gan 6 - return to human be-ing

[gan]

V, I can check off 1 thru 9...and yet the dynamic still played out. And that's why it bothers me so.

In fact, through much of my reading I actually can't relate to the low-desire partners position. I enjoy (and miss) sex and physical touch is up there as one of my LLs (though non-sexual contact was probably > than sexual contact). Knowing that this was an issue in our R I have tried to confront myself and grow in this particular area - talked to my IC, read books (SSM, Schnarch stuff, Mating in Captivity by Esther Perel - who supports your point on anticipation BTW). Heck, I even purposely went to the red light district and saw a couples live sex peep show when I was in Amsterdam just to challenge my views on sex. I remember thinking no big deal, done that. I will say that I probably relied too much on H making me feel sexy rather than taking this on my self - something which I have also been trying to address in his absence (a la #2 on your list above).

In the end H didn't initiate, it was all me...yet in our R I was still the lowER desire spouse. I suspect he didn't initiate because over time it wasn't worth him risking the rejection. So all I could do was initiate...which fulfilled the prophecy that I controlled sex. Downward spiral.

[gan]

Zues, thanks for your replies and sorry for the harsh start up Thank you also for acknowledging my efforts to be compassionate. Actually I think this is the reason why I haven't experienced anger at my H. I feel so sad for the times he felt hurt in our M. Of course he may never know this as we never really see each other or talk in any depth about our R...

[Zelda09]

^Maybe you should send the letter and tell him - if it would make you feel better to share this? Idk if sending a letter at this point is technically pursuing, given where you are in your NC? Like you said, it is something different.

[Calibri]

Gan,

I'm of the opinion of not leaving things unsaid. I've left things unsaid and not had the opportunity to rectify it. Regret is a bitter pill to swallow.

The way I see it (and this may sound harsh, it's not intended, i'm running on about three hours of sleep) you have three choices:

1. You can write the letter to him and send it. What happens will happen.
2. You can write the letter and not send it as a way of forgiving yourself and getting it off your chest.
3. You can not write the letter and wonder what if.


I mean, imo, the worst thing he can do is continue to do what he's doing, which is receive the letter and not talk to you.

Is there any harm in doing it?

[V2pt0]

Not sure about your current sitch Gan, but by DB coach thought an apology letter was a good way for me at validate all of my H's concerns in writing and express regret and ask for forgiveness. I know for a fact that my H has read it multiple times. Part of the reason I did this was that when concerns were first addressed, I probably tried to rationalize my behavior too much instead of just validate.

Also, it really was also for me and made me feel better.

If you have DB coach, you might want to run by them. The only thing see really said was to make sure I bullet pointed each of my H's concerns and state at the end that it was not necessary to respond. Takes that pressure off of them. My H responded first thing in am. Apparently, there is also a LRT letter.

[jim0987]

Hi Gan,

when/where are you jetting off next?

two things i want to jump in on if you dont mind?

first, i found that a really interesting discussion you had with Zeus. I can recognise some of the dynamic through my M. In my case i was the HDS (post kids) but for me it was the lack of desire on my XW's part that really hurt, so just doing it wouldnt actually have helped (in truth she occassionally tried the just do it approach and thats pretty unsatisfying all round)

where this got to in our case was that the difference in desire became so central to everything. If i went for more ordinary contact such as a hug or a kiss, my XW immediately felt she had to make clear it wasnt going any futher which just compounded the rejection. Its really not much fun when a 'I've just got in from work' hug is met with some variant of the 'I've got a headache' response. If i tried to talk to her about it then i handled it badly and ended up feeling guilty for 'pressuring' her.

If i tried anything to try and make her feel sexy then (i think) she just saw this as me trying to manipulate her - which i guess i was but at some levels the difference between manipulation and romantic geture is purely one of personal interpretation.

for me the end result was then not to initiate anything because it would be met with rejection and ruin both of our moods

this all meant everything to do with our sex life was then determined by her as the LDS. and I suspect that she really felt the pressure of that which surpressed her desire for me even more.

Net result = increasing resentment on both sides


The second thing is about this letter which i know we've discussed a couple of times. I'm not going to say dont send one as given the lack of contact I dont see it doing any harm to your situation (depending on what it says).

what i will say is that from my purely external perspective to your situation there is a timing thing and i think that timing is when you are truly ready to move on and can send it without any expectation of a reaction or response of any kind.

I say this because only a couple of months ago you told him how you feel - he knows you want more and he knows you dont want to D (you chased him down the street if i remember ). so he will interpret it how he chooses to and rationalising and explaining may run the risk of invalidating his feelings

If you can send something that you're happy acts as almost a goodbye letter which explains how you feel and properly acknowledges how he feels then it might be worth it, but it needs to be (purely in my opinion) about closure for you rather than because you expect it to influence him.

Following Calibri's advice though - it might be worth writing something and then sitting on it for at least two weeks (whats an extra two weeks) to see how you feel about it.

Hope your doing well

[Vanilla]

Jim

No one can make another feel sexy. They do that for themselves, each one of us is responsible for our own 'sexy'.

If WW wasn't feeling it, then it was her own responsibility to manage it, discuss it and resolve it. Just as much as it is yours to provide an environment for change for you. Truly it's less about rejecting you and more about WW internal state.

V

[gan]

So much community on the boards at the moment. It's been a busy week so I've not had much time to respond, trying to keep track of other people's stuff tho. Will come back to the above when I have a bit more time. For now, thanks, Zues, Calibri, Zelda, Jim and V for dropping by.

[gan]

So...anniversary was yesterday. Started the day with a yoga workshop (breaking down triangle poses). Quick dash to IKEA after that as it's getting cooler here and you know who took the winter duvet when he left.

I decided not to send a letter, mostly - Jim - because I didn't think I could write it as a goodbye letter. Not yet anyway (will I ever be done?) I did decide to send a text just acknowledging the day and saying thanks for the times we shared together. Then off I went to an evening out with a Meetup group for "international ladies". Met some nice ladies, one of whom is American, just moved here from South Africa after her 10 year R and is starting over. Hope to catch up with her again soon.

Much to my surprise H replied to my message later in the evening: "Thank you Gan. Good to hear from you. Hope you're also doing well."

Now I'm off on a hike with another Meetup group and regular Sunday yoga this afternoon. Happy with my GAL score this week, especially as there were a couple of dinners with friends thrown in during the week as well).

Jim - off to Uganda next Saturday. That will probably be it with the travel for a little while at least.

[gan]

Been grabbling with some ISTJ weaknesses the past couple of days. Today I had a bit of an exchange with a colleague who concluded that I have a tendency of taking things too personally. And then at the Meetup events over the weekend, I found myself intrigued by how open others were to sharing their story with complete strangers. Like the lady I met who is just out of a 10 year marriage. I'd been talking to these other ladies most of the night (hadn't said a thing about my sitch), then she came over and within minutes she had revealed her story. How this was the first time she had lived alone. How she missed the company and physical contact. How she felt like she didn't know what she liked to do by herself anymore. I was just nodding along and thinking u-huh, u-huh until I finally let out my story. It was amazing to me. I really didn't realise how much of a challenge I find it to open up about my thoughts and feelings to other people. Naturally I wound up musing over the role that my personality played in my M breakdown.

So I confess...H's text reply has put me in a bit of a spin. Why the heck did he add "Good to hear from you"? I know, I know, no mind reading. Still, it seems a bit odd given our last contact...which has left me checking the mailbox in anticipation of D papers.