Ganb8te 5 - Escaping the abyss

[Calibri]

Hi Gan,

I'm sorry that your meeting went the way it did. It must have been frustrating.

My heart breaks for you when I read you talking about not knowing that your H was in pain during the marriage. That too, has been the hardest thing for me to deal with. My H is my literal heart, and to know that my actions (unknowingly) throughout the marriage caused him so much pain to leave? Absolutely devastates me. And that's something I don't know if I can ever come back from. Especially if we were to D. So I wanted to give you an internet hug right there.

As for the rest of the post:

Have you read NMMNG? I actually just finished it the other day and I think your H falls into this category. Something that sticks out for me, from the book, is "nice guys have difficult times ending relationships - and often take multiple times to end the relationship." I think (in my completely unbiased, uneducated opinion) that's what happening here -- especially with the talk about better relationship, society demands it, let's be friends talk.

He's dating. He's not reaching out to you. He's rebuked your offer to spend more time, he's unwilling to work on things, you basically had to pull out getting Divorced. I think he desperately doesn't want to be a "bad guy" and end the relationship - but yet,he has.

I don't know what to tell you. I agree, ten months of NC didn't do anything. He just said that he didn't want to spend more time. He's said he's going to file in June. You say that you're almost done and view him as not willing to work on issues, even though they're out in the open.

I think you are going to have to make the decision, dear heart. You can take a wait and see approach. You can do what Toots did and send an email and then wait and see, or you can take the power and make the decision for yourself.

My heart breaks for your gan -- it really does. And I know that doesn't help you, any, but know that you've got a lot to offer, either to H or to a new person down the road.

((ganb8te))

[jim0987]

Right now for some more composed thoughts and I'm going for what I do best.. Lists

1) the man is a fool

2) don't beat yourself up, sure there was some pursuit which impressively included actual pursuit but it was tough and you wanted to give him a hug. So I'm going with no 2x4s required.

3) don't put pressure on yourself for a new plan just yet, give yourself some space to just process (unbelievably hypocritical of me I know)

4) he's still not prepared to own his bit and until he is you would be taking it all on and that may not help you in the long term.

5) the man is a fool (its worth repeating). He may be intelligent and all sorts of other qualities but in this he is a fool. Best Mr T voices now please...

6) look at all the good stuff in your life, now admittedly it peaked a couple if weeks ago when you were in the UK but there a flights. There's lots going on that's good so enjoy it.

7) you've coped with a lot worse than getting some paperwork, that's all it is really so you will cope, and you'll learn and your life will keep on getting better. Definitely not the end.

8) there are lots of people who care about you IRL and here in our strange virtual anonymous world. Know that and take comfort in it

9) did I mention he's a fool

And if none of that helps then I'll go back to my first reaction

(((Ganb8te)))

[Sotto]

Hello lovely Gan. I was thinking of you today...

I'm sorry the meeting didn't go as you hoped. To me, H still sounds rather confused. He made a New Year's resolution to have a better R with you (so it clearly mattered to him that recently) but he can't really define what that means. And he doesn't want to meet up more often. Does he just want a better R with you as an ex? IDK....

Also - he's got a lot to think about. What's there to think about, if he has already decided to file for D? He sounds a bit like my H, Gan. A nice guy, who finds it hard to say things and be straight. He may well still be rather foggy IMHO. And I do wonder if there may have been someone in the wings at BD - judging by his No and then stare reaction. Did that seem a bit odd to you?

I agree with Jim, in that there's no great need to do anything right now. You S last June and he may (or may not?) file this June. What's the harm in living your life as you have been (note: living not waiting) for a few months to see how you feel? Your M matters to you and maybe it deserves a year in that case? You say that NC hasn't worked, but it doesn't sound like more contact is an option right now as I think you need to respect his wish here.

I understand what you're saying about the hurt. I've also felt that in my sitch. Sad that my H became unhappy 'on my watch.' But I would balance that with the responsibility we all have for our own happiness. Don't take on all the responsibility for that yourself. There is much that he could do/have done in terms of communication and self-improvement.

You did pursue and pushed for an answer. I can understand that. I think often when we do this, we get an answer that we don't want to hear. From what you describe, I get a picture of you pressing to know where things stand. And your H struggling to be decisive, specific and assertive...

Anyway, just my thoughts Gan. As Jim says - give yourself some time to process and think. You may feel close to being done. But sitches come back from worse places than this, and I wouldn't think you were bonkers if you decided to carry on for a while yet.

Take Care x (((Gan)))

[Calibri]

You did pursue and pushed for an answer. I can understand that. I think often when we do this, we get an answer that we don't want to hear. From what you describe, I get a picture of you pressing to know where things stand. And your H struggling to be decisive, specific and assertive...

I agree with Toots. I know when I've pushed H for an answer, I got what I didn't want to hear. It was automatically, no we aren't doing this, I'm done, etc. But, when I tried other approaches -- I didn't get the same response. The answer may still be the same, I'm just not getting it out loud, but I'm not getting it out loud....if that makes sense.

[gan]

Thanks, Jim, Calibri and Toots. I need to some time to process everything. That sick to the stomach feeling has returned this morning.

Other approaches, Calibri? Do tell.

[Calibri]

Gan,

When I always asked H, face to face or in conversations (early on) about working on things, reconciliation, it was always met with no, this is over, I don't have energy for this. Etc, so forth.

Back in January, when we were "working" on things - I didn't outright ask him to work on things. I think I told him that I would only do the things he was suggesting (getting together, conversing more) if we were doing it with the understanding that we were at least trying to figure things out, whatever they may be (note the ambiguous terminology). He agreed. However, when he was busted on Tinder, and I directly asked and got the I'm not working on this and then as you remember, his mommy tried to break up with me for him.

What HAS worked for me -- I re-read the section on depressed spouses in DR and it recommended communication via letters. Right after I filed separation papers, I had a nasty fight with H. A few days later I said, "to hell with it" and wrote him a letter. Told him that if this was he wanted, I wasn't going to stand in his way, but it wasn't what I wanted. That I had serious concerns for his health and depression and would at least like the opportunity for us to talk face to face, and maybe one day see what happens.

Since I've written that letter? H hasn't responded to the separation papers (I'm not reading anything into that, though, but it has been 2 months since his deadline to respond), has initiated some conversations with me, opened up about his health, and recently took some really big steps for working on himself and in turn, possibly our relationship.

I've found that he's more receptive to letters/emails where he can take his time and think about things. When he feels pressure, he gets anxiety and panics. This has always been a trait with him, but has escalated since BD. I attribute the steps he's taken because of giving him said letter and (for the most part) backing off.

So, long story short. Once I stopped wanting answers right then and there and pressing H for them, I stopped hearing that I was getting Divorced, and I started seeing him taking steps to work on himself.

Will it pay off in the long run? I don't know. My M is dead, but the priority right now isn't to revive my M, but to assist my H getting healthy in any way he can.

[Vanilla]

Gan

It sounds like H is rewriting history to me. Justifying himself to himself.

I would take the great pain as being H. If H was in such great pain I am sure you would have known. The sour constipated face gives the game away often.

I am passing you the salt cellar to extract a very large pinch. it's Maldon sea salt ideal for fishy tales.

Sounds like he still at sea processing his stuff. H has to get healthy for H, frankly this is his sandy beach to play on. Lovely Gan let him get on with it, please..........

V

[gan]

Thank you, Calibri and Vanilla. Sincerely.

So much to mull over. I keep replaying the events of the meetup and our R. Although I have more understanding of how we got here, I still find it so hard to think that D is inevitable given the range of options I see for improving things. He doesn't see these - clearly. I'm sad about that.

We often see people on here say they feel like it is BD all over again. Well I get it. The difference this time round is that I know I will be ok. Just operating on survival mode now.

[Maybell]

Gan, I'm sorry that's how you're meeting with him went. I think Jim said it perfectly so I won't rehash. But I have to say... His answers were infuriating. The number of times he claimed you weren't clear on things that sounded perfectly clear to me seemed manipulative. Gas lighting.

I'm sorry that's how it went. I think you should congratulate yourself for doing your best his stuff is his. It's not on you.

And...

HUGS.

[Zelda09]

Gan,

Big hugs, I know that took a lot of courage.
You shouldn't have to tiptoe around and sit in your hands forever, hoping.
You will be ok.
There wasn't a magic word or approach that would have changed how that went! It sounds like you are beating yourself up for honesty. It was barely pursuit. Maybe you got him thinking, maybe not, maybe he's lying to himself, maybe he's not. You get to walk away with self respect and integrity. At least you have answers, and they is a gift. It hurts but would you wish agony of wondering another 10 months on yourself instead?

I pray for the sickness you feel to go away and be replaced with a nice glowing lump of self love and thanks, permission to go seek happiness elsewhere. You've done all you could. You gave him a long amount of space. You worked on you, you asked honest questions inside you, and of him. You took responsibility.

Has he? Has he done any of that?

It is not your fault, or a reflection of you or your worth as a partner!

Hugs, it's your world, he can live in it if he chooses. To Jim's point, he's a fool. PS. If you met this cloudy person on a date, would you be impressed?

I am sorry for your grief, truly.