chess game. Just work on you and let things unfold how they will. Quit obsessing over the relationship (I know, easier said than done!)
Regarding going back to the bedroom, no it wasn't wrong. You never should have left to begin with. If the WAS doesn't want to sleep in the same bed then fine, THEY can go sleep on the couch, in the basement or in a spare room.
Quote:
The second argument after she got back from an errand I told her (according to the ultimate loss) that she was right, we live in 2 different worlds and relationships.
I'm not familiar with "the ultimate loss", but in general you need to be careful about mixing different approaches together. Your W will perceive it as some kind of strategy (tricks) on your part to get her back. It looks dishonest.
Quote:
Have I done the right thing and applied the right strategy?
If you see it as a "strategy" then no, it's not right. Work on you. Make PERMANENT changes to yourself. Quit being controlling and manipulative, she sees right through all of that.
Quote:
She seems unable to say "look i want to make this work so lets roll up our sleeves and get to work" or just say "i dont love you anymore".
All LBS's want some kind of definitive answer from the WAS. What you need to understand is she is in turmoil inside. If you went inside her head it would be like you're in a boat being thrown around in a violent storm, lightning flashing, rain pelting you, wind whipping you about. Somewhere close you can hear waves crashing against rocks, and you don't know how close you are. Yet you expect reason and logic from her! Instead what you get are inconsistent and confusing statements. Why? Because they are getting thrown like projectiles out of the storm. This is why she needs TIME and SPACE. YOU CAN'T END HER STORM. Only time can do that.
are you implying correct strategy is continuing as before but being more focused on myself and not initiate anything. Continue like this until I realize I am not getting anywhere and then call it quits?
Please do read all of the links in Cadet's post, it will answer a lot of your questions before they need to be asked. If you consider your M worth saving then it's a small thing to spend a few hours reading DB and all of that linked info.