Maybell, Our issues with our spouse obviously don't magically disappear just because we are S/D (even though they seem to think that's what will happen!) I struggle with this A LOT-- trying to improve communication with someone while not being in a loving R with them, but having such an important job as child - rearing to do together. So so tough.
As we grow, we can use these interactions to test out changes in our own communication skills. .. that is all we can control after all. And in some ways, if we detach, the stakes are not so high. They are already gone, so it's not like we have to be afraid of that anymore.
You can't change or control him. But what about this CAN you change? I wonder if trying out some other responses when he says, "I don't want to fight" could be worth a try? Just to experiment?
claire7: If I can step in: My situation is very similar to that of bdub. Basically, I try to schedule stuff for when I'm available and, if I have the kids, well I just miss some stuff like work functions. I'm a dad, it comes with constraints and work does not always have priority. I've never requested a change (5 months now) but I've just agreed to two changes with WAW because she wants to attend a wedding this summer and because her father will be visiting from abroad at Easter while his business is closed, two important events that can't be moved.
In short, what I'm saying is that flexibility should be minimal. It's no longer about "accommodating" a spouse like it was in a M. We no longer share our lives and the kids need predictability.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Wow. The thought of my H forgoing a work event or sales trip because it interfered with his 2 nights/week with his D... let's just say he has missed MANY of his nights with her and that doesn't seem to be a pressing concern. The work stuff always seems unavoidable. Maybe it is just a factor of where he works and the expectations of his company and his role?
Holding him to it is likely to negatively impact his career. Wouldn't that hurt me (and more importantly our D), too?
It's tricky, I think. ..
Can you really say to your boss, "sorry I can't meet with the client that day because it's my night with my kids"?
Can you really say to your boss, "sorry I can't meet with the client that day because it's my night with my kids"?
Yes, you can. When D6 was born, I stopped the systematic overtime, that is outside of a special event (3-4 times a year). I was afraid it would impact my career, but it actually made m more productive. A year later, I was promoted. It was a very competitive workplace full of workaholics. Productivity is not about the hours. Client meetings are no more mandatory than kids care and they can be moved around. When you D, there are downsides and one of them is that your spouse is no longer there to pick up the slack. I say that as a LBH who has missed important events early in the morning because I had to drop off the kids. That's life and climbing up the corporate ladder to make more money or control more people is not all that there is. I've a very successful career by the way, one of the best among all my college-educated friends.
It's a mindset and I don't expect your H to get it. I would try to explain it to colleagues who would see me (and others) do it and they would say "Yeah, but we really have to meet that deadline." Guess what, it's a made-up deadline and it won't be met anyway because department X isn't done with their review or whatnot. Life goes on.
It come down to boundaries. People respect your time when you value it. I can almost guarantee that when your H is asked to do something on a day he has the kids, he doesn't even consider declining it. He needs to change that balance in his head. The bar for skipping childcare has to be raised much higher.
As I wrote in a few sitches, it's about living with the consequences of our choices. The S is not my choice, but I live with the consequences. My WAW will too and I won't take responsibility or even feel guilty for it.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
I will say that that there were times where I put my work first at times when I absolutely should have prioritised my family and personally I found the conflict between the two really stressful (too much of my self worth wrapped up in my career).
It took BD to make me really understand that I'd been making the wrong decisions (through fear). Sometimes it takes that metaphorical bucket of water to see it though.
You need to sort this for you and your kids, and your H is going to have decide what that means for his future relationship with his kids.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
Holding him to it is likely to negatively impact his career. Wouldn't that hurt me (and more importantly our D), too?
Mozza and Jim, I appreciate your perspective. I think there are several of us here that think like Claire. I certainly do. That's what we've been told. Our H's probably believe it, too. It was most likely true at first, and then it became a way of life because it wasn't challenged.
I used to think like that (and it does depend on the employer).
I was fearful that people would think i would have let them down or that they would use that as a reason to not promote me or not give me a payrise and over the last few years that they would use it as an excuse to make me redundant in the next round of cuts.
At somepoint though i realised that the people i work with arent like that and that when it comes to redundancies we've let some amazingly talented and hardworking people go just because thats where we are. I also realised i was over estimating my importance and irreplacability.
So me staying late, or not making an appointment wouldnt make the difference - its about what do i do when im there. Expectations are the problem more than anything (how often do we hear that????). And more seniority nearly always gives more freedom to make time for family
Do they believe it, is it just self aggrandizing or is it an excuse? doesnt matter, it wont change unless they feel it has to.
If you haven't seen it, id recomment watching 'the pursuit of happiness' (2006 film starring will smith) - its based on a true story.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
I'll answer more fully later, but I'll just say, STBX is quite high up in his company and certainly has the freedom to spend more time with the kids if he chose to. He chooses not to. Same as he intentionally chose an apartment that does not have space for them (they don't have beds at his place and each of them has a little basket for toys, books, and clothes).
You can smack me around for this if you'd like, but... Is 2 hrs a week really worth all this energy?
Last edited by Maybell; 02/11/1510:48 PM.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Crikey Maybell, I do feel for you. It certainly doesn't sound like he's worth wasting any energy on. Total abdication of any rsponsibility.
I see you've had loads of suggestions which I can't really add to apart from thinking if this isn't working, do something different. I'm afraid I don't know what sort of different. Maybe give up. Maybe I shouldn't say that.
(((Maybell)))
M: 57 / EW: 52 T: 21, M: 8 S: 18, S: 15 Bomb: 1 Jun 14 EA Aug 2014 I think PA Feb 2015 possibly sooner
Mozza and the "boys" are spot on. My XH was also someone who would call me at the last minute to let me know he "had" to work late and I needed to pick up the girls at daycare. How many times? Countless. Or we'd schedule a date night and somehow he'd get paged (shows you how long ago that was) and instantly need to show up. OK, he's a rocket scientist. Seriously. But they had on-call schedules, and invariably, the on call person would not answer the page... or the person calling didn't like their answer... or they just felt more comfortable calling my XH in to work. YES, it pissed me off. YES, I called him on it. And YES, I heard all the excuses these guys laid here on the virtual table.
Well, guess what? When we were drawing up a parenting plan, our mediator flat out told him he was going to have to prioritize the girls or pay up. And guess what else? He quit doing this. Sometime in the first year or two of our separation, I commented on it. He had the gall to tell me, "I should have said no all along. The first time I told them to call the on-call person and leave me alone? They told me they were wondering when I'd cut them off. I give, and they keep taking." Maybell, I was pissed.
Then, years later, he apologized again. He changed jobs within the company and commented, "I think a lot of our marital problems were centered around my inability to say no to work issues after hours when it wasn't my job." Ya think?
He's high up at his company too, Maybell. He's been there since 1991 and he flat out won't lose his job unless this Fortune 100 company goes under. He's been promoted, got raises and bonuses, and he works overtime when he doesn't have D17. Otherwise, he leaves when he's supposed to. But it took for our separation for him to get this. I won't say it didn't piss me off, because it did:he had a choice all along. He still works 60 hours a week, but he does it when he's not parenting. If that's how he wants to live, that's fine. It doesn't affect me anymore.
I understand deadlines. I really do. I own my own company and know they sometimes mean my paycheck will be affected. But they are the exception rather than the rule. If you live in exceptions, it means you don't have good time management skills and are probably pretty crappy at setting and enforcing boundaries.
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It's a mindset and I don't expect your H to get it. I would try to explain it to colleagues who would see me (and others) do it and they would say "Yeah, but we really have to meet that deadline." Guess what, it's a made-up deadline and it won't be met anyway because department X isn't done with their review or whatnot. Life goes on.
It come down to boundaries. People respect your time when you value it. I can almost guarantee that when your H is asked to do something on a day he has the kids, he doesn't even consider declining it. He needs to change that balance in his head. The bar for skipping childcare has to be raised much higher.
I don't think I could say this better. It's a home run.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
