Complex No. 6 - The turtle and the rabbit

[Complex]

I agree it's still too much about her. And I like how you put that into perspective about learning a lot simply about how to be a good husband, man and person.

The thing is even then W isn't ever coming back. The only way to her heart is to accept her who she is and to reach a deeper level of understanding and connection. But these things need to be worked on too, that's why I am still partially focused on her, to figure out if this is truly possible between us. I'm really trying all these things but they get blocked. Maybe my mistake lies in the fact that right now is NOT the time to "try". If I'm honest to myself: I'm tactical because I want her to at least subconciously feel that I truly love her and that I'm trying to get where she wants to be in a R. But my efforts make her more mad than anything else bc she has made up her mind.

This is where I am stuck. Plainly focusing on myself VS tactical behaviour trying to influence W's thinking.
I feel strong enough to let her completely go. Or maybe I should at least shift my focus way to my own side as a start. It feels counterintuitive to emotionally completely ditch her, but that's what DB is a lot.
I just really don't know how to balance these things out so that they are beneficial for me and my M...but maybe my fault lies in that sentence alone, because there is no M anymore and me is all I have right now.

[Starsky309]

I agree it's still too much about her. And I like how you put that into perspective about learning a lot simply about how to be a good husband, man and person.

The thing is even then W isn't ever coming back. The only way to her heart is to accept her who she is and to reach a deeper level of understanding and connection. But these things need to be worked on too, that's why I am still partially focused on her, to figure out if this is truly possible between us. I'm really trying all these things but they get blocked. Maybe my mistake lies in the fact that right now is NOT the time to "try". If I'm honest to myself: I'm tactical because I want her to at least subconciously feel that I truly love her and that I'm trying to get where she wants to be in a R. But my efforts make her more mad than anything else bc she has made up her mind.

This is where I am stuck. Plainly focusing on myself VS tactical behaviour trying to influence W's thinking.
I feel strong enough to let her completely go. Or maybe I should at least shift my focus way to my own side as a start. It feels counterintuitive to emotionally completely ditch her, but that's what DB is a lot.
I just really don't know how to balance these things out so that they are beneficial for me and my M...but maybe my fault lies in that sentence alone, because there is no M anymore and me is all I have right now.

You picked a perfect username.

[Complex]

I realized that quickly. Spot on.
It may seem complicated now tho. But when I look back in 10 years I probably think "what a sympatic fool I was"

I was invited for dinner for W dads birthday. Dad, grandma, brother, me, W. It was pleasant, almost like nothing ever happened. I was upbeat and we all had a hilarious long conversation about rodents lol. Then I was the first to leave to finish sth for work.
All good. No hard feelings after, no sadness. Feeling ok.

[alpha99]

Great that you had a nice evening Complex. You know to have no expectations but maybe it's these little things that start to make your S think about things again.

[Complex]

Pessimistic as I am I don't believe that BUT it for sure is showing her how good I am still with her family. Down the road it might help. For easter I'm invited again on the mothers side. Same game, I feel pretty good about it, confident enough to take on whatever is coming.
I'm very positive and hyped today. It's still a bit of a rollercoasters emotionally but my good days are very frequent. I feel the confidence I need.

For some reason I feel super confident about being able to save my marriage, or at least that I'm able to do all the right things so I can be in peace with myself no matter what happens. I feel like I get closer and closer to truly understand what it takes and to understand my W too. Of course I'll be cautious not building expectations. It's hard because that's how our brain is wired. But I'll never fall as deep as I once did, ever again.

One thing I really want to work on is communication. I know talking is no good, actions speak louder but communication is essential and it shows how I present myself and I just don't do well enough with it. And communication can mean more than words too. How I present myself in general is truly something I want to work on. How I feel and how I express myself through words or actions doesn't always fully match. I'm a thinker, a philosophist. I have great thoughts, have a very high emotional intelligence. But the tools for proper expression what's really going on in my head, is lacking talent
Are there any books or just general advices on this? Thanks.

[alpha99]

This week I got 'Connecting Through Yes' by Jack Ito. It is a very good book. It basically covers agreement (validation) as a means to build respect and then attraction through agreement. It covers divorce, infidelity, and a rang of other topics. Not quite the step by step in depth guide I thought it might be but it makes a lot of sense. If you search his name he has a site/blog with many good articles.

Also, people say 5 love languages is a good read. I don't have it myself though yet.

[Complex]

I have read that book. I liked it. Very helpful.

What Starsky said in your thread tho is very true: if you are in a place where you are not detached enough, not confident enough, still struggling with enotions..then you should NOT go ahead and "try to connect" with your WAW.
The mindset needs to be right.
Also remember the DR book. Pick your spots wisely. A) only do, if any, serious talk when W is receptive and open, not when she's tired after work etc etc and more important B) only when you feel like you are on your DB A-game!!


Hm my postings don't get a lot of recognition recently. I'm in a good place but I still make a lot of mistakes and need to keep working hard on myself,...for a long time.
Me and W are on the friendly side again. She's even texting me about stuff, like the plane crash in Germany we talked a lot about.
I'm still GAL a lot. Volunteer training next week, super excited. I'll go camping soon I decided, maybe just half an hour down the coast, camp, bbq and surf 1-2 days. My work is taking off, I'm busier than ever, have long work days, work out a lot, are good at school, have new friends I hang out with...etc.

I'm mainly working on finding the right strategy of DB in my current situation. Still so many open questions. Especially techniques how to present myself so W changes the picture of me she has right now. Ill traf Old Posts in my threads again and DR again to review some advices.

I just want a game plan. Maybe I'll sit on it tonight and draw a clear picture of where I want to be, what I'm doing and also how to technically deal with W in certain situations. So I know "ok this is the situation -> this is my position, this is what I do in this situation".

[Sotto]

Hi Complex

Sounds like you are doing great. And I was pleased to read about your progress - until the last two paras - all about W and needing a game plan...

I would forget all that. The more you seek a game plan, the more you stay attached, looking for the magic thing that will turn everything. No, I think you just need to keep the forward momentum with all the other stuff and maintain pleasant busy upbeat (not OTT) and so on with your W. I would stop looking for anything else. Remember actions not words, and your volunteering, busy at work, working out, school success and new friends are what will do the 'talking' to your W.

Less talk....keep the forward momentum on the action I say....Good for you :-)

[Complex]

Thanks toots.
I know the last part was not good, because it's still circling. I just want to truly "get" and understand my W. That's the only base of a new R with her that would make thibgs possible at all. That's why I want to do sth in regards to get to know her love language better and how she really is.
Maybe this effort will be for nothing, I don't know. I just think it is essential, but is it more of a topic when already piecing?

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks toots.
I know the last part was not good, because it's still circling. I just want to truly "get" and understand my W. That's the only base of a new R with her that would make thibgs possible at all. That's why I want to do sth in regards to get to know her love language better and how she really is.

Complex, you want a "game plan", correct? That means you need a GOAL, and a plan to achieve that goal. But the goal cannot be to reconcile with your wife.

Sounds sad and harsh, I know. But this^^ is ALL about you wanting something you cannot necessarily ever have. For now, I think you must forget her.

The goal FOR NOW must be exclusively about your own growth as a man. Becoming the best man you can become. DEFINE that in specific terms you understand.

Get some "mantras" or inspiring quotes for yourself, and SAY them out loud to yourself several times a day.

Turn your marriage over to God, to free yourself to just work on YOU.

Behave in healthy confident ways and eventually, you will FEEL healthier and more confident. In TIME, your life will improve.

The improved life you create for yourself must and will be enough for you.

What your wife does or believed about the new wonderful you, is far beyond your control.
Any efforts on your end to affect that, are for nothing. They are wasted energy.

That energy (the energy spent on worrying about her OR in trying to convince her of anything about you) is a waste of energy. Spend ALL of your energy on becoming the best man you can become. The reality of who you become, will suffice. It MUST suffice. If she believes you are a purple lesbian from Mars, you may not be able to change that belief but you cannot let it change the reality that you are a man with great qualities.
Her beliefs will NOT be based on reality, her "data" about you will be false.

That fact, that you become a better man and great husband (for someone) has to be enough for you. Because it is real. If you keep in touch with her family or other mutual friends, word will get back to her.

THAT^^ is all you ought to "do", b/c it happens to align with your goal of becoming the best man you can become. NOT to win her back but b/c you want to self actualize.

Is this^^ too fuzzy or too vague?

Maybe this effort will be for nothing, I don't know. I just think it is essential, but is it more of a topic when already piecing?

The effort to understand her now, and to "get" her and to make her understand (anything) that you love her, is ALL for nothing. Worse, it's actually counter productive.

It means your energy is "outward bound" instead of being about YOUR own growth and YOUR Changes. You'll keep checking in with her to "See if she knows that I feel X" and you'll keep on checking her temperature to see if "she knows Y and Z" and your energy will continue to hone in only on HER reactions to your behavior.

That is no way to live and it sure won't re-attract her to you. If it worked, it would have by now.

Go inward for the changes you need to make, and outward to GAL.


Get her off your radar screen...for now and the foreseeable future.

Turn the marriage over to God, & simply completely take charge of your own life.

When you become the best man you truly can be, and you know it,

then you can turn ALL of this over to God, let the cards fall where they will,

and be at peace.

From this day forward, Hold your head high and live your life well.

How does that^^sound as your game plan?