I am not trying to frighten you, heaven forbid. I am asking, not judging you. It isn't my place to do so, and I think you are reflective if questioned. You are a kindly thinking father that is why I ask.
What concerns me is "I made sure that W would be present to see the pain she is inflicting on her children by her selfish and deliberate actions. W held D9....."
Are you very sure that you did not try to punish W in front of your child?
My concern is for your D in this.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 07/24/1509:31 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I am not trying to frighten you, heaven forbid. I am asking, not judging you. It isn't my place to do so, and I think you are reflective if questioned. You are a kindly thinking father that is why I ask.
What concerns me is "I made sure that W would be present to see the pain she is inflicting on her children by her selfish and deliberate actions. W held D9....."
Are you very sure that you did not try to punish W in front of your child?
My concern is for your D in this.
V
Re: "I made sure that W would be present", Sandi always says that in order for WW to snap out of the fog, she has to see the consequences of her actions. This is my rationale, although I definitely phrased it more harshly than Sandi had. I do think it is appropriate for W to see consequences.
As far as how sure I am that I did not try to punish wife...that is a tougher question. I am sure deep down I want to punish W. I am still dealing with anger and I am struggling hard to detach. that is no secret if you have been reading my thread. However, I gave my W notice the day before that we need to talk to D9. I explained my rationale vis a vis the timing of telling D9 (before I leave on my trip). She agreed that we have to tell D9 and agreed to the timing of telling her. At some level, do I want my W to feel bad? Probably. Although I don't know what is going on in her head, sometimes I feel like she doesn't feel anything. Like she is still in a complete fog.
But when all is said and done, I truly truly truly do *not* think D9 emerged from the talk angry at her M. I also do not think D9 has a sense that one or the other of us is to blame.
Parenthetically, I do think that eventually the kids will understand and have full knowledge of what happened, regardless of what I say or do. My plan is not to tell children, but also not lie. Not sure of the mechanics of this, but I will cross that bridge when I get to it. Right now, kids are not interested in talking about things at all. I think there is a lot of denial in our house despite the revelation of the D.
I am not sure I agree with it, but someone advocated telling the children, or at least not defending or covering up WWs actions. I think it was GeorgiaBulldogs on DeFacto's thread, but I could be wrong. It is a difficult question for me.
Here is the post I mentioned about disclosure to children, in Ripken8's thread from 7/3/15:
Originally Posted By: Georgia Bulldogs
Your wife is a wayward terrorist. There is no negotiating or compromising with a terrorist. They will just take advantage of you.
I'm concerned your children. Being introduced to the OM as though he is just a friend. He played a big part in the destruction of THEIR family. OM is not their friend and is not to be trusted.
I feel it is a disservice not to arm your children with the truth about their lives and allow and trust them to function within the truth as they see fit. They don't need all the juicy details but they should be aware of something like "one of several reasons that your mother and I are divorcing has to do with her inappropriate relationship with [full first and last name of OM]. You do understand that it's not appropriate for married people to date other people, right? Well I learned your mother was dating OM and, even though I was incredibly hurt I remained willing to try to save our marriage. Your mother and OM choose not to end their relationship so because of that and other private things between your mother and I we are where we are. I am not telling you this to motivate you to hate and I certainly don't want you disrespecting your mother or any other adult; however, I tell you this because I think it's important to be honest with you because this is your life too and you deserve the truth about what's going on around you here."
If you aren't sure then google information about telling children the truth. They need to truth to protect themselves. It's very inappropriate for you soon to be ex-wife to be sneaking a cobra into the home under the premise that he's her new supportive friend. I know you likely feel pressure to be kind. That being nice is the best way out or through this situation to a place where you and your STBXW can co-parent in ex-spouse harmony; but that's not going to happen unless she respects you. Keeping her secrets only enables more secrets. Be the parent where your children will seek and know truth. God knows, they aren't going to be getting it from their FORMERLY awesome mother.
So, I am pretty torn about things. Advice on this BB can be so conflicting sometimes.
Ok ... like any Forum ... there are going to be several people giving their advice ... and just as different the sitches, the advice too will be different and possibly conflicting.
Personally ... my son is 8. I understand the kids have to be told, however I was not going to do that until the D was final ... Just the way I approached it ... not saying you did wrong but I do think you had some expectation that your W would realize the pain and snap out of it ... even if she does its not going to happen for some time.
Like you, I did not lie, but it was not my place to spill beans. I sometimes can see the benefit of exposing the A with other situations, but in my case I did not feel this would 'shock' her out of it ... and would only make things harder if we were to reconcile later .. I will have to say my gut was right on this one .. the A ran its course. But at no time do I think you tell the kids "mommy has a boyfriend" My S figured that out on his own because of her actions and their R suffered badly, her circus her monkeys and now she is trying to fix all that.
Reading your sitch a bit ... yeah you have some anger there, I did to ... its hard not to. You mentioned the urge to punish ... let me tell you, that urge increases when she comes clean and wants to work on the M, I have had to really think about what I am doing and saying over the past month. I would suggest really getting a handle on that anger and urge .. for you ... its a weight and one you need not carry.
If you believe it's OK then I can go with that. You can always gently check D is ok.
I haven't posted on Defactos thread for a number of reasons, firstly I have never been sure the hard line stance proposed there is the best one and I am not strong enough or experienced enough to have the words. Secondly my WH was an abuser not an MLC and there is a difference. I also take the DB stance on not exposing an A. I don't know Rips thread so can't comment.
I do agree with GB on one thing, not lying or covering up an A even to children. I prefer a softer stance with less drama and more 'in sorrow than anger'. I don't know if GB is proposing open acknowledgement by both in front of a child. Truth darts are private things to me. I don't interpret others posts so won't comment.
Always children come first, I fostered children from difficult homes so I am very keen on looking after the children above all. There are other parents here so I hope there will be extra feedback.
It can be confusing to take advice given to another poster and apply it to your own sitch. I have made that mistake and it backfired on me, so I choose to ask on my thread and then I consider the choices. So I get that, wanting to do your very best at all times. I know you come from a loving place with your children and I always concern myself with hardline advice. There is another BB called MB with more exposure A strategies but I chose to be here because of the more spiritual stance, it fits more with my personal philosophy of growth and personal development and self responsibility.
I do believe it is not my job to make WH feel bad. Yes to be angry because that is my feeling and I deserve to feel good anger. It's what I do with it that is important to me.
There is a post by MWD on exposing As.
A message from Michele Weiner-Davis
It has come to my attention that some people on this message board are strongly suggesting advice that runs counter to my Divorce Busting philosophy and practice- the notion of exposing a spouse's affair to family members. While this plan may be helpful to one couple, it would completely backfire in other marriages. I have worked with many couples where the betrayed spouse revealed all the information to friends and family with extremely detrimental outcomes. First, when the unfaithful spouse discovered this had happened, he or she decided to file for divorce and it became a final decision. Secondly, there are those situations where the couple began to heal from the infidelity and get their marriage back on track, but the family members undermined the couples' efforts and even "disowned" the betrayed spouse. This made life-long commitments after infidelity a very challenging outcome because few people like giving up their family and friends. So, while I do believe that betrayed spouses need support from loved ones when dealing with such a distressing situation, it is ESSENTIAL that the information about the affair be shared CAREFULLY and with full recognition about the possible risks. I always recommend that, if information is shared, the person with whom it is shared is marriage-friendly, even in the face of infidelity. Nonetheless, it's still important to recognize potential risks.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 07/24/1511:09 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
RAI- I'm dictating this into my phone at my daughters swim lesson so I'll have to keep it brief. It sounds to me like you did OK. You've written extensively about how many people in your community already know about the affair. It sounds to me like your kids would've found out sooner than later from someone else. And I'm sure everyone agrees it's better to hear this from the parents. I'm also fully on board with age-appropriate honesty. I'm also fully on board with age-appropriate honesty. None of us were in that room with you, and it's always a little hard to judge tone from writing. I know you're thinking about what's best for your kids, and you did the best you could. Frankly, there's no way to have this kind of conversation that won't result in some hurt for the kids. It just stinks. Keep your head up.
I have some other posts to reply to but I will get to those later. In the meantime, V, I did not want you to worry. I am doing pretty well. I am actually abroad with s11 and s13. Although I miss the rest of the kids, I am having a blast. It also makes it much easier to GAL and go dark.
Thanks so much for checking up on me. It means so much to me to have friends out here that care so much about me. You are one class act.
(((((Vanilla)))))
I hope you are doing well. It's pretty late and I have 3+ hours of driving tomorrow so I gotta split. I will write some more updates when I have some time. I also promised to write down some ways in which I have improved. Forthcoming...
RAI
PS I will stop by your thread when I have a moment, too.
