Also, what if he deletes texts as they come in and has a whole different email account I don't even know about?
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Job - as always, thank you for your time and advice. I have more questions:
I have no concrete proof of EA/PA. I know where he was on certain dates and I have proof he was x, y, z place. I can ask him where he was on those dates and see if he lies. But that doesn't mean he was with OW. Transparency may only show if something is going on now as I am sure he has long deleted anything suspicious if A is over.
H is clearly romancing me. After BD #1 he wanted to start building a friendship and I thought we should go full into relationship. I won, short term. Then BD#2. Job, as you say, neither of us did the work we needed to. We tried to sweep things under the rug. I think we have both learned that did not work.
SO I know I need to take it super slow. If I were not up against this room to ourselves, then the friendship train would be moving along. Maybe he is not going to make a move at all when we are alone. I hope not w/o R talk.
Maybe he is going to be forth coming about OW. But even here, he can be lying about the duration, the seriousness, the number of women, etc. But at least infidelity will be exposed. If there was an EA/PA this is best case scenario.
If he starts the R talk with just past vents, then I think I know what to do. I know to STFU, listen, validate.
But if in the conversation, he indicates he wants to work on M/go forward, then I know to STFU, listen but I also know I need to discuss what landed us here, his behavior last few months and also transparency. How much can I talk once he brings up working on R? Can I calmly say everything on my mind? Can I ask him about suspicious behavior out right? Will any of it matter as he could lie about everything?
The problem will be if he tries something w/o talking about R. I know I shouldn't be initiating talk of R. But, before anything romantic starts I can say "H before we go here, we need to talk about R/M. Do you want to do this now or at another time?" Then again, my question is: can I be very open with my thoughts at this time?
Help?
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
As you have mentioned, you've had two BDs and still nothing has been resolved. From your postings, it sounds to me like your h doesn't truly know what he wants and he continues to return to the relationship and once he's been involved w/you for a while, he drops another bomb and wants to go off and do his own thing again. It's almost like he wants to keep you on the hook as Plan B just in case Plan A doesn't work out. I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't want to be Plan B and I certainly wouldn't want to have a third bomb drop after he's been back into the relationship, i.e., the revolving door relationship will only cause more emotional upheaval for you and your family.
If he is actually willing to work on the relationship, then he has to be willing to be transparent w/you now. He needs to be willing to show you text messages, emails, phone calls and be willing to share things w/you. I'm not talking about the past...but the present and the future.
At some point, a conversation will need to take place discussing where the relationship is headed and what is needed to make it work. It could be that counseling needs to take place, i.e., together or separate, but the revolving door relationship is not acceptable.
I'm going to leave you w/this...wouldn't it be better to ask him now what his thoughts are on the relationship than to wait until you are on vacation and in bed and he is making moves on you? This man has done absolutely nothing to earn your trust and respect. So, why be so willing to open your arms and take him back so easily? Yes, I know you love him and want him back, but don't be so quick to open your heart up again. Take things slowly and if he truly wants back into the relationship 100%, he'll do the work, work with you and communications will have to open and honest in order for both of you to heal and move forward from there. If he's not willing to do the work, he will drop another bomb and will be back to square one and you'll be here talking about BD #3.
Keep in mind...you and only you can determine when you've had enough of the revolving door relationship that is going on in your situation.
I guess it's time to take a temperature read and see what his actions show.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Keep it simple and on target. Do not bring up the possibility of the ow. You want to know where his head is right now w/respect to your relationship. If this is another "let's try again to see if it works this time", then you'll know it's not an authentic reconcilation, but one that suits his needs a this time.
He needs to do the hard and difficult work to win you back. If you allow him to return w/o doing the work, he'll be at it again because he knows that you'll take him back no matter what he does and he'll never face the consequences of his actions and why would he? Again, he's getting the milk for free...why purchase the cow?
Stay calm, keep your voice tone even and look him in the eye. Stay on target of what you want to talk about and do not allow him to goad you into an emotional heated argument.
He owes you respect, loyalty and yes, honesty. Has he been doing those three things lately?
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Twice today H mentioned that he is miserable in the downstairs room. (Third time this week he said this.). He said there are prison cells that are nicer than the room! (It took A LOT for me not to remind him that he moved out all on his own--self inflicted sentence.) Now he is throwing down the victim card masterfully.
Then later today he mentioned that the reason he has to get out of the house is because he hates that room! Again- his choice to live in a closet sized room!
I stayed completely silent. Any advice on what to say if he hammers the point again? I guess I could say "I am sorry you aren't happy there anymore." Thoughts?
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
You could aways try TED -'tell me what you want to do about it' 'Explain what would be a good solution'. 'Describe how you would like it to change/ what needs to change'.
This approach (clearly you do not have to use those exact words), invites the person to think about a solution. A simple 'What do you want to do about it' is less effective. Works with children too!
Problem with MLCer is that like children they tend to do what I call magical thinking, and expect the ideal solution to arrive gift wrapped, except that often they ydo not evenknow wha t they want, so anything suggested is rejected. We work harder and herder to please and they have 'won' that little interchange . . .
Ok - talked to H about R. Bea, my MLCer knows exactly what he wants. He wants to first thing he proposed.
Gist: he thinks I am a fabulous, smart woman, best he has ever met. But he feels nothing romantically. Later he also said he feels he just does the same things over and over again & is bored by life; but he has not put together that he is depressed.
He says after BD he needed to "put himself back together." Find who he was. He thinks he has done that again.
He now remembers he did love me once. But last 10 years were (still) horrible. We should never have been more than friends. He said I must have felt the same way as I never came downstairs at night after BD. I reminded him that he said he was "done" and we agreed I would give him time and space. He said "oh yeah."
We touched on my depression. I remembered that he said I needed help, that he needed me, that we needed to fix the M. I explained that I was in a fog and couldn't get out of it. I told him that he had little to do with it. I had issues to clear and I have done that. He said he can see that I am back. He said he missed talking to me. I know he is seeing changes. Even our conversation tonight was different.
His solution: the ever popular MLC option - he gets an apartment! (Job-I did warn you that this apartment is important to him. Something to do with his childhood.) He thinks we are patterning a bad marriage by him being downstairs. He will stay at apartment a few days of the week (a funny hunch tells me on the weekends?) and then (here's where I get REALLY lucky) he will come stay with us a few days! I assume I get to cook and clean up after him. He knows the kids will love this plan, too. He will co-parent.
Meanwhile I can't bring any men to the house. (His mother brought horrific men into his childhood home.) But I should date. According to him I should do this while I am still "young and beautiful." And although he'll be a touch jealous he will babysit for me. I am so lucky!
He asked my thoughts and I said Rs are work. Everyone who has the white picket fence works at it. (He said we just couldn't have the white picket fence.) He asked what i thought of his plan. I said I need to think about it.
He did admit that he can be difficult. That he has always needed a lot of space. That he always had a touch time sharing anything and had to learn that. First time he has admitted such things.
Meanwhile we are going on vacation all together. I am going to be the best me and show him all that he will miss by giving me up.
He is not going to have an apartment and come here a few days. He has always wanted to CAKE EAT.
Did my depression cost me my M? What do I do now? Help!
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
I have to agree w/Bea's question...what's stopping him from moving out and getting his own place and living there permanently? Is it because he's afraid to be on his own, doesn't want to spend the money, likes being at home w/you doing things for him? What's stopping him? Do you have any idea?
He can't have his cake and eat it too. Once he's moved, he stays there and doesn't come home like a college student. Sounds to me that he's acting out like a young adult and wants to return home to mom for comfort and being taken care of for a few days and then off again. He actually needs to learn what it's like to live on his own and do for himself.
Also, you asked if your depression cost you your marriage. I am going to say NO! Even if your h were married to someone else, the crisis would have taken place. Keep reminding yourself it's the childhood issues that are raising their ugly head. Your h would have had a crisis even if he were a monk, priest, single, etc. He didn't develop good coping skills many, many years ago.
I do hope that things settle down for you so that you can enjoy your vacation. Hopefully he will figure things out and if he does move out for a while...it won't be the end of the world. He just might come to realize what he had at home and will do the hard work to come back to you a whole man...but that could be a while since he does sound like he needs to grow up.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
