10 Months Later... XW Wants To Talk About Us?

[Vanilla]

I have decided I will reiterate my boundary to XW in the morning just to let her know the crack is there. Something like...

XW. I appreciate your being open with me yesterday. I thought about what you said and, if we did talk, I wouldn't expect you to guarantee anything to me for quite some time (and it would be difficult for me to guarantee anything as well). But,the actions I would need to see by youbefore we talk have not changed. If you're ready to commit to those actions, then I am willing to talk with you about us. Just let me know.

Is that good? Reading it I'm not sure. I'll sleep on it.

Good night.

I am sure Wonka will comment too.

V

[gan]

HP! Been wondering about you. Nice to see you back here (if you know what I mean).

So I'm not vet, but I had a similar reaction to Train and Toots (perhaps it *is* a girl thing). The thing is, women need to talk through their stuff in order to figure things out. Men, well you go off into your caves and figure it out (or not) on your own. The thing that terrifies me the most about DBing is that I am an LBW with a WAH...I'm in the dark and just can't ever see him turning round and expressing that he made a mistake even if he comes to the conclusion that he did.

If I were an LBW who wanted to R - then as a woman - I think this is exactly how I would do it. Write an email laying it all out and asking if we can talk. I would try to word it carefully but it may not stand up to the scrutiny of dozens of LBH who are reading between the lines!

I think she did answer your question but in her own words. It was not the answer you were looking for, but it does reflect her views of how her feelings have changed.

I suggest a softer approach. Not wet noodle by any means, but one that honestly reflects your position:

"XW. I appreciate your being open with me yesterday. I thought about what you said and given all that has happened it is hard for me to imagine a way back from here. That being said, if you genuinely feel that you are ready to talk about being a family again - and all that that would involve - then I am willing to listen."

[Train]

Starsky's reply was - and still is - quite brilliant, IMO.

But considering the email exchange (ugh), I might change it up a bit. Here's a suggestion, but I'd be interested to know what others think:

W, let me be clear: I agree with what you wrote in many ways. Still, I've made clear my conditions for being able to entertain the idea of eventually reconciling our marriage and family. Those conditions stand. Once you've met them, I'm all ears.

Thoughts?

[Vanilla]

I like that version best Train.

V

[sandi2]

Here's what I see. She continues with her master manipulation. Check it out in her email 4 hrs later when you didn't respond as quickly as she wanted.

I'm really sorry I even sent you this email. it was wrong and probably not the best thing to do given your silence. I guess I was simply having a moment of sadness after my session yesterday and really shouldn't have dumped anything on you. I have no right to think that you would ever want to remotely talk about us and since I'm certainly in no position to offer you any guarantees ... why would you want to.? I won't reach out to you and bother you about any of this again. take care of yourself.

Now every woman on this board knows what this gal is doing in that second email.

HP, look back at her first email. Although she admits she caused you and s12 pain, is she owning responsibility for breaking apart the family? Maybe it's just me, but it seems she is drawing you into her statements about how it's affected the boy. She even tried to be subtle about how "you" were the one who left (target shooting). As always, it's all about her feelings and she wants to talk it out..........which is nothing new. So I agree with your question of "what has charged"?

My sample response would be something along these lines.

"W, your words have not fallen on deaf ears. We all have suffered a great deal, and will need to make necessary steps to heal. At this moment, I can truthfully say that I would consider going to family therapy, or MC, provided all contact with OM has ended and he knows you won't return to the A. This a prerequisite to the possibility of becoming a family again, and you are the only one in the position to guarantee it. I can't say how long I may be able to wait for you to decide, for as you said, things have become more complicated".

[Fogg]

^^ Agree with the manipulation. She comments quite a bit how everything effects S12 and placing the focus there. Then when you don't reply she makes it seem like a mistake to try and talk about reconciliation because YOU are silent, placing the blame back on you for whatever happens. Its possible the guilt of whats shes done is starting to take hold and shes trying to figure out why. Still, this could be a good thing in the future. Something is changing in her and that change may be her realizing what shes missing in a R with you, she may just not know how to face it without placing herself in a vulnerable position.

[zew]

HP, pay attention to what Sandi, Starsky and Train are all saying here, and they are dead on in the analysis of your W. She's starting to see that her path is not great, but she is nowhere near committing to come back.

Your proposed answer was way too soft (IMHO) in that you say you aren't looking for a guarantee on the outcome of the R. We all know by now that there are no guarantees in anything, so don't even bother going down that path - it's a stroll through a minefield.

However, what you are looking for is commitment. Commitment is totally under your W's control and could be done immediately. As Starsky has often said, the feelings may take months to come back, but it doesn't take more than a minute to make the commitment to undertake the endeavor. And that commitment was totally missing in any of her emails.

What does it matter how she feels about this or that, wondering if you have a chance together, or how she hopes you can eventually be friends, blah, blah, blah. The last thing I would want to do is have a meeting with her to talk about stuff like that. If, on the other hand, she were telling you she was committed to making a R work, and specifically saying what she is doing to ensure that the goal will be reached, well that's a talk worth having.

So, you should respond so as not to appear to be ignoring her. But keep it simple, and in line with what you need, which is a commitment. And I wouldn't spoon feed her the commitment you need if you want it to really come from her.

By the way, you sound great, in control, and being off the AD's is good, too.

[HPoirot]

Hey very good morning Vanilla, gan, Train, Sandi and Fogg. I so appreciate all of your feedback while I slept. Thank you so much and again.

Feeling fantastic this morning and woke with a few thoughts before reading your feedback...

• I did not accomplish my goals yesterday so I won't continue this distraction.
• XW is not being the kind of woman I decided I want to meet in my future.
• This is only an opportunity to state my needs to her in MC and see if she can meet them.
• Sitch is better when I am clear and brief with her about my needs.
• My asking if she was OK was not needed and not clear.
• Don't make and move on decisions when you're tired and it's late.

I got here by being direct with her and focusing on moving forward. I don't stop every time she has a panic attack anymore.

So, I woke up with this to say to her and then move on...

XW. I heard what you said yesterday and you're right... these are important decisions that impact all our lives. I've given your words a lot of thought and yes I do want to talk with you about us and how we can be a family again. No, I won't do that if you're seeing someone else. If things change for you before I leave for Florida, let me know and I promise we will have a good talk about us.

I'm not going to spend all day on this again b/c moving forward. I will now re-read this thread to decide which response if any to use to accomplish these things...

• Let XW know I've heard her and take her seriously.
• Let XW know there is a way back.
• Let XW know I'm not option #2.
• Let XW know I'm moving forward no matter what.
• Do this in a loving, non controlling way.
• Do this in a way where I'm not capitulating to her manipulations.
• Do this in a way where I'm not participating in her drama.

Now I've just read zew's post (hey zew). Yes you're right... I'm trying to soften all the sample replies given here. I'm used to replying in a business like way to her or outright ignoring her.

I think the difference here, though, is... this is a communication that I wanted her to make. How can we be a family again. I'm trying to reward her for bringing it up by being gentle. I'm remembering what DB coach said and 25's words on empathy.

But then, she has not shown any commitment yet like all of you have said. Looks like I'm not at the point where I can be gentle with her. Everything she says still requires testing.

Funny... I realize I'm angling for months of dealing with a depressed, backsliding, angry, confused person.

I'm not in a hurry to send something, so like I said I'll re-read and rethink and let you know what I'll send before I do. I know each email is not make or break. I know that break is far from the worst thing that can happen.

But yes, the main thing is I would need to see is a commitment.

If I'm honest (and I am),I don't think I will get one and that's no problem.

No problem at all.

Onward.

[Wonka]

Hey HP!

Welcome back to the Fun House! Good to hear from you again.

You need to feel emotionally safe before you even consider R with XW. I am with Sandi that XW needs to own up to her poor choices and take full responsibility for her actions...not boffing them off to you.

[Starsky309]

Hey very good morning Vanilla, gan, Train, Sandi and Fogg. I so appreciate all of your feedback while I slept. Thank you so much and again.

Feeling fantastic this morning and woke with a few thoughts before reading your feedback...

• I did not accomplish my goals yesterday so I won't continue this distraction.
• XW is not being the kind of woman I decided I want to meet in my future.
• This is only an opportunity to state my needs to her in MC and see if she can meet them.
• Sitch is better when I am clear and brief with her about my needs.
• My asking if she was OK was not needed and not clear.
• Don't make and move on decisions when you're tired and it's late.

I got here by being direct with her and focusing on moving forward. I don't stop every time she has a panic attack anymore.

So, I woke up with this to say to her and then move on...

XW. I heard what you said yesterday and you're right... these are important decisions that impact all our lives. I've given your words a lot of thought and yes I do want to talk with you about us and how we can be a family again. No, I won't do that if you're seeing someone else. If things change for you before I leave for Florida, let me know and I promise we will have a good talk about us.

I'm not going to spend all day on this again b/c moving forward. I will now re-read this thread to decide which response if any to use to accomplish these things...

• Let XW know I've heard her and take her seriously.
• Let XW know there is a way back.
• Let XW know I'm not option #2.
• Let XW know I'm moving forward no matter what.
• Do this in a loving, non controlling way.
• Do this in a way where I'm not capitulating to her manipulations.
• Do this in a way where I'm not participating in her drama.

Now I've just read zew's post (hey zew). Yes you're right... I'm trying to soften all the sample replies given here. I'm used to replying in a business like way to her or outright ignoring her.

I think the difference here, though, is... this is a communication that I wanted her to make. How can we be a family again. I'm trying to reward her for bringing it up by being gentle. I'm remembering what DB coach said and 25's words on empathy.

But then, she has not shown any commitment yet like all of you have said. Looks like I'm not at the point where I can be gentle with her. Everything she says still requires testing.

Funny... I realize I'm angling for months of dealing with a depressed, backsliding, angry, confused person.

I'm not in a hurry to send something, so like I said I'll re-read and rethink and let you know what I'll send before I do. I know each email is not make or break. I know that break is far from the worst thing that can happen.

But yes, the main thing is I would need to see is a commitment.

If I'm honest (and I am),I don't think I will get one and that's no problem.

No problem at all.

Onward.

Based on this ^^^^ HP, I think you've got this.


Starsky