Quote: If you can clearly see that LDW simply wants to "service" you and isn't "into" it themselves? Do you let them?
That's CeMar's subject. I don't know exactly what his answer will be, but he's right on target with the, "it's not just the ACT, it's the DESIRE." At this point, I'd settle for a few times of the act...the desire, hopefully, would follow.
BTW...I have a great vocabulary, dress monochromatically (but sometimes wear cool, fun ties), have no interest in molecular plasmatics (or whatever), and have no hobbies to speak of.
I have to jump in here. I've been following your thread and can't help but feel hopeless. This is depressing. I find myself wondering if my H feels as you do and it makes me cringe.
This one really pisses me off. I will work at foreplay on the wife for about an hour, to gradually awaken her body to the idea of sex. I will rub her everywhere, then use my mouth on every part of her body. I will finally give her a mind blowing orgasam. Then her response is to roll over onto her back, spread her legs, and say, "OK, Let's take care of you". Talk about only SERVICING me, it makes me feel so UNDESIRED. It's like I am a CHORE. And this after she was given GREAT foreplay. And of course, the only thing I get is straight sex. No foreplay, no variation, just straight sex. As little effort as possible is given by the LD.
LD's never seem to get it, it's not the sex that is the problem, it's their DESIRE that is the problem.
Geez...There's a couple questions out there I need to think about....
1. What am I angry about? Good point...you are right. W is working on it and I should simply chill. I think I'm extremely angry at (mostly) myself and W for letting things get this bad. W has made the rule that these issues are off-limits and not up for discussion...we have to be forward thinking. I have to give her credit for this. However, she seems completely incapably at self-examination and accepting her flaws as something to work on. She seems to consider herself an expert on everything she engages in so in her mind, there's no need to read or understand other points of view. She guides herself through "feeling" which hasn't worked for us in the past. Her lack of "approach" is what drives me nuts and I'm not going to help her with this other than telling her about how I approach my issues...I assume that I don't know anything even though I think I do. She doesn't humble herself to herself. It's weird and frustrating.
Also, she might, on a very deep level not be happy either despite her assurances. Maybe her constant reminding me the she "loves her life with me" over the past years is self-talk to convince herself that she does when she really doesn't. So, a lot of my anger might be from the fact that I'm detecting something deeper that she isn't even aware of. Of course, if I push, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I'm constantly looking at areas where I can improve myself and looking at reasonable approaches. Anger was something that I never realized I had a problem with until I started journaling here. But why do I have anger? This will be something for me to explore. Last time I was in the bookstore, I thumbed an anger management book just for the fun of it; not thinking it applied to me. But I took a quiz and it showed that I'm a candidate for professional help. What's odd is that if you asked anyone about me they would say that I'm the most happy-go-lucky person they have ever met because I also go overboard trying to make people around me feel comfortable. There's a relationship between these and I'm not sure what they are. Overcompensating for anger? Even my 6'2" height has something to do with this...a reverse of little-man syndrome.
2. Do I want W to fail? Great question. Ideally, I want her to succeed and I want my M to succeed. When I say some of these things here, I'm simply unleashing this anger and frustration with her. She has yet to prove that she can create real change. It's early and I should give her time. I'm much faster at changing myself because I gather information, reexamine everything I think and try to see the world from a new perspective. I try to flip my world upside down. She just keeps doing what she's always done. Do I want her to fail? No. Do I expect her to? Hmmm....right now I do because her behavior shows very little motivation. BUT, she IS doing something...therefore, I need to just give her time to get it goin'.
You know, W likes to "pretend" alot. I'm starting to learn that about her. This morning, she was really sweet to me and even gave me a good, good-morning kiss with a grope. She mentioned something about making shure I didn't leave home without a little lovin'. So, if I can just forget about how she was (truly) feeling last night, play along, then everything would look fine. She is no more guilty for hiding her feelings last night as I was the night before when I was angry. I think right now, it might be just a good idea to "play along" with the "acting" that we are both doing. The "act" is "right" despite the underlying feelings and thoughts...it's probably good pattern to repeat of this until it becomes more "reality". It might be way more damaging to remind her (and myself) that there are underlying problems. In her world, she can only mentally handle a "slight course corrections", not a complete 180.
Wow, this journal is helping me. These insights just surfaced. If any of you saw the Matrix, there was a point where the main character chooses to take a "red pill" which will enlighten him to the "real" reality of his existence. If he takes the blue pill, he will go on with his current life which is in reality, a "dream" type of manifestation in his mind but a much better reality than the true reality...am I making sense to those who haven't seen this?
I wouldn't despair too much. What I say here are typically "fleeting" thoughts that I want to read with my own eyes to see if they are right or wrong. Plus, I get your feedback to. I think I lost Corri along the way...I bet she's given up on me because of this BS. This is truly a journal...a place to record and contemplate thoughts. When I wrote those things, I knew they were wrong as I wrote them. I used to play golf and studied everything I could learn about holding a club, the swing, the stance etc. I could quote the perfect "lesson" on a golf swing but the ball would still slice and hook. So one day at the driving range, I did something seemingly insane...I purposely changed my stance, grip and swing and watch the dramatic affects of these changes. I essentially learned what to do by learning what NOT to do. So here I am. I'm taking some swings that are inside-out, standing way too close, then way too far, and from the chaos is arising a pure set of answers. Does this make sense at all? It's the way I learn everything (unfortunately).
So don't worry about your H or be bummed...these thoughts, on a "conviction" scale of 1-10, rank about a 2. Things like chilling out, having patience and continuing to be the best H I can be are 10s.
Quote hairdog: This one really pisses me off. ...I will finally give her a mind blowing orgasam. Then her response is to roll over onto her back, spread her legs, and say, "OK, Let's take care of you".
hd, This is exactly the routine that my ML has taken for the last 24 years. The routine started I think, the second time I went down on her. She said (while very turned on) "Don't stop, don't ever stop". Those words made a big impression on me because I felt that I was showing her all the love I possibly could and I really enjoyed it as I do to this day however... once a man has had his orgasm his interest in further sex plummets. Now I don't know if the same is true for women but I suspect that it is. After my W has seen stars she allows me my turn but she just lies there waiting for it to finish (sometimes with her hands covering her face). The first ML as the post SSM "new me" I decided to break the 24 year routine and warm her up by about a third then surprise her by getting stuck in then finish her after me. Well I have to say it was a big success. She even touched my arms during my turn and there was no problem finishing her turn. It was the best we had had for years. The second time it didn't work quite as well because Woody didn't want to put his bathing cap on (it was inside out) and in all the fiddling around he decided to go soft on me. He did his best but after a while it was obvious that his mind was elsewhere and we moved on to phase three but W stopped me after a while and we had to record it as a no-score draw. Hopefully next time will be OK. But hd, the point of this story is that if you let her come first then surely her interest in your pleasure will be reduced to "Hurry up so I can go to sleep".
once a man has had his orgasm his interest in further sex plummets. Now I don't know if the same is true for women but I suspect that it is.
Obviously, I can't speak for all women but I will give you my experience on the matter. My H always goes the same route too...I get my orgasm first through oral or manual, then we go to the actual "act".
Well, by that time, I am usually exhausted (orgasms make me want to go to sleep!) and half the time, dried up. Neither make for the world's best nookie, if you know what I mean. There have been times when I have tried to get H to stop before I have my orgasm so that I can channel that energy into mind-blowing nookie for him, but he is so intent on my orgasm that he doesn't want to stop.
This is great information to hear because you are describing a pattern that I was falling into. Oral on her until she gets the big O. However, I usually mix it up oral-insertion-oral-insertion, then I usually find out when shes about to O and then I get back in and will assist her manually or she will assist herself.
The problem with the other night was that she didn't even give me a chance to go down on her and "share" the moment. She aggressively threw me on my back, gave me some deep kisses but she wasn't "in the moment" because her eyes were elsewhere. Got me going a little then tried to initiate the act but she (no surprise) wasn't ready. I told her that if she really was simply trying to add variety or a different style, that she needs to let me know before we start.
This gets back to "sex education". Communicating about what each other wants and how they want it. I really want variety where occasionally she simply Fs me, vice versa, and then maybe throw a different psychology into it...like "sweet and tender talk" vs. "raunchy, naughty". We have a "standard" mode which is good and nice with a mix of traditional, with oral, various positions etc. But if my mind was ready for "standard" or "sweet", I would have a hard time adjusting midstream....I definitely wish we could plan it a little more in advance. The Laura Corn books are based soley on the principle that variety+anticipation=great sex. I'm trying to figure out a way to get W on board with this.
W and I talked about helping each other stay motivated on other goals like dieting etc. and we came up with the idea of keeping a hat that says "coach" on it to wear when we are pushing so that it's clear that we are playing a role. Ok, this is not related to anything to do with our S life, but I do think there could be a colored candle system or something to set expectations in the bedroom. Just some ideas.
