Man alive AHW, you are dealing with a serious cake eater here. Manipulative, blackmailing, guilt tripping the whole works.
It's a given that you try to follow sandi's rules, but I suggest reading sandi's thread Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife. OK it's written primarily for an LBH but there valuable lessons here. Both links are in Cadet's first reply above.
Sandi espouses tough love in this situation. I believe you have to shock him into believing you mean it. You need plenty of realistic boundaries and the will power to enforce them. It looks like you are already doing some if these. Good for you.
I'm glad you found the forum, it helps a great deal to know there are good people willing and able to help you. And know, it's hard. Really hard. It's been over 10 months for me since bomb day, I finally told my WW to get out when I'm back to see my kids and it helps that she's not here but I still cried in the bath tun this morning.
Keep posting, but don't write essays if you can help it. Manageable chunks if you can. Also seriously consider call the DB professionals. everyone has nothing but good words for them.
And if you able to fill in your sig yet, can you do that. It just helps jog people's memory of your situation.
((( AHW99 ))) this means hugs
M: 57 / EW: 52 T: 21, M: 8 S: 18, S: 15 Bomb: 1 Jun 14 EA Aug 2014 I think PA Feb 2015 possibly sooner
Ralliced called me on my thread as my H has multiple addictions, gambling, smoking, drinking and golf. He also chases OWs but there is no porn.
Porn addictions can be managed, a DBer here called Sherman has turned his addiction around so it can be achieved. From your description your H has an active addiction. In order to manage this, your H has to want to do so, this is not something that you can influence. This has to be the choice of your H.
It is a very addictive behavioural problem and very difficult to be affected by as there may be codependency. Not only will this addiction affect you but it can affect your family and there are specific 12 step groups to help you with this particular addiction. Addictions as well as the extra behaviours involved destroy Rs as they occupy the time and attention of the addict. This creates distraction and obsession. I applied the 20 key questions of addictions to the statements you made about your H and had 14 positive answers out of 20.
This addiction of your H has gone beyond porn to sex addiction, the Internet becomes a tool to make sexual connections. H is attempting to open your marriage to this and if this is not what you want then your voice must be "no" and "definitely not". The nexus of men and women in this addiction are very high risk.
In many ways I am relieved that H has not attempted to make love with you as this puts your health at very serious risk. You may wish to be tested, and although this is unpleasant some diseases can be dormant for several years. Be careful on this, one of my fellow 12 steppers found she had both clamydia and syphilis from her H cross addictions and yes I did go with her and stay when she got the results. She had not had sex with her H for over a year and yes her H thought he might be infected.
You can tell H you are doing this too.
This sex addiction is an extra dimension on top of As, more than Train and more than Vs H. The nearest poster with this in his life is Joe, his W is also an Internet sex worker and Joe has masterfully enforced his boundaries.
Truly this is going to require strength on your part and a will to put very strong boundaries in place. H is attempting to manoeuvre you to an open M and clearly from your words this is not your desire.
In a sex addiction then the OW will be just an object which H will eventually tire before adding another OW or two. In order to continue his behaviour H will 'depersonalise' his OWs, and an addict will try to do this with his primary R too. It is like comparing cars when you are buying, this one has leather upholstery, that one better body work, and another be fitted with a soft top!
You need not engage, you can also see OW as the 'type' who is colloquially referred to as easy, in fact OW may also be an addict. Your children need not be connected to this. You could ask H to leave entirely as a two day a week sex involvement is likely to burn out if made full time. Stay in your home and in your master bedroom. If you prefer not to go with H to his work event don't go, use the time to clear his stuff out. Clearly H is so deep in his addiction his head is absent anyway.
There are three strategies to be considered 1. Appease 2. Tough Love 3. Work on you to make you stronger.
I have tried all three separately and use the last two in equal measure.
If H gets angry and difficult protect yourself. This is edging on sexual abuse where you are being asked to do things which you find distasteful, but as yet this appears to be verbal persuasion.
My post here is strong on this as I would like you to be aware that there are extra issues to be considered. H is being up front on this with you so not hidden. Addicts can hide their addictions when they are ashamed, your H seems to have no inhibitions.
Would H think you would be amenable to an open R?
Keep posting, the amazing folks here will help you and provide support and the vets like Cadet, Starsky, Sandi, Wonka and MrBond.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 04/18/1506:20 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thank you @raliced for your reply and to everyone. It helps so much to have someone to talk to. At this point I have shared it with no one.
I am reading DR and I guess if I could have whatever I wanted it would be for my H to end this A and commit to working on the M. We never really have been on board together. He blames me for his porn/sex addiction. I could not match his sex drive and was a not as adventurous as he wanted me to be, but I was willing to have sex until he left me alone every night to the computer and he got pretty mean in the bedroom. Anyway for sure no open marriage and I realize this is probably a long shot.
Second best would be if we could at least get back our friendship. We were friends before being married and will now always have the bond of these kids. They need both parents as they are going through a lot right now. It's so difficult to understand why he is so angry and mean about everything.
And above all I just want to feel okay about me. I am 54, attractive with a good figure. I am not the horrible person he makes me out to be. I am extremely lonely and I know I will be okay but definitely scared of being on my own after 22 years of marriage. Don't even know where to start
Thanks Vanilla. I am studying your post. Bad news I did have sex with him--stupid I know. Not sure what he is thinking guess I'm just lonely and it's not like I really didnt't want sex. The only good thing is I know it really got to the OW.
Funny, to call it cheating since they got together on a cheater's website. She is married but lives in a different state from her H. They have an open marriage. My H has already cheated on the OW with a college student. Also sexts with a 22 yo med student. He feels bad about "cheating" on her
No i don't want an open marriage. About 10 days ago I did all the stupid stuff showed him the early years pics and asked him if after 22 years of marriage he wouldnt be willing to give it 6 months and really try then if it didnt work we'd know we did anything Said I'd be willing to let him occasionally do the Dom/Sub thing with her if he needed that outlet as long as I was there. He got really excited thinking he would get two women and we would get together. He pitched it to her and she said no way.
He makes attempts to rekindle sex with me but feels guilty about her and says he's not going to let me screw up his abilitly to get an erection again etc. but truth is he couldnt get an erection unless doing something more and more out there to feed his addiction
Rationally I know that things probably wont work out with her she has no idea how really screwed up he is, but it hurts that he compromises with her and sets boundaries and is romantic and loving to her and trying not to cheat. All the things he refused to do for me. She is an assistant college professor with a degree in counseling and adolescent therapist so she is really good at talking to him and of course there is no history or stress or drama so I always come out looking inferior even when i say exactly the same thing
i am trying to make stronger boundaries. My goal is to wait until my daughter gets through with exams in mid may and then push him to move out. I know this will accelerate issues with OW as kids will know as well as others
Please get tested, your kids need you around. Sex with H should be safe, this OW could be a time bomb. Safe sex ok!
We want you safe.
This is about you, not about getting one over on a nasty OW. And H is not being romantic and loving with a pick up, he is getting his rocks off. This type of R is an addict R not an involved one. The hook is excitement which has a short life span.
My H is a compulsive gambler and I am not to blame for it. Nothing I have done, this is his responsibility. Same as you, if you want an open R that's fine but be safe. There is nothing out of bounds for consenting adults, but I do mean consenting. You all agree and there is no harm.
You are only inferior with your consent. You write as if you want to hang on to this H and be part of his fantasies yet you are here considering DB. Mid May is a month away and then what? Another hurdle?
OW is irrelevant my darling one. You are no competition for this OW and you do not have to be. That addiction of your H will get worse for him to contain.
In order to continue with his addiction any addict will rationalise, blame, manipulate and create smoke and mirrors. It may also be that you are addicted to your H, this is called codependency and it can be very difficult for a codependent to cure their own addiction. Codependents keep adapting to addicts because they are 'lost' or 'lonely' without the addict. They need to care for the addict.
You may be codependent with your H, it is worth considering with your IC. I mentor gamblers partners and loved ones sometimes and with long standing addictions this is distinctly possible. Evaluate this. Being with H will enhanced your sense of loneliness unless H is in recovery with you. DB is a good solution for personal growth for you and sits very well indeed with 12 steps and supports it. With an addict then honesty is key. The acronym HOW describes recovery
H for Honesty O for Openess W for Willingness
Honest about the addiction, open about needing help and willing to change.
Your H is not refusing to be romantic with you, it's just that he may see you as an extension of himself and that you are not separate from him. He is unlikely to be romantic with you and resolve the problem. A resource that he can use as he wishes. There is also a saying that applies here, you did not cause this, you can not control it and lastly you can not cure it. Sadly this OW will be replaced by another. Be wary this OW sounds too good to be true, she could be a fantasist.
There are a couple of books that I recommend, codependent no more and a second book called codependency for dummies.
Of course stronger boundaries will help you a great deal.
Keep posting
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 04/18/1511:11 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Hello AHW!! I'm sorry you are here but this is the best place for you to be right now.
I can relate to ALOT of things in your situation. If you get a chance, read threw my posts. You will see when i first came here, I was scared like alot of people. But like you I also kept my wife's issue a secret. The people here finally got it out of me. What a relief it was that someone besides me knew what I was dealing with now. I had no one to talk to before I came here. I actually got booted from another forum for talking about what my wife was doing. But now I am glad I did. These people here have helped me in so many ways. I am a better person today because of the tools they gave me and the help they gave me.
I can see that you are starting to enforce a few boundaries already. That is good. Boundaries are something I have to work on still, but I am getting better. I am in no way a vet, but I also am dealing with some similar things.
I see you are reading DR. Great! It helped me a ton! There is a section in there that deals with internet things also.
The links Cadet posted helped me a great deal. I still reread them when I have tough days. I agree with what Old Dog said also about the thread Newcomer LBH with a wayward wife. You could pick up ALOT from it also. The best advice I got here was DETACH. It took me awhile to really understand what that meant. But once I started figuring it out,
We are all here for you! I will check back in while, gotta feed the kids
Me:44 EXW 44 Wonderful Children M11, T14 BD 6/14 OM Confirmed Divorce Final 2/25/16 "It works if you work it!"
Agree 100% with V! Codependency No More helped me really see how to DETACH!! First thing to take care of is YOU and your kids. Another one that helped me is Love Must Be Tough and when you finish DR it would REALLY help in your situation.
I tend to talk about what has worked for me when I post to others. It is a habit from AA. When we share in meetings, we always talk about what worked for us and hope the person listening picks up on it. I am a recovering alcoholic and have been sober 20 years now. I am familiar with addictions.
Me:44 EXW 44 Wonderful Children M11, T14 BD 6/14 OM Confirmed Divorce Final 2/25/16 "It works if you work it!"
AHW- You say you have shared this with no one in real life. Why is that? Are you embarassed or scoared, or do you feel there is no one.
Most people on this board seek the help of a individual counselor. It helps to various degrees depending on the person and the sitch. Please give this a try. If you dn't find one who is a good fit at first, keep trying. The DB coaches are awesome, but an therapist would be helpful as well. If you are a churchgoing person, your pastor may be of some assistance as well. The people on this board will continue to help you and be here to cheer you on, but with some of the issues you are facing, I think you could really benefit fromse some professional support IRL.
Your husband has some pretty big problems. I'm not an expert, but a man who can only have an erection through escalating sexcapades needs help. And he is probably no where near where he will seek it. You need to turn your focus squarely on you and getting strong.
You mention that your kids are having some problems - what kind of dad is he being?
