I had a great night hanging out with some good friends. It feels good to get away.
STBX texted me to share a funny story about D4. I didn't respond. Thirty minutes later, she called twice. When I didn't answer, she texted me this:
"Thanks for continuing to spread rumors about me. You know, I'm still the mother of your children and if you wanted what was best for them then you would stop talking badly about me. It reflects on them. And tell your friends thanks for "unfollowing me" on Instagram. Super cool move."
Uh, what? Huh? Apparently, STBX has resorted to scrolling through her friends on social network sites to see who has stopped following her. I did tell two friends that STBX and I were moving towards D but neither unfriended her.
Of course, I didn't reply to this text.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Hey guys, could use some advice. STBX called twice this morning and I let it go to voicemail both times. The second time she left a voicemail but it was S1 saying hello to me. It brought a smile to my face.
Mind reading here but I imagine she was calling to check in and see what I was up to. I believe she will ask me what I did, where I stayed last night, and why I didn't answer the phone.
I know I could do a better job being mysterious to STBX. I don't want to lie or come off as being childish. Obviously, I didn't do anything to be ashamed of and just crashed at my buddy's house.
Suggestions appreciated.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
To me it seems about control. She doesn't like the fact that you aren't taking her calls. When she realizes she can't control you by being nasty or demanding she tries being cute or warm (using S1). Bottom line is she's trying to find which buttons control you.
It's up to you how to handle it. You can either not respond to any of it and if pressed just say that while you intend to be good co-parents for the sake of the kids, you are not interested in a friendship and that you'll only be replying to discussion that involves the children and is important...or you could not reply at all...or you could choose to reply in brief and friendly ways when she is friendly to you (in effect telling her the types of messages you'll respond to).
I like the last option the best, and could see dropping her a text message saying "nice to hear from S1, hope you two are enjoying your weekend" and just ignoring the other comments. If she presses you feel free to just stay dark. You can communicate on your own terms. You're not her H anymore, you don't owe her anything, you just have to be sure you feel your behavior matches your beliefs (free of control and punishment on your end, etc.).
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
To me it seems about control. She doesn't like the fact that you aren't taking her calls. When she realizes she can't control you by being nasty or demanding she tries being cute or warm (using S1). Bottom line is she's trying to find which buttons control you.
It's up to you how to handle it. You can either not respond to any of it and if pressed just say that while you intend to be good co-parents for the sake of the kids, you are not interested in a friendship and that you'll only be replying to discussion that involves the children and is important...or you could not reply at all...or you could choose to reply in brief and friendly ways when she is friendly to you (in effect telling her the types of messages you'll respond to).
I like the last option the best, and could see dropping her a text message saying "nice to hear from S1, hope you two are enjoying your weekend" and just ignoring the other comments. If she presses you feel free to just stay dark. You can communicate on your own terms. You're not her H anymore, you don't owe her anything, you just have to be sure you feel your behavior matches your beliefs (free of control and punishment on your end, etc.).
Zues, Thanks for the reply! I agree that it's all about control for STBX. I traditionally only respond to texts about the kids or bills, etc. I've begun experimenting with screening more of her calls too. I have purposefully ignored all of her communications while I was out of town for strategic effect and for my own good.
I don't plan to contact STBX until later to just let her know when she can drop off kids tonight. But I do expect her to ask me in person about my trip. I just want to have some responses ready that way I don't betray my sense of mystery.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
To me it seems about control. She doesn't like the fact that you aren't taking her calls. When she realizes she can't control you by being nasty or demanding she tries being cute or warm (using S1). Bottom line is she's trying to find which buttons control you.
Hey Defacto,
I agree with Zues, too! It's about control. She probably feels putting S1 on the phone will get you to call back. Hang tough.
How are you otherwise?
Bob
Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS) M:14 yrs T:15 yrs No children together--3 each from previous marriages Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14 Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14 Divorce Final: 10/21/15
Hey Bob, thanks for checking in on me. I'm just trying to hang tough. I'm having a good time on the backside of my vacation.
It's been a little more difficult to detach as of late though. That may have something to do with both STBX and I being on vacation at the same time. Just a lot of extra free time to occupy I guess. I just need to keep telling myself that this is a marathon and to keep a PMA about everything.
Right now, I'm trying to follow some good advice and working on being more mysterious to STBX. The trick is it not coming off as forced or as me trying too hard.
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
So, STBX called while I was driving home and I figured it probably would be smart to answer from a scheduling standpoint. Early on, I tried to dictate the conversation by keeping the focus on the kids. We worked out the pick up and drop off plans for the next two days for the kids.
(The details below may be out of order as I'm trying to get all the details in.)
STEX then asked me why I don't return her text messages anymore. I responded by saying that when I saw them it was too late too reply. She then started saying how her feelings were hurt because a handful of my friends stopped following her on Instagram. I've validated her and told her I understand how her feelings would be hurt. STBX then said that she assumed that this took place because I had to be spreading rumors about her. I responded by saying "Listen, I don't really talk to these people all that much. And when we talk, I don't talk about our relationship. I try to keep things light and social."
STBX then says that it feels like her and I aren't friends anymore either. I reply that there are no winners in this type of situation. She then says how her friends who have gone through this before told her to expect to lose half of her friends in a D. And that her lawyer/therapist told her that she would be a stronger person after going through this.
STBX then began to talk about how she doesn't feel it's fair to be losing friends because they don't know the details of our marriage. She said that she just wanted a H who was crazy about her. She talked about this a little longer and also talked about how she felt that she told me how unhappy she was all the time. I said that she has valid reasons for being unhappy in our marriage. I say again that if I had it to do all over again I would do a lot of things differently.
STBX reminds me of how I knew she was abused when she was younger and then brings up her solitary allegation of marital rape again.
STBX then said that she had hoped I would cheat on her to give her an excuse to end the relationship.
Again, I did a lot of validating and let her do most of the talking.
She said that I would never be able to put up with all her "flakiness" and that she would never be able to put up with my nuances. She kept reiterating how she just wanted someone who is crazy about her like it was in the beginning of our relationship.
In response I said that I just want to say one thing and then I need to get back to driving. I told her to remember that feelings and emotions can change over time with a little bit of effort. (I know this last part is probably pursuing but I felt like she wouldn't hear this truth from any other source right now.)
I then change the conversation back to the kids, the drop off this evening and I said I'd see her tonight
I know this is mind reading, but it seems like STBX is spending a lot of time comparing the limerance, the euphoria of falling in love with OM, to any and every flaw with me and our marriage. And I'm also a little confused as to why she wanted to talk about all this again. She has told me all of this before. Why again and why now?
I really wasn't ready for this type of call but I tried my best. I was kind of thrown for a loop by it all. The call lasted around 15 minutes, a little longer than I preferred. However, I thought it best to let STBX talk about the MR if she was wanting to. I spent most of the time just listening.
Did I do okay?
Me:35 W:30 D:4 S:1 Bomb: 01/08/15, discovered EA & PA In House Separation: 01/14/15 W moves out: 04/05/15 I tell OM's W about A: 04/15/15 W serves D papers: 06/19/15 Mediation: 09/16/15 D final: 12/01/15
Hey Bob, thanks for checking in on me. I'm just trying to hang tough. I'm having a good time on the backside of my vacation.
Hey Defacto, you're welcome, I think about your sitch so much.
Regarding the post after this one, your last about the convo, she really caught you off guard. Also, you raise a great point wondering why she's bringing all this up again. I wouldn't waste much time/energy on trying to figure it out, but I understand why you would ask.
I feel you did a good job by validating her feelings. Having mentioned that, I can understand wanting to take the call, but may I make one suggestion? First of all, hindsight is always 20/20, I know that. But since you asked, I think you should not have answered her call. Again, it sounds like you did a good job, but you were really caught off-guard.
If this happens again, you may want to consider not answeing and, shortly thereafter, sending her a text indicating you are busy. Ask her in the text what she needed. Maybe you can get a clue about want she's going to vent about and you can be more mentally preprared.
I have gone thru this, too. I've learned the hard way that most times it's best not to answer. Make any sense? Vets and others, what do you think?
Defacto really needs us now.
Chin up!
Bob
Me:55 yrs/W:51 yrs (has MS) M:14 yrs T:15 yrs No children together--3 each from previous marriages Wife Moved Out: 10/19/14 Wife Filed for Divorce: 10/20/14 Divorce Final: 10/21/15
Answer questions with questions...then listen to her talk in circles.
Wife: Where were you last night?
husband: Why does it matter?
Wife: 5 minutes explanation why she is entitled to know all about your life followed by I just wondered where you were?
Husband: Are you accusing me of something (acting kind of defensive almost as though you actually do have something to hide)?
wife: 5 minutes more of talking in circles that you listen intently upon tending to nod in agreement and looking her in the eyes with focused attention followed by do you have something to hide?
husband: Are you looking to have an honest conversation?
wife: him and haws knowing she wants truth FROM YOU but isn't really prepared to discuss herself honestly but what the heck...she doesn't have to share any truth of her own that she doesn't want to so why not "sure, what do you want to talk about honestly?"
husband: You said last week you were having second thoughts, what does that mean?
wife: let her talk for 5 minutes explaining and sharing her wishy washy feelings again you just listen, tend to agree and keep her talking without sharing all that much yourself. Then she asks how do you feel?
husband: guess I'm having second thoughts too. Sometimes when I'm out there on my own something happens and I really want to share it with you like always, know what I mean?
wife: let her talk again. Ending at so where were you last night?
husband: [mockingly] Are you jealous? laughing...continue, don't worry about it lets go get some ice cream.
Answer her questions with questions and just use the opportunity to really listen to her. In the end, you never really shared where you were, who you were with. You distract her attention to going to do something fun instead of dragging out the conversation on and on. If she starts really hammering you - Who were you with last night or something demanding an answer you could say "Are you still talking to OM?" as your question to her question that she's not prepared to talk about. Then you say, "see, neither of us are completely prepared to be honest with one another. If you want my honesty than you need to get honest with me about your relationship with OM. When did it start? What did you two do, specifically? Where do things stand now? These are questions that need answers if and when both of us decide to try to do anything about having "second thoughts". If you don't want to have this conversation today or now, I'm fine with that. Let's go get ice cream".
Then...after all that focused attention...you back off. You pushed so now you pull back again. Go pay attention to your children and leave her to think and stew or whatever. If she wants to talk more make her pursue it and again, answer her questions with questions and just listen.
You don't have to be stoic, dismissive or flippant. Detaching doesn't mean in her presence you have to be aloof and uncaring. Your 180 is to show some emotion from time to time but you do so without begging or pleading for another chance with a willingness to accept crumbs from her. You "detach" when you aren't with her so you can be strong when you have these interactions with her and uncompromising. SHE has a lot more "answers" to provide you that are a lot more important than what you did last night.
Other good questions:
1. Who are you? I mean, it's strange to have been married this long and feel like I don't even know you. Let's say you are a house, I feel like there are some private rooms you've never really let me in to. If we are maybe divorcing I'd like to know who you really are before that happens? What's going on with you?
[this is a tough question. she's probably really not ready to share much but way wards do love to talk and they often think they are sooooo very deep and interesting that you just might catch her a moment of clarity where she decides to really share and even over share. You've got to just listen. Some of it will or might be just ridiculous. Some of it might be really hurtful. You'll want to argue. You'll want to teach. You'll want to defend. Don't. It's not worth it. She's not ready to be taught but just by listening to her calmly and without judging she'll appreciate it so much more and find that she can and maybe could have talked to you more all along.
2. A recovery starts with a foundation of honesty, wouldn't you agree?
3. Wouldn't you agree, that us being happily married would be the best for our children?
(key word there..."HAPPILY". She may object saying staying married just for the kids isn't healthy but you respond "I fully agree. I said "happily married", I agree that in the end if we can't achieve being "happily married" that we should amicably divorce.)
4. Got any ideas how we could achieve "happily married"?
You are leading the witness here. You want her to have nothing and then ask you if you have any ideas. Right then you may just want to say "I've got some, would you like me to email them to you later cause now this is getting a bit heavy and we need to get going?
*I worry sometimes over detaching sends the following messages:
a. You really don't care about her b. You are fine with divorcing c. You have given up on her, the marriage and the family d. You've actually found someone else e. She should just file and get it over with f. You seem happier without her g. She's not lovable (way wards are often deeply insecure) h. You never really loved her (justification for cheating on you) i. OM is her only and best option
You can counteract that with just one conversation where you don't really assure her she's still got you on the hook and can continue cheating and doing whatever at her own pleasure while you remain her backup rather that you too are having second thoughts (notice this is flipping the choice on it's head by saying you didn't think you could stay married to her but you're now not sure maybe you can forgive her) and that you've always valued her and cherished her. Divorce is not easy for you to think about either. You commiserate with her instead of 'miserating' at her. Mirror her emotions and if she cries, you cry too. All the while you remain detached from the outcome. Either way, you are going to be fine. Then...be the one to end it. Leave her to want to pursue more with you. Leave her wondering what you are thinking. Leave her wanting to share more with you.
The internet is 90% complaining and entitlement and I hate it because I deserve better!
