Confused & mix messages part 2

[sandi2]

Hi Cherry. I wrote out a very long post to you over on my thread. Just as I almost ready to submit it, I accidentally deleted it.

Maybe I'll eventually get around to saying it all again, but for now let me just make a couple of comments. My H and I had a baby our first year of M. I had just turned 19. Although I was not treated for postpartum depression, I had it for a long time. It affected my sex drive and as well as other feelings. The first year is hard enough without adding the responsibilities of parenthood. So much adjustment!

It is not easy after having a baby. Most of our time, energy and attention is directed toward our infant. That's one reason young couples can have problems to crop up. Many young men feel a certain jealousy. Not that they don't love their child, but b/c they don't have the W's undivided attention. Many won't admit it, b/c it sounds rather selfish. On the other hand, many women fail to see .....or don't care that the H feels this way. Her motherly instincts for that child is so new and powerful that it is foremost telling her to put that baby first. And, that is nature, I believe.

So much of ourself is given to the care of the baby, that other things begin to slide by the wayside. We don't have the time to primp and look sizzling hot for H's arrival home after work. Any energy we have, has to go toward what we see as necessary, right? Believe me, I understand.

My M fell into a serious drop in our sex life. That's tough on a young H. Another thing a young H and father faces is the weight of the responsibility for a child and W. For some men, the reality hits after the child is actually born. Unless he has a very well paying and secure job, he feels the pressure of that role as provider and protector.

You and your H are 25. I don't know how mature 25's you are, but a baby causes a woman to grow up pretty fast. For some men, too. Other men can get afraid and start resisting the reality of his new life. Know what I mean? "Just don't want to be M any longer". Can't give you a solid reason they want out, etc.

Now I am going to be real blunt with you, so don't get offended. You have to do more than "try" not to nag. It must stop completely. Period, over and out. That's all there is to it. We women do not know what that does to a man. But if you hear anything I say, hear this........you cannot nag him and expect him to want to do what he should. It works the opposite way with men. You get a horse to do more with a lump of sugar than whipping him. Men look at nagging like a whip. Oh, and get this, a man's definition of nagging is when a woman says it more than once.........ever. If she's ever mentioned it once in her lifetime!

Okay, another mistake young mothers make is not distinguishing her roles. It's a comon mistake. We get use to dealing with the kids all day and when H comes home we just throw him in the mix. You now have two separate roles, not just one. You are a wife and a mother. Do not act like his mother. Who wants to have sex with their mother? Do you want him to think of you as his mother? I don't think so. Then stop treating him like he's another child, b/c I promise you, he will sulk and act up just like one.

Another woman is doing what you haven't been doing for him. Making him feel important, sexy, desired, and respected. You hear all the time how men cheat b/c the OW made him feel more like a man.

Look at his actions, not his words. He says he wants to have sex with you but he's sleeping in a separate BR. So maybe your looks are fine, IDK. But if so, then that means it is your ways that have turned him off. For a man, it is important that we women desire him, and not only sexually, but like in showing admiration for him. If you are acting more llike his mother, nagging, questioning him, etc., he thinks you don't admire him as a man. Sweetheart, that is what men need. That male ego food from women.

He may not know how to communicate his need to you. As I tell the LBH'S, this won't be solved through heart to heart talks right now. Change your action, and I think you can see a change in your M. ((hugs))

Ha! So much for a "couple" of comments.

[Cherry]

Sandi2, thank you SO much for the advise. Some things have really struck a cord with me there. Me and H have always been relatively mature having both had difficult pasts which have aged us maturely. However we had a lot of time together- maybe too much, and we would be jokey, childlike in a way. When we got together we both pretty much gave up doing anything that didn't involve each other (hindsight shows me that was wrong).
I don't think I nag him anymore- however I do wonder if I sound too cheery, when I ask is he coming back that night or the next day and I say "okay, I'll see you then" I wonder if I'm doing the wrong thing my making it sound like its a reasonable thing to be doing.
The thing that really struck a cord is how you say about men wanting to be desired, and admired. He has recently been asking me if he looks alright.. Though I've took it as him sort of rubbing my face in it- like you can look but can't have kind of thing. He has also told me recently that he's doing well at work. I have congratulated him on that and told him I do want him to do well for himself. There has been times he's said things which I've mentioned in previous posts which have sounded like the things he was coming out when I first got to know him. Sort of bragging in a way, and I've just brushed that off and barely acknowledged him.
You've given me a lot of food for thought. Though I am unsure how to implement lovingly distancing myself whilst making him feel desired etc.
I have admitted to him when we had some R conversations that I do feel I have neglected him since baby arrived. And he didn't argue at all with that making me think I had hit the nail on the head.

[sandi2]

Good job in cutting the nagging, b/c it's hard to do. Especially when we women wonder if they can't see the garbage needs to be carried out, or whatever. We have to remind them each and every time?

I don't think I nag him anymore- however I do wonder if I sound too cheery, when I ask is he coming back that night or the next day and I say "okay, I'll see you then" I wonder if I'm doing the wrong thing my making it sound like its a reasonable thing to be doing.

Has there been times he hasn't come home? As in, choosing to be elsewhere?

My suggestion is not to ask any questions about his plans or when he might decide to show up. Do you have dinner the same every night? If it were me, I would have a reasonable set time for the family's evening meal together. Unless he works such hours that you have to have a more flexible meal schedule. Otherwise, you should cook dinner and eat at your regular time, and if he doesn't show up for dinner, don't wait on him. Don't try to keep everything warm on the stove. Just go about your evening activities as usual. Come bedtime and he's still not there, don't wait up. Don't call and ask him anything. Don't leave the porch light on for him. Go about your life as if normal.

Here's another point, don't show him you are upset that he was not home when dinner was ready, or at bedtime. Don't guilt him about not spending time with the baby, etc. You know how we women want to punish with the silent treatment or some such coldness? Don't do it. Just keep moving forward. He has to see you being a woman he wants to spend time around. So, you know throwing a fit or crying isn't going to be what he chooses to be around.

Don't go overboard and throw yourself at his feet. Stay balanced, here. For now, work on just staying calm and not reacting to him. Don't be overly happy or cheerful when you see him after he's been out all night. But neither react in the other direction.



If you are a SAHM, it is easy to fall into feeling a dependency on him financially, and in other ways. Therefore, you may need to guard yourself from being too inquisitive.

Him asking you if he looks good, may be his way of fishing for a compliment. Even his bragging. You can respond with something in your own personality like, "I'll have to admit, you look good in those jeans". Something that feeds his ego.

I can't stand a bragger, but I was told once that some men who brag actually have a low self-esteem. Considering he is in an EA, do you think it may describe your H?

Though I am unsure how to implement lovingly distancing myself whilst making him feel desired etc.

I understand. I went into a lot more detail in my lost post.

Maybe you identify detaching as distancing from his presence. I am going to copy and paste a post from a former member who described the detaching in detail. I hope you read it carefully.

I tell you what, why don't you just think about how to implement more show of admiration, and not worry about the desire for now. If he feels that you admire him. I think he will eventually believe you desire him as a man.

Some LBS read a lot of advice and try to apply everything in one sweep. Some things just take practice and time.

[sandi2]

Cadet has a link on detaching, and this is similar, but if you've not read it, please do.


Thanks, I get too wordy sometimes (okay most times).

I am going to copy & past another wordy post describing detachment. It is pretty detailed, but it helps to get the full meaning of it. A lot of people misunderstand and think you have to act cold, but it is far from it.


*****************************************************

Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."

[Cherry]

Yeah he frequently doesn't come home at the weekend now. He claims he isn't with OW but obviously I don't know what to believe anymore. I try not to ask questions now though about that.

You see that is where I do need to strike my balance between the being overly happy to almost giving him the silent treatment. Sometimes I feel I manage to pull it off but I'm almost emotionless, or as if he is just a friend visiting- which to be honest is what he is starting to seem more like. It doesn't feel as if I have a husband anymore.

With regards to dinner, I've also got quite good at that. In the early days I would either hang around- or I would just end up going to bed as I had no appetite. Now I cook, I eat and if he's there, he's there if not- not. But I do often message to say it will be in the fridge etc.

Again hindsight shows me I got very insecure and very dependent upon him. But I got sick during my pregnancy and then had a very traumatic labour which I'm still healing from- so I know I did rely on him emotionally and physically. I was super independent when he met me and quite confident. This is one of my self goals to get me back there- not just for him to take note but for me and my child as I hadn't even realised I became this other woman! I'm about to get back to work, so I'm hoping that can only help me with my goals but also help him to see me as more than just the mother of his child too.
He does have low self esteem. His bragging was a turn off for me when I met him- the confidence I liked, the bragging- not so much. It was only when I got to know him did I see the low self esteem. His bragging was a bit of an act- a barrier in a sense. I can't quite understand why he is trying to act in front of me again though.
I'm going to work on the admiration part. Again, thanks for helping me out here.
I have read the detachment before but although I have struggled to grasp the concept- I have been implementing it. I'm part way through DR but baby isn't sleeping well right now so literally don't get a second to myself!

[Cherry]

So he hasn't come home again. Ignoring the need to text him. This seems like the norm for the weekend right now. And obviously if I start asking him where/what he's doing and that this isn't acceptable when we have a young baby this is gonna be seen as me nagging right?
So do I just roll with it for now? And when he returns just be polite, not overly happy but not all moody?
This is tough! Real tough!
Focusing on me and baby today. I think having no expectations is helping. I don't expect to hear from him, or see him. But at the same time- having no expectations also makes me feel I have no husband. I very much feel the single mom right now and this is real confusing.

[sandi2]

So he hasn't come home again. Ignoring the need to text him. This seems like the norm for the weekend right now. And obviously if I start asking him where/what he's doing and that this isn't acceptable when we have a young baby this is gonna be seen as me nagging right?

I call it guilting. And can you see how you used the baby for leverage? He already has jealousy toward the baby, so don't make matters worse by guilting him as a father.

You are not going to successfully whip him into being the H you think he should be. And you do not have to condone any of his inappropriate behavior. Sometimes the LBW thinks she must respond in a negative way so he will know it's not okay to do what he's doing. He is an adult, and you can't punish him and then expect his attitude to change. keep reminding yourself that you are not his mother.

So do I just roll with it for now? And when he returns just be polite, not overly happy but not all moody?

Pretty much, yes, for now. You are the only person in this M you get to control. Go about your life, working on yourself, and having no expectations from him.

This is not to say you show subservient behavior when he's home. Far from it. Be spunky, saucy, cheeky, a little sassy. Have a healthy balance of sugar &. spice.

[Cherry]

I've just been reading in DR about being the one person you control and changing my behaviours.
To an extent I have, but I've also sort of backed off being cheeky etc with him as part of my detaching (now I understand detaching a bit better I understand that it doesn't mean not being me).
Again when we got together we were both very suggestive, very playful, flirty, cheeky etc and I know this has got a bit lost. We have both said we find each other attractive- and we were even having sex still up until a few weeks ago, when he said he didn't want to use me just for that if he was thinking of divorcing me.
So I am setting little goals to get me back to me. He fell in love with me once, he'll he was obsessed with me. So I know that I need to get back to that- both for my sake and his.
He has said about wanting to have a good friendship with me, do you think that this is a way for me to sort of get in in a way. Like obviously that would involve spending time with me. And if I can implement the changes as well as my GAL activities, he should then begin to see I'm me again and maybe come back towards me?

I wish i could sit him down and tell him how much he does mean to me. I'm immensely proud of him, he is ridiculously handsome, and up until a few months ago he has treated me like a queen. I have a lot of passion for him which I can't act on right now. But I would give almost anything to start again- to date him, to have fun.

[Heart14]

Cherry, you are getting some excellent advice from Sandi. I'm so glad a vet chimed in.

I wish i could sit him down and tell him how much he does mean to me. I'm immensely proud of him, he is ridiculously handsome, and up until a few months ago he has treated me like a queen. I have a lot of passion for him which I can't act on right now. But I would give almost anything to start again- to date him, to have fun.

Some of this you can do without sitting him down for a talk. Most men want to run in the other direction when you ask them to talk anyway. If he's talking to you about something and it's appropriate to compliment him, you should. You don't need to go over the top. Just make it genuine.

Another thing you can do is tell H when he does something you appreciate. Thanks for putting the dishes away/mowing the lawn/ playing with the baby while I took a shower. It doesn't have to be a something big. MDW mentions in DR thanking her husband for watching the kids while she was on a business trip. It might seem silly to need to acknowledge that, but it can help make your H feel that you value him and his contributions. Usually what you focus on is what grows.

[Cherry]

Thanks heart, I'm really grateful for the advise. I guess thanking him for the little things might seem like not much to me but might to him. I have thanked him in the past and he's said "you don't need to thank me he's my son". But I'll continue to do so.
Is it okay to still make conversation by asking him about his job. About the time he started acting strange and distant is the same time he got a new job which is a lot more responsibility. For the first time in ages the other day he started telling me about his work.
I feel like with sandi2's advise and reading more of DR I am starting to get a plan in my mind. I'm setting myself goals and tasks and I keep reminding myself that I have no control over him. I can control me.
He came back like 24 hours after leaving last night. Which in a way I was at peace with. I can't control that, and wondering what he is doing is only going to upset me. So I carried on about my day. I started to make dinner and I got a message asking if there's anything to eat at home. I said I was cooking. I had it in my mind I won't wait for him- we eat the same time every night. So if he wasn't home then I would put it in the fridge.
He came home we ate together, have a bit of polite conversation. He seemed concerned that I was unwell. I said I would be fine. I'm not reading into the concern. Then he goes to his room and I go to mine. It does break my heart, and I hope this is not the way it's always going to be. I do long for him back because when he is himself he is an amazing sweet man. It is like this guy is my h's evil twin or something.
But at the end of the day, it is sinking in that I have no control whatsoever over anyone bar myself. So I've gotta become me again. And I miss being me, I was easy going and free spirited. I don't know where or how I became this insecure, shy dependant girl. I feel I have woken up from something!