Masterpiece still in progress...

[Jer2911]

Okay -- just having a moment that I'm obviously going to have to bring up in my next IC session... need to just write it out here in case any of you have had similar experience/issue and have any good advice...

I was over on the The Hearts Blessing blog reading through a ton of articles. I got to the article about emotional triggers -- which I initially thought might be about triggers from the MLC or the A/OW... But as I read it my mind started drifting strongly to one of the biggest communication issues between my W and I.

Here is the issue...

My W complains that she doesn't know how to talk to me about issues or things that upset her because when she has done so in the past I would start crying, and when she's tried to get me to explain why I'm crying I often told her that I felt like she was criticizing me. I do realize that she wasn't really criticizing me -- just trying to tell me what she needed from me. So I started thinking about that a lot more and have just realized that of course I always started crying because there was an emotional trigger going on within me... And now -- just tonight -- I seem to have some sort of clarity around this that I've NEVER had before and I think it has to do with something related to my dad and my relationship with him.

Background -- my parents are divorced and because of some of the aspects of their relationship over the years, my dad and I grew distant in my teens and didn't really begin to bridge that gap until within the past 10 years (once my W and I had kids). My dad is an adult child of an alcoholic and is completely out of touch with his emotional side because of this. My mom and I also realize now that he is probably a lifelong MLCer. So he and I can talk about practical things and the weather, but there is no real talk about emotional topics with my dad.

And now I've just got a very strong sense that the emotional trigger is tied somehow to my dad... But I can't quite figure out the specifics about that right at this moment tonight... I can only just say that tonight I am seeing/sensing the connection in my head finally.

So -- obviously I probably need to bring this up with my C next week in my IC session... not sure what else I need to do to figure this out other than just journal it and let the idea marinate for a bit.

Thoughts?

[Jer2911]

Following up on last post with more thoughts...

Obviously, because my dad isn't in touch emotionally, trying to talk to him about this as a way to explore it in more depth is not really an option...

Maybe I can talk to my mom about it... Maybe she has some insight into this that can help me -- she has been on the front row watching my relationship with my dad for my entire life and her perspective will obviously be different from mine -- perhaps more objective than mine...

I think, because my dad left my mom and I was the oldest child, I've always desperately wanted his approval -- to know that he approved of ME... who I am... what I do... my abilities, knowledge, personality, etc... I don't immediately recall him ever criticizing me, but I also don't ever remember him being overly generous with statements of approval (can't recall many "Great job!" "So proud of you!" types of comments) so maybe it's more of an absence of those kinds of comments that led me to a sense or feeling of being criticized by him? Combined with possible issues around thinking he left because of me... I was 5 when they divorced -- prime age for thinking it was all about me...

Just more thoughts on this... could be totally off on this, but getting a very strong feeling that I'm digging into something really critical here for my own growth and progress...

And at least I'm really focusing on myself now and not my W :-)

[Mighty]

Hey Jer! Hmm... interesting when something strikes a chord, huh? That's some good diggin! I know when I do some digging... sometimes it is really hard. I cringe a lot. But, facing this stuff head on is great! I would think it is a great idea to bring up in ic. Hey, you never know what you will get! Maybe just talking bout it will bring a sense of peace. Or, it will guide you to dig a little further.

My parents divorced, but... my sitch was a little different. My mom was a child of an alcoholic. My dad wasn't, but dealt with some serious "issues" from his dad (whom I loved dearly and didn't know about this "issues" until I was older.... they lived in the south), but his dad was in WWII and gone for 5 years facing serious stuff. Anyway, my dad became an alcoholic and I think it progressed around the same age as you were when your dad left.

My parents separated, got back together, divorced for 10 years and are now remarried. I REALLY wonder if my dad dealt with MLC. ANyway... not totally sure why I am hijacking to share... but... I understand. Things were different in my r with my dad. I kind of just wrote him off. But I know he tried in his own way the best he could. But I did talk to an IC about it a few years ago. He told me that if the r is fixed in adulthood and good, that we have the ability to just let it go.

I do have a great r with my dad now. We get along very well. I know he would do anything in the world for me. But I can also tell you that we do not get that personal or emotional at all. He is spiritual (as his independent recovery- he did alone!), but that is it. He loved my husband as a son. He would even tell him he loved him and didn't say that to my brothers. He has not spoken a word to me about my xh. He just can't go there. So he's not in MLC, if he ever were.. but that part just isn't addressed.

I dont' think this really helped you... I'm realizing... but, I guess to sum it up.. you are digging and heading in a good direction. Facing things that are and can be difficult to face. And when we look at it at face value- how it affects our lives today, it can be shocking, embarrassing, and.... a little shameful. At least for me. BUT! That is the amazing part.. to see it, acknowledge the impact and learn from it. Use it to make us grow.

OK, Jer... I think I have embarrassed myself enough here. Keep going. Keep doing the work, and YES! discuss it with your ic. It is a great opportunity for growth.

You are doing amazingly well. Good for you! Keep it up.

[Jer2911]

My parents divorced, but... my sitch was a little different....

My parents separated, got back together, divorced for 10 years and are now remarried.

OMG - Mighty! My parents divorced when I was 5... Dad remarried someone else and mom was with someone else for quite a few years THEN dad got divorced from 2nd W and mom and boyfriend split up AND THEN my mom and dad remarried each other (7 years in-between divorce and remarriage instead of 10 in your case) then got divorced again about 9 years later but now live right next door to each other... So you and I do have more in common!

OK, Jer... I think I have embarrassed myself enough here. Keep going. Keep doing the work, and YES! discuss it with your ic. It is a great opportunity for growth.

You are doing amazingly well. Good for you! Keep it up.

Thanks!

Actually just got off the phone with my mom and she confirmed a lot of what I was thinking... and remembered more incidents that I didn't remember that confirm my thoughts on this... She also thinks I'm on the right track with this and said the same thing you did -- bring it up with my C at my next session and see where it goes.

Had a great chat with my mom about my dad, their marriage, her boyfriend who I did think of as a stepdad even though they never got married, and my relationship with my dad. Fortunately my mom and I have always had a great relationship so the only parental issues I have are related to my dad -- but she did acknowledge the need to have a talk at some point in the future about her relationship with my "stepdad" because she said she knows I had issues when they broke up and she wants me to have a better understanding of what happened with all of that. I told her we could do that, but assured her that I've gotten over any anger or bitterness about their breakup and I don't blame her for any of it -- that as an adult now with a few relationships under my belt I've got a much better perspective on it.

Feeling pretty good right now...

Another update related to me and my process -- continuing to feel much stronger faith that God really is working on this entire situation. I can feel God working in me every day and I am starting to see how God is beginning to place some signs and possible obstacles in my W's line of sight... If only she would wake up enough to see these messages... I can't do that for her though, so I'll leave it to God to continue to place those signs, messages, and obstacles out there as He sees fit in order to continue to try to guide my W towards the path He has for her. It just helps me feel stronger in my faith to feel God working within me and to see these signs & messages that I do believe are designed to eventually guide my W in the right direction for her process through her MLC.

I just know that God is working on this and I just need to get out of His way so He can work... I just need to continue to work on me and follow the path He has for me during this very difficult journey. :-)

[beatrice]

Hi you guys. First off - I think these two stories are interesting in many many ways, and Jer, think you definitely need to discuss all of this with your IC.

Many of us who marry MLCers have got emotional damage which in some way is 'attractive' to the MLCer. I had a very happy childhood (unlke my xh) but a devastating tragedy in my teens which I didn't begin to deal with for many years. In fact I stuffed in down the back of the emotional sofa, and was encouraged to do so by all around me as a sign that I was OK. Their feelings mattered more to me than my own. Weird?? It seemed normal at the time!

So I was damaged goods when I met my xh. I think that if the tragedy had not occurred I wouldn't have married my xh - I would have seen his damage. As it was, we 'dysfunctioned' beautifully together for a long time. Not saying it was all dysfunctional, much of it was good and fine and amazing, but there was something there, I now see, that wasn't OK, that was a weakness in the foundation.

I am relating my own experience because it took me a long long time to realise that our spouses' MLC in our lives in not a coincidental or random happening. We did nothing to trigger it, and probably by our kindness and stability we held them together for a long time, but, and it is a big but, we were not OK ourselves.

Isn't it interesting that you two post such similar stories?

[Jer2911]

Hi you guys. First off - I think these two stories are interesting in many many ways, and Jer, think you definitely need to discuss all of this with your IC.

Many of us who marry MLCers have got emotional damage which in some way is 'attractive' to the MLCer. I had a very happy childhood (unlke my xh) but a devastating tragedy in my teens which I didn't begin to deal with for many years. In fact I stuffed in down the back of the emotional sofa, and was encouraged to do so by all around me as a sign that I was OK. Their feelings mattered more to me than my own. Weird?? It seemed normal at the time!

So I was damaged goods when I met my xh. I think that if the tragedy had not occurred I wouldn't have married my xh - I would have seen his damage. As it was, we 'dysfunctioned' beautifully together for a long time. Not saying it was all dysfunctional, much of it was good and fine and amazing, but there was something there, I now see, that wasn't OK, that was a weakness in the foundation.

I am relating my own experience because it took me a long long time to realise that our spouses' MLC in our lives in not a coincidental or random happening. We did nothing to trigger it, and probably by our kindness and stability we held them together for a long time, but, and it is a big but, we were not OK ourselves.

Isn't it interesting that you two post such similar stories?

One of the books that I started reading after BD was Getting the Love That You Want and the main point of the book is that our choice of mate/partner/spouse is never an accident -- we are always subconsciously drawn to people who can help us work through our old/childhood issues. Fascinating concept and very interesting book... Definitely along the lines of what you wrote above. The key is being aware of this so that we can allow for that healing to happen -- but too often, instead of allowing the healing to happen, we interpret the "issues" in our marriage/relationship as a sign that we are not meant to be together when that is not the case at all. So the MLCer definitely tries to do this running away -- and the LBS, if they don't do what most of us here have done, will run away as well, end the marriage, and both will just repeat the pattern again and again.

I can definitely look back over my past relationships and see how I selected people at the time who were ideal or close to ideal to help me work through my childhood.adolescent issues... And in some cases this did happen -- but it happened without me being consciously aware of it or consciously aware of the fact that I chose that particular person at that particular time for that particular purpose... If that makes any sense at all.

I am now much more aware of all of this and am in the beginning stages of understanding how/why my subconscious was drawn to my W.

And yes -- so very interesting that Mighty and I have some similarities in our family backgrounds!

I have to wonder if what I saw in my parents relationship is what gives me hope that my W will eventually wake up and turn back to me.

New topic -- S7 had flag football game this morning... and he scored 3 TDs including the game-ending winning TD! Yay!

Gave W play-by-play via TM and it was a fun TM exchange between the two of us. We have a great TM relationship... too bad that can't transfer over into F2F like it did pre-BD. Maybe the TM can help with seed planting for the future... For now it just is what it is -- light friendly banter between the two of us that is such a nice break from monster, spewing, and the coldness that creeps in when she starts spinning.

[Jer2911]

Last night there was an important family event (on W's side) that I was un-invited to by W. This morning I've received a few messages from HER family members letting me know that my presence was sorely missed by the family and by the friends of the family last night, and that I was on their minds and in their hearts this weekend.

At least one family member made it very clear that many people discussed my absence and expressed sadness over it.

And one of the people who reached out to me today was one of the two family members who were the "stars" of the event last night (it was for the two of them). It says quite a bit that he took the time this morning to reach out to me to let me know that I was missed and loved -- especially since I know it was a very late night for everyone and I am sure that most family members went to a late brunch together this morning.

All of the messages I've received today mean a lot to me. But I also think the messages are a clear sign from God or the universe (whichever you prefer - I prefer to think of it as God) about this whole entire situation... it says quite a bit that her family members are reaching out to me today and that I was on their minds last night and continued to be on their minds enough this morning that they felt the need to reach out to me.

I received the last message right after spending a few moments in prayer asking God to continue showing me the way and to help me correct course if I am not supposed to stand (with loving detachment) for our marriage. And the last message was from a family member that I don't really communicate with very much, and who is also a minister. At this point though, the question is: Am I supposed to interpret those messages as a "yes, keep standing, but detach, let go and let God work, be still and know, etc." or am I supposed to interpret them as "let go and move on -- things may end with W, but these people will always be in your life because the love and bond between all you will always exist."...

Maybe I'm just over-analyzing all of this...

[Jer2911]

Royally messed up... Long story -- confided in a member of W's family and this family member told other family members which caused some problems for W this weekend. She confronted me about it today -- caught me by surprise (which she is good at) and I had not choice but to be honest about it.

This whole entire situation is so messed up -- everything -- everything!

I touched base with this family member afterwards and he gave me a diff story -- but at this point, given how many lies my W has woven, I'm more inclined to believe the family member... And if he is telling the truth then my W really is very messed up, needs a LOT of help, and deserves any negative consequences for her actions... And apparently, based on what she told me, there were some negative consequences this weekend in terms of interactions with some key family members (clearly they disapprove of what she has done and is doing to me and our kids). I won't even go into what this family member said about how my W acted over the weekend with the family... What he described doesn't surprise me (because I've seen it here repeatedly), but just... whatever... Glad someone else observed it.

Regardless of what is right or wrong in this entire situation -- me talking to any of her family members is a huge strike against me... Even though another one of her family members has said she would have done the same thing in my situation.

We did have some open conversation about OW today... They are planning for OW to visit -- but W made comment about only being able to see OW a few times each year...So really?! They are both looking forward to a future where they both live in separate countries and only see each a few times each year? C'mon! I know my W better than to believe she could be satisfied in a R like that... and I don't know many 25 year olds who would be satisfied with a R like that... But again... whatever...

Who is this person living in this house with me?

[Jer2911]

After a very restless night of sleep... some more reflections...

Yes, I was wrong to confide so much in this family member of my W... But had I not done that then they would not know how many lies she is telling and as a result of them knowing this, there were apparently some expressions and actions of disapproval this past weekend.

Did my W feel hurt this weekend by all of that? She says she did. (Again, she's apparently much better at lying than I ever realized until recently, so who really knows...)

But none of this would be happening if she hadn't made the choices she did this past fall. None of this would be happening if she'd made the decision to talk to me about what was really going on with her and then seek professional help for herself as well as for us as a couple.

She also thinks she's in danger of losing her job because her performance is suffering -- which is a direct result of her emotional state and the lack of sleep she is getting (which is a result of being up at odd hours of the night engaging in a long distance A with someone in a different time zone.)

And now, as we get closer to separation, we are getting closer to her living the reality she thinks she wants -- me out of the house and us sharing joint custody of the kids with 50/50 possession...

So as of right now -- she is experiencing failing relationships with important family members, realizing that some key family members aren't going to buy into the fantasy with OW, is in danger of losing her job, is definitely suffering from sleep deprivation due to her own actions, and is on the verge of experiencing only having the kids half of the time and completely on her own during that time.

How much more needs to be added to that plate for her to hit rock bottom?

In other news -- I should be getting an interview soon for a job at the district. Might not necessarily be the job I am looking for right now, but it would get me back in and I can keep applying for other positions.

As soon as I get hired back on I can start looking for a new place to live so I can remove myself from the implosion going on here with W.

[Georgiabelle]

Jer,

Good luck on the job interview. Don't worry about whether or not it's exactly what you want-it's a start. Also, it will help give you something new to focus on and work towards. That will help you in detachment and building the life you want with the kids.

I'll let others chime in on the family member discussion. My x ILs are watching my kids as we speak and haven't spoken (xh's choice ) with their son in over a year. They love him as they should , however at this point they've decided to let him be. Probably a wise move as they are hurt. Letting him be while painful, seems to have helped them too.

And this is where I drag out what may be perceived as GB downerism.. Don't worry aboy W and rock bottom. Sadly, you may be surprised that they continue down a muddled, grenade ridden path for years. Some never hit rock bottom. And some to settle there with a blanket and pillow. I'm only saying this because I don't want you to get your hopes up that *this* has to be reaching tipping point. I've been there and so have many others.

Focus on you and the kids. Let W keep on her path.

Hang in there !!