Maybell XXIX

[claire7]

My H sees his D for a few hours a week, and when he comes to visit one morning a week before work, he can barely put his phone down. At 7 am. Even though he hadn't seen or spoken to her for 2 full days. What a peach.

Maybell, I'm so sorry to hijack your thread. It's really striking a chord with me, and also helping me detach.

These men don't deserve awesome women like us...

[Maybell]

I hear you all. So please understand I mean this question very seriously:

Is it my place to say these things to him? Or do I wait to say it through the lawyer?

I don't feel like I was a truly controlling person in our marriage. Micro-managed my areas of responsibility, definitely. But I basically went along with anything he wanted.

Do I get to tell him to step up and be a dad? Do I get to tell him his priorities are whack?

I don't feel like I do. Partly because he pushes back (like this morning when I said I had a hard time believing he couldn't take ONE evening for his kids and he threw back the "this is temporary" business).

I have a hard time imagining myself saying that to him and him actually changing to go along with my priorities.

[Underdog]

It's all in how you manage to state YOUR boundaries.

I'd use words like "I need xxx" and go from there.

"Since we've had kids, you find excuses not to fulfill your responsibilities as a parent by spending time with him. It's been your choice to separate and divorce, and I've accommodated your wishes. However, I now have a problem being the parent who comes to the rescue. By divorcing, you need to share parenting responsibility equally with me. I understand the schedules need to be tweaked when you have to travel, but when you are home, I expect and need you to honor your commitment to parent with me. To be explicit, I expect you to follow through on the schedule we arranged. If this doesn't work for you, let's talk about it. But the days when you say jump and I say how high are over. If you are not willing to share parenting time with me in this manner, please let me know so we can discuss the options with the attorneys."

Put the ball in his court, Maybell. Let him know you are not jacking around on this topic. The state of Maryland happens to agree with your position.

I wouldn't say to him that his priorities are screwed up. We know that already. You get to tell him that he has the option to create a schedule to which he will commit and follow with all reasonable effort; otherwise, you will have the lawyer represent your interests in this regard. Read: reset custody and child support.

Don't offer commentary or sarcasm to him. I know it's tempting. But until you have some type of dictum, document the times he weasels out on his schedule. Then you have evidence to back up your statements of truth. Facts, ma'am. That's all they want.

You're not micromanaging things, Maybell. You're trying to create structure to a new type of family unit. It's normal.

[SunnyB]

Maybell, my H is not nearly the slacker in the parenting department that your H is turning out to be. Still, I'm finding that there a limit to his sharing percentage. During this most recent round of calendar shifting, more than once I offered him a "make-up" day for a day he said he couldn't do. He consistently declined. I have tracked his overnights since Day 1 of our S, and he's settling in at 33%. (Only overnights count in FL.) That's the best he can do. And I'll have evidence of that when it comes time to make it all legal. I hope you are doing the same. You can't make him take the kids, but you can make him pay instead.

[Maybell]

Yes, I've been doing that. He doesn't keep them overnights on weeknights, only the weekend nights that are his (Friday and Saturday). Once he kept them Sunday and took them to school Monday. He offered to do that every week, last summer. But he goes to work way earlier than they go to school, and also he doesn't have a parking spot for his car, so I think that killed that.

[raliced]

I hear you all. So please understand I mean this question very seriously:

Is it my place to say these things to him? Or do I wait to say it through the lawyer?

Maybell, I have seen it stated many times on these boards that the WAS should "own" their relationships with their kids. It is one of the things I respectfully disagree with fairly frequently. Kids, are after all, kids, and not equal partners with adults. I guess I'm looking to be an advocate for my children when they need more time with their Dad or if he does something that harms their development. It would be nice to think that he would similarly point out anything I am doing that is out of whack - although I don't see that happening for a long time.

Earlier on your thread I stated my belief that WAH is going to do whatever the heck he wants no matter what I say or do, and I believe that (at least in these early days of separation and divorce). I know I can't control his actions, but it won't stop me from piping up if its something important about the kids.

Case in point- he returns the kids exhausted (and he has them during the school week). Right now, I say nothing because I personally think its more important that they spend positive time with him. But if it gets to the point that D6's schoolwork is affected, I will certainly have a conversation.

However, in fairness, my STBX has always been a reasonably engaged Dad. You have had struggles with this throughout the marriage, no? You've gotten some great advice from Underdog and I'm sure others will pitch in. I think this will be a long term "experiment and monitor results" project for you to see what potentially might work.

So to answer your question - your lawyer can handle conversations about the proposed custody situation and an appropriate level of compensation for you. I think its still in your court to poke your H with the occasional truth dart about the need for quality visitation.

I feel for all the kids - I always cringe to see them listed in a new poster's signature along with their ages. It makes me appreciate how fortunate I was to have my parents.

And that reminds me - I just have to pile on with another response about how your H could carve out time from work if he wantd to. My dad was the sole bread winner for most of my parents marriage. He came from nothing and worked like a dog in a fairly high level of management. I vividly remember a "temporary" period when he was extremely busy which he handled by leaving for work at 4:00 am so he could be home in time for dinner and spend time with us after his 12 hour day. There's always a way if your priorities are straight. And sadly right now, your STBX's are out of whack. Even worse, they may always be so. That's why your kids are so fortunate that their Mom's head is screwed on straight.

[Mozza]

Is it my place to say these things to him? Or do I wait to say it through the lawyer?

Honest question: What do you want? I lost track. I know you'd like him to care, but what would be a time share that would suit you? Thinking about your needs and that of the kids, of course.

In short, it's not for you to teach him anything. There's nothing to say. It's all your actions. If you want him to have the kids two nights a week, because you need the time off (you do) and the kids need to bond with him, then you set it and become inflexible about it. Make it a 180. From here, he seems to know exactly how much wiggle space he has with you. If he's a Nice Guy, like me, then his skill is precisely to measure this space and make the most of it. In fact, that's probably how he became successful, by guessing exactly what's expected of him and meeting it as efficiently as possible.

BTW, since he's that successful, I'm flabbergasted that he didn't get an apartment with enough space for them. There's something wrong with him. It doesn't seem to be depression. I wish an IC would x-ray him and report to us.

Oh and that comment about "I don't want to fight" is infuriating. What I'll grant him (or DB) is that you appear to "reason" a lot with him, as if you want to convince him of your reasoning. It's a lost cause. Stop explaining yourself, stop seeking his validation of your reasons and feelings. Just tell him what you want and enforce it.

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Just a thought: it's interesting how everyone in this discussion and, to a certain extent, on these boards appear to be involved parents, while so many WAS seem to be detached and uninvolved.

[Maybell]

I've got a lot to think about. I want him to be an involved dad. I don't want to lose time or shared experiences with my kids. I want to get more exercise. I love when the kids and I have relaxing evenings. I'm all over the map.

From here, he seems to know exactly how much wiggle space he has with you. If he's a Nice Guy, like me, then his skill is precisely to measure this space and make the most of it. In fact, that's probably how he became successful, by guessing exactly what's expected of him and meeting it as efficiently as possible.

You nailed it. A few hours after the exchange I mentioned I made a pretty big childcare request of him to cover from a day when the sitter can't make it, fully expecting him to say no, and he agreed to meet it. And tonight he called the kids.

So I have even MORE self-examination and experimenting to do.

Oh, and:

BTW, since he's that successful, I'm flabbergasted that he didn't get an apartment with enough space for them.

When he went looking for apartments, he had the choice between the very nice, freshly remodeled two-bedroom he's in (granite countertops, front-loading washer & dryer, etc.) and a much dumpier three bedroom closer to the house and his office. He sent me an email asking which one I thought he should get. I replied, "Well, you have THREE children."

So he got the two bedroom. Which, BTW, costs more. In fact... Since I've been looking around at rentals in my area in anticipation of selling our house, I've discovered that he could have rented a three bedroom HOUSE for less than the rent he's paying on his posh two bedroom pad.

Why am I even wandering around these cheeseless tunnels?

[KGirl]

^^^ I'm wondering Mozza's question, too Is this about you feeling like H should be a more involved parent and be spending more time with his kids? Or is this about what you want/need, meaning you need some time alone to recharge/get things done/go out with friends/etc.? If it's the first one, like people have mentioned, that's his relationship to have or not have with them, so no, I don't know that it's your place to say anything about that aspect of it. If it's the second one and it really truly is about you, then I think you have every right to say something (along the lines of the outline Underdog gave!)

I honestly thought my parents would have been D'ed by now (maybe they will when my 17yo sister moves out for college next year, who knows...) and when I was younger and thought about that, living with my dad part of the time never ever crossed my mind. I completely visualized that as living with my mom and maybe seeing my dad at holidays or during the day on a weekend but never pictured myself staying overnight where he lived. He was just not that involved. He tried sometimes but he was pretty clueless (and still is), not to mention he is a member of SAA and would try and talk to us about it even when we said it made us uncomfortable. Sometimes there's just a default parent and the other one doesn't have an impact.. and kids can turn out just fine (well, I like to think I turned out fine )

*sorry, this is now after your post so may or may not make sense anymore!

[Card29]

Hi Maybell, I'm not sure how much it's on your mind when you think of splitting time with the kids, but don't fret too much about losing time with them. Of course it's not the ideal path we envisioned when we got married and had kids, but you will adjust and probably even enjoy your alone time. Losing half of my time with D2 was almost the end of the world for me last summer. I still miss her sometimes, but it allows me to recharge in my off time and to pursue other interests.

As you know, there are some very wise people here, so keep sharing any thoughts you have on this topic. Odds are, you won't be the only one to learn from them.

And sorry I haven't been around much lately!