WAS or what

[roist]

I am pulling back from my wife, slowly but surely. I have been busier when at the house, doing stuff out of the house. I've reduced texting by 90%. I initiate less conversations. I no longer ask if she is coming to bed, I just say that I am going. (She usually follows not long after). I don't come into contact on the couch, but am not far either. There are other examples but ye get the idea. All of this is similar to some of how we interacted before I started working on saving M, with the important difference that I am not doing it coldly or harshely and mentally I am not negative.

This is not easy for two reasons. Firstly it is counter-intuitive, which is to be expected after everything I have read here. Secondly I have been "trying" and working on saving our M for six months and pulling back feels like abandoning some small progress. For example we have had some good texting chats and communication had improved. Also having not yet experienced the BOMB, I am not sure if I should be going as extreme as LRT yet. Again I ask is the fact that no bomb has dropped significant or not?

Before someone here advised me to forget about the R and just work on me and on my 180s. Does that mean to not pull back?

But tbh I don't want to put up with being roommates with kids, which basically we are. I am working on detaching, and concentrating on me and my boys. I am slowly increasing GAL activities supplemented by some fake ones. I am going to do two multi-sport trails with a friend, which will mean doing more sport in the next few months too.

Improving communication has been one of my goals as per DR, so to stop initiating conversation as per sandi's rules is hard. In a few weeks I am going away for a few days with my wife. That will mean a good bit of time alone together. I am not sure how to approach that.

I am sure ye hear hesitation and uncertainty in my posts. But I am committed to following the principals and advice here.
All feedback welcome.

[Zephyr]

Hey Roiste, (i thought this was going to be short, sorry so windy)

These are hard times indeed. Waiting, wondering, hoping, dreading...this is stressful. I know you are hurting and i wish that were not the case for you.

couple of things here:

First of all DB is about doing what works. if there are things you are starting to do differently and they are in fact improving your relationship with your wife, without compromising your integrity...then why wouldn't you keep it up. The 37 rules are huge, imporotant tools, but i think that sometimes some of the items get taken/used too explicitly. in my mind, they are all things that are meant for us to use, to stop pressuring your spouse. I don't think it is a bad thing necessarily start conversations with your wife IF she is receptive to it. if she is not (for instance if she says, that's nice or some other convo stoppers every time you try to start a discussion) then stop. Right? You will know pretty easily if this is working or not. Not every woman is the same. not everyones situation is the same.

yes, GAL is a good thing to keep you busy for the sake of keeping your mind off of your current situtaion. But, i am of the opinion that your GAL activities should start to be geared towards finding some happiness in your life, finding something that you enjoy doing...finding a passion...setting some goals...making you glad you did it. There needs to be balance in your life whether you are married or not. you need to be able to have a good time on your own. also, Happy person = more attractive PERIOD. our wives notice when we are projecting true happiness and when we are faking it.

your changes are for you, yes you will become more attractive to her, that is true...but that is not the main reason you are building yourself up. you are learning how to respect yourself again. you are learning how to love yourself again. you are learning how to become the best you, you can be. I am not sure that the advice to forget about your R came accross right or not, but certainly you should focus on you first and formost for now, YES???

last thing. If you wife is WAW, then she needs to have her space to make her choices. the pressure needs to be taken off of her. otherwise your actions will only push her away. I know going without sex is not easy, it is nearly impossible to deal with, nearly. guess what you can do this. You can work on your faults, to go have a good time, make changes to improve the interactions with W and take the pressure off of your wife. It has taken her likely YEARS to get to this point. It will take a long time for her to be able to fall back in love with you. No quick fixes, right? You get to truely decide what you can take and what you cannot. You get to decide how long you are going to fight for this marriage. You are here so i am guessing you are in for the long haul, which by itself...i am proud of you!

Uncertainty, fear, insecurity...these are all understandable. Accept one simple fact for your own sake, that there is a chance that all of your efforts may not be enough to save your marriage...BUT if this happens you will still be OK, because you will have made yourself a fun, exciting, attractive guy who will be beaming with self-confidence and self-esteem. You can get through this!!!

[roist]

Thanks Z.

I welcome you feedback and appreciate your views. All sounds like great advice. Thanks for the cheer leading too.

Yes for better or worse (M situation) and for better or better (me) I am here for the long haul. I have a lot if work to do but I am working.

Your feedback helped. Plus coming from a guy further down the track coming from a similar situation, is good. Keep up your good work too.

[roist]

Journaling

I am still unsure of my actions due to the fact that there has not been a definite bomb drop. But the logic of the posts here makes a lot of sense.

In a sense I have been happy with my crumbs whilst waiting for something else. My wife doesn't cringe at my touch but does not initiate touching. I guess I was settling for being allowed to touch. By touch I mean physical contact, hand on leg type of stuff, nothing more elaborate. Same in bed I would leave my arm extended and have contact. Whereas this was probably reassuring for me, it also made me feel pathetic. I have pulled back on initiating touch and although preferred more contact, I feel a bit better for not settling for crumbs. I sleep a bit better too.
I am becoming less concerned about my wife's reactions and am trying to be less affected by negative signs. Positive signs too.
I am preparing myself for the possibility that we may split and am starting to think about practicalities. That being said I am not going to move on that as if she wants out she will have to do the necessary herself. But I owe it to myself and my sons to have thought it through.
I would not say that I am detached but I am improving
I am still working on being a better me..... a happier me.

[jedi]

Hi Roiste,

Have you read DB or 5LL? I can't tell if you've read DB or just based on this forum and your previous similar program mentioned can see the similarities.

Personally I found both to be eye openers in my case as to where I'd dropped the ball on my M/R when I went through some stage of depression.

I used to believe if you loved someone it was just that - like a goal per se and once you made it you'd made it. To read these books and this forum and realize M/R is a living thing and it needs constant attention/work was a new concept to me, one that I still can't believe I didn't see before.

Like you, I'm very new at this. Good luck, and hang in there!

[roist]

Thanks for feedback, jedi.

I've read DB.

I too have learned how to continually work on M and how to treat W in a healthy R. I look forward to being able to do that someday.

As for 5ll I have not read it yet, but is on my to do list.

[Zephyr]

Roiste,

In a sense I have been happy with my crumbs whilst waiting for something else. My wife doesn't cringe at my touch but does not initiate touching. I guess I was settling for being allowed to touch. By touch I mean physical contact, hand on leg type of stuff, nothing more elaborate. Same in bed I would leave my arm extended and have contact. Whereas this was probably reassuring for me, it also made me feel pathetic. I have pulled back on initiating touch and although preferred more contact, I feel a bit better for not settling for crumbs. I sleep a bit better too.

Good, it does feel like 'groveling' for tidbits that she will allow. glad you see this.

I am becoming less concerned about my wife's reactions and am trying to be less affected by negative signs. Positive signs too.
I am preparing myself for the possibility that we may split and am starting to think about practicalities. That being said I am not going to move on that as if she wants out she will have to do the necessary herself. But I owe it to myself and my sons to have thought it through.

Wonderful. This is not easy for most of us and if you are being honest with yourself, then GREAT WORK. Have you done some research with local lawyers for custody information or ultimately preparing for what a divorce could entail. it will help you with the fear aspect of things, to help you understand what YOUR rights are and to help you figure out that you will survive / thrive no matter what happens.

Stay positive!!!

[roist]

Let's justs say that I am trying to get off the roller coaster. I am trying to stick to the rules. I am trying to move on with/without her and am trying to show that. I don't expect any positive change soon so this is mostly for me now and hopefully us later.

I have a lot of work to do on me, so that I can truly Bea better person and truly be happy. I have made progress from being grumpy and most to being slightly positive but I really need to go more towards true happiness. But it is a journey, and will take time.

My wife too has a journey to do, even if she does nit look at it that way. I am hopeful that if I can be a better lighthouse she will cone back to "herself" and me. But I have to leave her follow her own path.

I am not detached but working on it. Time will tell how pulling back will work out for me. I am more at ease with myself at night and sleep slightly better but again I have progress to make.

[roist]

The following is some advice borrowed from another post. It had been a big dilemma for me and advice on the forum differs. I personally would prefer to snoop and have any info available, but do not like myself for for doing it or more so for being in a situation where this is even considered. As the majority of posters are against snooping I copied this text as good advice.

Also, if you're looking through phone records or even her phone. STOP. I hadto be corrected too. Snooping gets you nowhere except in trouble.

As FOGG said to me, "If you see something good you gain expectations, if you see something bad it hurts you. Many times what we see doesn't even represent the whole story, and we are biased in our views of seeing what we want to see. "

[roist]

Here's the interesting thing about DTR. When the LBS suddenly (without any announcements or warnings) just lets go of the emotional rope and drops it at his feet, it is like a jolt to the WW. She will nearly fall on her face b/c she's not expecting no resistance from him. She may or may not have an initial anger about it, but usually she is puzzled and distracted by what he's doing. So then she will start doing things to get his attention again, b/c she wants him to pick up that darn rope and start pulling. She wants him to be affected by her! If he will just leave it alone, it works inhis favor.....b/c aWW knows when he really has dropped it. It is very effective, and has agood chance of drawing her toward him b/c she's interested. Getting him interested in her becomes a challenge she will usually take every time. Crazy, huh?

You have to do it for real, not just a gimmick to get her back. B/c if it's not real, you'll be looking back to see if she's watching you. And if she sees you looking back......the whole thing is blown. "Hey, did you notice I dropped that rope? How do you feel about it? Want to talk it over? Want to know what to do so I'll pick it up again?" None of that kind of stuff.

Some of sandi's wisdom from another thread.