For the Newcomer LBH who has a wayward wife Part 2

[sandi2]

Zeus, I don't think I answered your question about me seeming to struggle with what I knew was right and what what I was feeling. This is absolutely true! But during the first part, when the fog was at it's worst, most of what I knew was right took a back seat to what I wanted to feel. And of course, like all WW's, I would try to justify my reasons.

I had been the "good" girl growing up. I had been the respecful daughter and the proper Christian W. But then I ventured into this new realm, at least for me it was new. I had never gone through that part of growing up where I sowed wild seeds, like some people may experience. I am not saying it is a necessary part of transitioning into adulthood, I'm just saying that I lived the way I was expected.......and according to my religious beliefs. The one thing I protected and clung to was my clean reputation and respect of others in the Chrisian community. Sounds pretty ironic, doesn't it? I think that is why losing that place in the eyes of my adult children was what it took to finally shake me to the core and lift that bit of fog.

I had continued to attend church during the entire span of my wayward actions. Undoubtly the spiritual was conflicted with the physical. But even taking the religious or spiritual part away from all of this, anyone who believes in a strict moral code in daily living surely feels conflicted when they violate that code. Maybe not as deeply as when it is a spiritual/religious matter......IDK. You might compare it to how one views their wedding vows. Like Starsky talks about core values, and how we base decisions on those values. Do we act based only on what we know to be "right"? If so, then any emotions that run contrary must not be allowed to rule our decisions. Sounds all rather cold and technically, doesn't it? But it was how I was taught to deal with temptations that could ruin a person's life. Up until 2006, it worked well for me.......at least in controlling my outward behavior. For many, many years my heart was turning wayward. I allowed my feelings to get behind the steering wheel.

Humans are emotional creatures, especially when we react to pain. I have watched people who have had to live in constant, agonizing pain. It can do terrible things to change that person. But this is getting a little away from answering your question.

you seemed to understand it was a fog or an addiction.

You know, even my H told me it was an addiction, but I did not want to hear anything from him. Partly b/c I wanted to believe the fantasy, which I managed to do for quite a while. It was when I came to the board and it was explained about the PEA, etc., that I began seeing it for what it really was.

I did recognize I needed guidance. I knew I was on the edge of making a life-changing decision, and basically that was my reason for reaching out. I had considered talking to someone in person, but I wasn't ready for my "secret" to get out, and living in a small town where we know almost everyone....i was still trying to shield my reputation Until I began getting this information, I was just as confused about my feelings, and being just as selfish as any other WW. Plus, I quickly learned that accepting the information as truth was the easy part. My willingness to do what needed to be done, was altogether a different matter. It had a battle with my rebellious heart, let me tell ya!

[sandi2]

Thanks Cadet, you are so right.

[Joe46]

Sandi, I have brought this addiction up to my wife on several occasions in the past before I came here and learned that I was wasting my time trying to talk to her. I even sat down very nice and told her that I can understand how taking those calls can feed her ego and make her feel good. Of course, I got the " that has nothing to do with it and I don't feel anything from those calls". I have heard several different reasons for her to justify why she still took the calls. The story changed each time. We also live in a small town where everyone knows everybody else. I hear the comments, your W never goes out anymore. Never comes to the games. We hardly see her anymore. She hears it also. Her justification for what she is doing is "she is providing for her children". Sorry I pay all the bills. She was buying groceries. Even that has slowed down now. She buys just enough for a few meals. She pays for the phone/internet and her cell phone.

[sandi2]

I would like to address something that could possibly be unclear for some newcomers who have a WW. Even though I can't always explain the complexity of a woman......much less a WW, I think it helps, maybe, for the LBH to understand the reasoning behind a couple of avice tips we give on the board.

One tip is telling the LBH that he should not leave the master bedroom, and if she has a problem with it.....she should be the one to move out of the bedroom, and also the marital home. Personally, I believe there can exceptions to the house, but I'll, get to it momentarily.

The H needs to remember he is not dealing with the woman he has known as his lifelong partner. He is dealing with her wayward mindset. Although he may be limited, he can at least try to enforce a few things in the name of "respect". She no longer respects him as a man, as her H, as the father of her children........not to mention the leader, provider, protector, and I personally believe as head of the home. Not saying that any of those roles give him rights to mistreat or abuse it any way.

The WW will constantly test the H with her disrespect. She actually expects him to be the one to leave the BR, b/c after all, he's the rugged man, who can sleep the ground and allow her feminine lsoft body the luxuries of their comfy bed. Isn't that what's a gentleman should do? Let me say this nicely. He is a sucker if he falls for that one! His decision should not be based on the fact she is the woman and that is what men are suppose to do.....take the harder and give her the nicer. Instead, he should think of the stronger message he will be giving her if he sticks his tail between his legs and says, "Yes dear, anything you say, dear" and takes his pillow to find a spot to lay down.

To me, the MBR is symbolic of their private union. That is the place they share their most intimate part of their M. Now she has brought another person into the M and she is saying she doesn't feel comfortable with you in the BR? She is the one who has defiled it. She broke her vows of "to thee and thee only" and wants to kick you out? Granted, some women have a softer approach, but I promise it all comes from the same source.....disrespect. She crowns herself with entitlement. Furthermore, if allowed, she will completely turn everything around to make herself appear justified, while making you appear to be the one responsible for this mess anyway.

If there are children in the home, it is even more important that the man establishes his "authority" (go easy on this word) and place of respect in the M, the family, and the home. This may goes against the grain for some folks who read this, and I hope my lack of word skills will not be taken to exceed the meaning I want you to see. If the man succumbs to his W's outward show of disrespect, he opens the floodgates for more serious problems. For him to measly accept her terms, in the name of keeping the peace.......or thinking he's preventing worse scenarios, is really giving out a strong message that it is fine to wipe manure on him b/c he has little value in the M, the family, and/or the home. He is stripped from his rank as leader and is demoted to a much lesser position, comparable in some cases to that of a servant. If you think I'm stretching it, then you have been around here long enough.

Maybe you think I am overdoing this a bit, but not really b/c the lack of her respect and the H's failure to get her respect, will ultimately leave the MR in ruins. This is true even when there is no issue of affairs, etc. Even if they stay together. If young men could just realize how the MR balances on respect. She has to have it in order to love him.

Remaining in the MBR is symbolic to comanding outward respect. (If this had been a guy writing, he could have summed the whole thing up in that one sentence.)

The same principle applys to who moves out of the home. Only, it gets more technical, I think. Back in my father's generation, it was mostly the man. That's just what men did......and maybe b/c the men were more likely to cheat, according to what we've read. Today, we live in a different society and just by looking at the majority of the threads that come and go here, the tables have dramatically turned. At least that's the way it appears to me. Ugh, I could get out on a whole other topic.

Anyway, as I told 3kids on his thread today, there are no die-hard BD rules about some of these actions. He wondered if he should help move out his WW's things left behind in the marital home that has been recently sold. They have been physically separated for a while now, with her living in a different house. His objective is to clear the house before new owners take procession. He asked what to do about helping her move these things b/c of the advice not to help the WW move out.

Each person has to look at the rationale and decide the best option to take. There will usually be something to crop up eventually in the stitch that could get the LBH completely off track. For example, the issue of who leaves the marital home. What is the right thing for the man to do and what is best for his children at that time? Does the house belong to him? If it is in her name only, or her family, it limits what he can do. What are the legal and/or the financial consequences of him moving out, etc. I sure don't have all the answers. I don't have the legal knowledge nor the personal experience in those areas. I just encourage everyone who may be faced with this matter of who leaves the home, to get legal advice before acting out of emotions......or advice from on the board.

These two tips that are often passed around may need the explanation that it is never meant to be vindictive. In fact, none of the advice should have vindictive purposes.

Sorry, I have rambled on and on.......once again.

[Wonka]

Sandi,

I am not a guy, but I can shoot with the best of 'em!

Remaining in the MBR is symbolic to comanding outward respect. (If this had been a guy writing, he could have summed the whole thing up in that one sentence.)

Here is a short sentence for you to chew on LBHs....

Frankly, I don't give a damn!


Rhett really threw out Scarlet a few times...and look how she went back to him?! Because he didn't take chit from her.

Capisce?

[sandi2]

Sandi,

I am not a guy, but I can shoot with the best of 'em!

I bet you can, too!

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Remaining in the MBR is symbolic to comanding outward respect. (If this had been a guy writing, he could have summed the whole thing up in that one sentence.)

Here is a short sentence for you to chew on LBHs....

Frankly, I don't give a damn!

Rhett really threw out Scarlet a few times...and look how she went back to him?! Because he didn't take chit from her.

Capisce?

Love it! There for a while I was referencing to Rhett Butler quite often. He is still one of my favorite characters.

[RAI]

Sandi, an excellent post - as usual.

I am still in marital BR with my WW (separate beds). I think I missed an opportunity after BD#2 in July: My W went to sleep on the sofa and I actually told her not too, because she always plays the martyr and I did not want her to do so again, and make me look like the villain to our children in the process. This was obviously before I found this site and began DB. Had I known, I probably would have encouraged her to remain out of our BR.

I know she is still seeing the OM and I know they were in our house together when I went away with the kids (I had her followed a few months ago), but I feel like the time to ask her to move out of marital BR has passed. I have been counseled by others(Ahoy, I think) in my previous thread to set a boundary and ask W to move out of BR. I have demurred because 1) I still don't want to be the villain; 2) I will miss out on the children: they often come to her bed in the middle of the night, but they spill into mine; 3) I worry that I am only doing it to be vindictive - which, as you mentioned, is never a good reason; and 4) I wonder whether could she use this action against me in mediation/divorce proceedings.

I have been focusing on detaching and I no longer confront her about her wayward behavior. So right now she has no boundaries that I can think of, and probably has no reason to respect me. I do not think I am doing a very good job of shocking her out of the fog.

Can you weigh in on whether I should still try to have her move out of the bedroom? Of course, there may be other mitigating factors that are specific to my sitch, but is there a specific time after which it is too late to set such a boundary? Is it still worth it? Is there any chance it would improve my sitch.

RAI

[Mozza]

I'm not sure if it's the right forum, but I have a longstanding question about a tenet of DR.

It's about "script".

I often read on here that a WAS is following a "script". I understand what it means: almost all WAS follow similar steps and say similar things. I agree.

What I don't understand is why it diminishes those WAS words in any way. The word "script" is often used to reassure the LBS, as if these words are not really heartfelt by the WAS. The WAS are living a fairly widespread experience and humans tend to live them in similar fashion. We all follow a "script" when we stress out about college admissions, fall in love with our future spouse, have a baby, visit Paris, etc. It does not make the experience any less real. In fact, I would venture to say (and I've actually seen this idea somewhere here) that the LBS also follow their own script. There is the begging, crying and pleading of the beginning, then there is the anger, the acceptance, etc. Can the WAS look at us and say "Oh, it's all script anyway" as if they can dismiss it?

So when we say the WAS follows a "script", what is that supposed to mean to the LBS?

[MrBond]

"So when we say the WAS follows a "script", what is that supposed to mean to the LBS?"

It's not supposed to "mean" anything. It's to explain the "sudden" change in mood and attitude that the WAS goes through. There's no other way to explain the irrational way that they are acting.

We've all heard versions of the "script". The key is to be able to determine which parts are BS and which parts are the REAL reason why the WAS left in the first place. Many times they don't even know themselves.

[sandi2]

RAI, it is not a requirement to have separate bedrooms. I was referring to the reason we tell men not to be the one who leaves the MBR if his WW doesn't want to share a room and tries to get him to be the one to leave. I wanted to point out the purpose behind the man staying in the MBR.

Many WW's want the H to leave the BR, but some never say anything about it. It is strictly his decision if he insists she leaves the BR. I am not saying he should or shouldn't without knowing the specifics in the stitch.

Let me point out that none of this is to use as a shock technique. Men need to let that go.

RAI, It sounds as if you need to find confidence in yourself and in the purposes of the action taken. If she has absolutely no boundaries to honor, no consequences due to her behavior........and you fear taking any action will cause you to look bad, then I would guess you have demoted yourself and have accepted a passive, powerless position in your M and in your family.

I understand you don't want the children to see you as some villain. Right now, they are watching......and learning......and will use what they learn to apply in their own M some day. Isn't it more important to be the parent-teacher that demonstrates how a man carries himself during a like situation?

How will you deal with your children if, in the near future, they rebel against everything you thought had been instilled, and they defy you at every turn? A WW is very much like a rebellious, resentful, and disrespectful teenager.

What is your role? Are you the leader, or a passive buddy who doesn't want to rock the boat?