Ironically enough, from her perspective I "destroyed her". Which is her reference to my depressive period. But from a logical standpoint it's like "wait a minute. What about the first 8 or 9 years when I was not depressed and you treated me like garbage. Does that just not count? Is there a possibility that maybe your behavior, over time, effected me in a way that could have contributed greatly to me "changing"?
I mean, I know we talk alot here about not blameshifting. But sometimes things are what they are. It's not shifting blame but it is telling it like it is.
I definitely understand this. It's like she went from rose-colored glasses to sh*t-colored glasses overnight. The re-writing our history makes STFU very hard. The, I don't have any problems except you and the pain of the collapsed marriage, is just mind boggling (esp. if they earlier recognized a whole host of issues they recognized they had to work on and haven't). The not seeing you for who you've become and are becoming is so WTF (it is actually quite normal for those who are closest to us, who have developed a set pattern for dealing with the person we were, to have the most difficulty seeing the changes - and we had years of one set of behaviors and it won't be quick for them to trust that the new behaviors are for real and trustworthy, so this really isn't unusual).
That's what makes this forum so helpful. There is somewhere to come vent our frustrations and get reminders that this is just the way things seem to work for so many of us. It allows us to work through some of that emotional charge and gain some perspective.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
I'm wondering if this information I am sharing changes the perspectives for some of you who have been following my sitch from the beginning.
Not much. What we have been trying to tell you to do so far has been mostly for you, not the M or her. Putting the focus on you so that you can move into a healthy place regardless of what happens in your M. You can choose to be done with her or not, that's irrelevant for your growth as a person. Point has always been, focus on you, not her. Become the best BEC possible, for you, not her.
Venting is fine, its helping you get out those bottled up emotions that are clouding your mind. Get them out, release that anger and frustration. Just realize something, you are running on emotions right now, don't let them make any decisions.
Remember this also, all that justifying and rationalizing why the M isn't working and why you should give up on it, that's exactly what your W is/has been doing. What is that really accomplishing other than focusing on what you cant change?
Last edited by Fogg; 06/24/1503:52 AM.
Accept what is, let go of what was, and have faith in what will be
Agree with Fogg wholeheartedly. And, while venting is running on emotion, you need to get that out to be able to start gaining the perspective that getting that out of your system allows. It is sitting on this stuff that really clouds our minds, but we don't make decisions while we are in the middle of venting. As Cali suggested earlier, a lot to ponder for you in the next few weeks.
And, it might also be interesting after you've unloaded (I think you still have some to do, so don't get to this yet), maybe tell us why you love her, admire her, respect her, and think she is good for you. There must be something that attracts you to her that causes you to put up with all this. Is it her or is it your needs? Not trying to get you to justify yourself or your commitment, but it might help you with that decision on throwing in the towel or not to try to articulate it clearly to others.
Me: 50 W:43 S6, S3 M: 12 yrs. T: 17 M is bad & Not happy Bomb Mar '14 S 5 Feb '15 D Bomb 13 Apr '15 (but "no hurry") DB Coach May '15 Wants proceed on D Aug '15 Starting 1-on-1 negotiations Sept '15
I can remember back in November having to tell the kids that I was going to go stay with my parents for a while.
With my daughter being only 2 I simply told her that I was going to go have a sleepover.
With my son, he asked how long I'd be gone for. I told him 3 months. His response was "but Dad that is like a whole summer vacation".
Those first three months he and I had a countdown. Every day I saw him he would ask "how many more days left till you come home?"
Heartbreaking.
Definitely heartbreaking. I'm glad you clarified the W's behavior toward the son, but I'd point that you also said that she knows he is your weak point to get at you. That set off alarms in my head.
I think talking w/ an IC or MC with family counseling training would be very helpful in discussing how to talk to your children about S, esp. when your 3 months response turned out not to be true.
I know in my case, I've made clear that mommy doesn't want to be around daddy right now, and we aren't sure if she will change her mind. We both love you and you are our priority and always will be. When we came home from our vacation and I said that even though it was normally going to be my days in the house & w/ them, it was important that they get back to the house and that I knew they wanted to be with their mom after 11 days apart. He asked why we couldn't all be together. I reiterated that mom didn't feel comfortable being around me. He said, "but that's not fair." God, kids sometimes hit the nail on the head. I had to go into a long talk with him about how life isn't always fair, and that we have to do what's best with the situation as it is, not how we want it to be. And, that his and his brother's happiness was the most important thing to me and his mom, and that I'd be OK knowing that I was doing my best for him and his brother.
Didn't say that I thought his mother didn't understand that what was best for the kids was to grow up and do the hard work to rebuild the M and keep the family together. It is definitely heartbreaking, but standing up in the middle of all of that and doing what is best is what being a grown up is all about. I think that is something so many of us on this forum have to be proud of even while we all wish things were better.
Very well said. I explain things to my son in sort of the same way. That mom needs some space and we have to respect that and that I don't know what is going to happen.
BEC - I'm not sure you're actually hearing what I'm saying, which is fine. But I want to leave you with this analogy. You do what you want with it. Sorry for the length.
Let's pretend your boss pulled you into his office and said "BEClem, this isn't working. Come back in three months and we'll reevaluate things." So you did. And in those three months, you were upset to not be working, but mostly you sat around waiting for the three months to be up thinking "they can't even run without me doing X,Y and Z"
When it ended, your boss thought "Hmmmm...looks like the same BEC." And said lets do another 3 months. Now you're starting to get angry. You still want the job so you start DOING X, Y, and Z so that they'll appreciate you and take you back.
The next three months ends, and boss still thinks the same. So he tells you that the separation is indefinite. So now you're uoset. You start coming by every week saying "I'm doing these things. I'll be better now. You need me. I need this job, etc." But your boss still refuses.
So now you're getting angry. My pay was too low, my hours were too long, my boss yelled at me a lot. And so on. Of course, your friends are going to say "[censored] them. Go get a better job." What else would they tell you? They know that's going to make you happy.
Here is what WE have been telling you to do. Look at why you don't have this job and fix those things. Dress and act more professionally, show up on time, stop taking smoke breaks, take a training class....whatever it is. You actually become a better candidate and your boss may change his mind. Maybe not. Here's the thing. You aren't going to find a good job WITHOUT DOING THOSE THINGS ANYWAY.
So, sure, you can call your boss today and tell him to go [censored] himself sideways, but what does that get you? All you've done is burn the bridge to getting that job back. You still need to do exactly the same things to go get another job. Why not do them now, before you burn the bridge?
Hopefully this makes sense. I get that you feel rejected and worn out. You've spent 228 days trying to convince your wife to take you back. But in my opinion, you are still the same BECLEM that joined this site several weeks ago. Why would your W think anything will be different if she were to take you back now?
You know I left so much of this complete backstory out until now.
I'm wondering if this information I am sharing changes the perspectives for some of you who have been following my sitch from the beginning.
I just never disclosed the ENTIRE marriage.
Not one bit ... if anything is more clear to me now .. .its the fact you live in your wife's head. Setting these timelines is completely counterproductive because as Matt has touched on .. you are simply waiting for 'August' without WORKING .... I have yet to see one DB tactic be put into place by you .... yet you are still here, we are still here, when will you suffer enough to change and start doing the work?
BE ... what is it you want?
W to allow you home? W to stop her EA or whatever it is with OM? Save your marriage?
What is it that you WANT?
Now ... what do you NEED? because there is a huge difference.
Here is the problem, from what I can read about what you WANT ... those things are not going to happen until you make some changes ... you are now keeping score, your wife has won here, here, and here ... and you have lost here, there, and over there. This is not doing you any good ... nor will it get you back home. And it is movement in the WRONG direction.
Your thread title ... sounds like DB .. but the content ... not so much ... if I can see this just by what you share here .. what is your W observing .. no change, infact just increased justification she was right all along about your M.
Decide what you want to do ... maybe you will suffer enough to do the work on yourself that you need to do ... maybe you throw your hands up and walk away ... it is really your choice .. but so far I have not seen personal growth from you .... hence no progress in your situation
Sorry for the harsh 2x4 but its tough to try and help someone who is hell bent on grabbing anchors as they are drowning.
Ok .. I will just use myself here. I was Mr Nice Guy. A fixer .. and conflict avoid. If W was upset .. maybe it was that the back porch looked dirty, she would mention it I would grab the power washer and clean it off thinking .. ok .. clean backyard ... happy wife. Well this sounds good on the surface it created a very large issue in my M, because by me performing these acts I missed the fact that my W WANTED things to be clean and tidy ... the NEED was more about me being more hands on and doing these thigns without her 'nagging'
Conversely ... I did these things thinking .. ok she is happy and now maybe I will be loved or receive some affection. I cleaned the porch WANTING her to be nice and show me affection, however I never TOLD her that I NEEDED this, its my LL, I need physical touch and connection to feel intimate, where she NEEDS emotional closeness to feel that .... she wanted me to do these things .. but needed me to be in-tune with her and know this without being tole .... I in-turn wanted her to show affection but never communicated with her this is a NEED for me emotionally.
Want ... the yard clean Need... emotional connection
When we get in trouble is when our NEEDS are not being met ... 3rd parties get involved and start filling those ... the Wants are just things that start irritations. OM filled the 'needs' while I was still doing the 'Wants'
