How To Be A Man Only A Fool Would Leave Take #2

[T-Mom]

Again, HP, I am going to tell you that you are an inspiration.

[Vanilla]

HP

I am in general agreement with the amazingly insightful Wonka on this:

1. You are coming across as emoting
2. It is very early days
3. W is still unsettled
4. Boundaries are difficult to enforce
5. No fixed schedule for S
6. Ring is on off on off
7. Did I say it was very early days?

I confess to being very confused about IC. The couple I have had have been very clear that they are not entitled to any views on H either for or against. They have been very strictly impartial. Am I misunderstanding as I trying to put Starsky's views into context as I really rate his opinion.

V

[LITB]

Hello Jan, Wonka, and Starsky. I'm feeling deadly serious. Here's where I am...

When I walked into the IC office the first day... I asked her to help me detach. That's my #1 priority. To make the life I want without feeling to look over my shoulder at W.

I don't remember my IC ever specifically telling me to D, so if I said that before I mischaracterized what she said.

IC is, though, big on boundaries and she has told me to seriously consider a legal agreement/mediation to make sure W keeps to a schedule and pays what she should pay. I would say she is pushing me to be realistic and to take real steps to move on and firmly protect myself and S12. To make it real for all of us instead of this separation limbo W seems to be happy to keep us all in.

True, though, IC did not seem to support my year plan to self improvement without filing anything. She said that was still me holding on to hope. From sitches I've read here holding on to hope is the kiss of death for R. Letting go of hope guarantees my life gets better and makes a space for the possibility of R. I've learned that much here from all of you.

Thing is... a legal separation agreement from what I understand is more a negotiation with W than filing for a fault D is. That's what I'm looking to understand from the L... how I get more leverage to get what works for me and S12.

So... I've read a number of sitches here where the advice from vets including you good people advising me here is always the same... pull away from wayward... fight legally for your for your kids and your money when needed... be firm and consistent with boundaries... GAL... get to the point where you don't need but might maybe just maybe very conditionally want W.

Where I am... right at the beginning of a bad sitch with a WAW that has been unbalanced and cursing and drinking and ugly and crazy to spend the rest of her life with an older man with 3 kids she met 5 months ago... I can see that any R I would want is years away and I do not need or want W now. I can clearly see not being excited about an R with her unless she changes a lot. That me and my son would be great without R. I spend a little more time thinking about the possibilities in life now than thinking about how hurt I've been.

So I want to live now. I want to move away from this city summer after next. If it takes a fault D to make that happen where I can get custody of my son then I'm there.

Also, if filing ends the power struggle with W and shows her again this is not the party she expected it to be then all the better.

So my terms are not R at any cost. My terms are a wonderful woman I can see is invested and loving towards me and S12. This is not W.

Thanks to this board... I did not wait for W to separate from me. I separated from her and took S12 with me (thank you again Wonka). I never would have believed it possible to get control of my life at the beginning of this when I was just waiting for W to choose me.

Now, waiting for her to set a schedule and tell me if she can pay her share and let me move where I want to with S12 while she gives me attitude and likely talks to another man more than her son isn't working for me. She did not call tonight to ask about S12's basketball game. Did not call to say good night to him. She not worth waiting for and I can't change her.

So like was said here... I'll start by being collaborative about the schedule and we'll see if she pays her part of tuition. I'll prepare a plan for legal separation agreement or D that works for me if it comes to that. If I get completely sick of her antics then I can pull that trigger.

If I lose her doing so... I lose nothing b/c she's already gone and I'm quickly beginning to see how that's a good thing.

And maybe that's the best hope my MR has.

HP,

This is very well thought out. If these feelings remain consistent over the next week/month, then I don't think anyone can argue with you filing for separation/divorce. From what I gather, you are prepared for the outcome either way. That's the key.

Making such a significant life decision with conviction, demonstrates strength and courage. Two traits that are attractive, and garner respect.

We all DB at our own pace. You are doing well. Stay humble my friend.

[Wonka]

HP,

When I walked into the IC office the first day... I asked her to help me detach. That's my #1 priority. To make the life I want without feeling to look over my shoulder at W.

That was your goal in going to IC was learning how to detach from W after moving to the condo. Here's a fact: you haven't fully detached from W based on your up and down emotions/reactions.

I do worry that, in your mind, filing for a D is a knee-jerk reaction to hearing from S12's inquiry and the IC that your M is supposedly declared "dead." Based on your WAW's words. As you should now by now on this site that many WASes speak in the absolutes...that's because they're operating from dopamine and emotion. There's no rational thought process here.

Again, is this what YOU really, REALLY want, HP? You need to get away for a while and really be totally honest with yourself without having some background noises distracting you.

I do worry that IC is driving you toward a path that you are not 100% confident on or content to walk on.

IC is, though, big on boundaries and she has told me to seriously consider a legal agreement/mediation to make sure W keeps to a schedule and pays what she should pay. I would say she is pushing me to be realistic and to take real steps to move on and firmly protect myself and S12. To make it real for all of us instead of this separation limbo W seems to be happy to keep us all in.

Make it real for WHAT? For whom? I mean, you've just begun to take a firmer stand your boundaries only 3 to 4 days ago. Maybe I'm wrong...it seems that you're coming at W with a sledgehammer (i.e. legal separation) without giving her time and space to truly step up. You've been pretty poor with establishing and enforcing boundaries all along because of your fear and some wet nooddle moments.

That text you sent to W last week was the FIRST time that you've truly enforced a boundary and I really think that you can build from that point and on. That was JUST the schedule. You haven't tackled the finances yet.

Thing is... a legal separation agreement from what I understand is more a negotiation with W than filing for a fault D is. That's what I'm looking to understand from the L... how I get more leverage to get what works for me and S12.

Leverage on what? That is a head-scratching thing to say here. You have no leverage to speak...really. Many DBers go to the legal separation route ONLY after the following reasons:

1) Facing serious financial harm (i.e. WAS cleaning out the bank accounts, racking up debts, refusing to pay bills, etc.)

2) Protecting the family from financial destruction

Now let's see. You want a legal separation over peanuts. I'm serious. In my view, you're grabbing a supposed "lifeline" by IC in order to get your W to adhere to a set schedule and put a foot to her neck on finances when you have NOT yet addressed the financial issues.

It seems to be that you do not have the strength nor have shown to us to date to show consistent boundary laying and enforcing them. You're looking for external solutions to do YOUR own heavy lifting of boundary enforcing.

So... I've read a number of sitches here where the advice from vets including you good people advising me here is always the same... pull away from wayward... fight legally for your for your kids and your money when needed... be firm and consistent with boundaries... GAL... get to the point where you don't need but might maybe just maybe very conditionally want W.

1) Pull away from WAW: mixed results due to up and down reactions

2) Fight legally for kids and your money when needed: Why? You have S12 and you two apparently do not have much assets. Nor is W depleting or "robbing" you blind from the bank accounts since you've already established your own accounts.

3) Be firm and consistent with boundaries: D+. Needs improvement. Needs to learn how to implement and enforce them. Just started as of last week and I am afraid that Mr. Poirot is ready to give up before the school year is out. It is worrying if he wishes to move up to the next grade in DB School of Hard Knocks.

4)GAL: Sputtering. D-. Needs to pick up the slack for it will aid greatly in the detachment department.

Also, if filing ends the power struggle with W and shows her again this is not the party she expected it to be then all the better.

So it is a power struggle, not your failure at enforcing boundaries, huh? Ok...go ahead and pass the buck elsewhere.

Now, waiting for her to set a schedule and tell me if she can pay her share and let me move where I want to with S12 while she gives me attitude and likely talks to another man more than her son isn't working for me. She did not call tonight to ask about S12's basketball game. Did not call to say good night to him. She not worth waiting for and I can't change her.

Pshaw! C'mon! It sounds like you're playing the victim card pretty heavy here. Whose fault is it that you allow her to give you an "attitude." Where's your self-respect and insistence on respect from W?

Oh and that ratty scorecard? Lose it!

You know that DBing is a marathon. Become the MAN only a fool would leave. You have made ZERO efforts toward that goal because:

1) You're not doing much GALing, if any
2) You're too invested in how and what W says...reacting instead of taking charge of your own emotions
3) You're not detached

How's that working for you so far, HP?

Not much.

So a D is the path of least resistance. Ok. Your choice.

[Wonka]

HP,

What I am trying to drive at here is this:

What are your true motivations?

Are they:

-authentic
-loving
-genuine

I am wondering if you're acting out of frustration and maybe a sense of powerlessness with your W's actions????

[HPoirot]

Hello Karma, T-mom, Vanilla, LITB, and Wonka. First, I want to say how thankful I am for this board. I was so devastated when I got here... I had not idea what to do or what was happening in my world. W had control of everything and I was flapping in the wind. Without all of you here... W may have been here living in the condo still leaving to spend nights with her "girlfriend" with me still scrambling to please her back into our M. I owe all of you here so much.

Right now I'm peaceful here in the condo with my boy. We did nothing today but relax. His running around laughing and joking. I'm in a good way too.

W has apparently got back from her trip to the West Coast and was calling S12. He was in the shower so he didn't answer. She just texted me saying she can't reach him and asking if everything's all right. This after not trying to reach him last night or the night before. I ignore her text. S12 eventually answered his phone but said he'd call her back. Then he did not. I let it go.

Wonka... short answer is yes I've been frustrated and feeling powerless. Yes my desire to file D is me wanting to stay ahead of W. The main thing I want is primary or sole custody. I want to leave this city summer after next. I can see how I'm a WAH this way. Whatever I can do to get away from W. That is my motivation. It's not loving but it is authentic.

I keep in mind all that you and 25 and others say about being loving and empathetic. I have not forgotten my neglect of my M or my not meeting W's emotional needs. I do want to save my M. To be a man a fool would leave.

When Starsky and other say I should be much farther along... that's in all the things you said...

1) I'm not doing much GALing, if any
2) I'm too invested in how and what W says...reacting instead of taking charge of my own emotions
3) I'm not detached

I'm not giving up on these things. I'm getting better at #2 & #3. Yes I still must do #1.

I'm rushing b/c I'm tired and it's past time to sleep. I just wanted to say think you Wonka and everyone else sticking with me and sharing such wonderful advice and 2x4s.

I agree that my filing D is the path of least resistance and I would just be another WAH that way. Sometimes I don't care to give her space and time to step up. I'm not at all happy with her right now. Not very hopeful that an R with her would be what I want. Maybe I'm starting to like this life not knowing or hearing about her. Not having to answer to her or care what she thinks of me.

That's where I am right now. I'll post more later and catch up on other sitches.

But, like LITB says, I'm letting my desire to file a fault D sit with me for a while. Just find out the information and see how things go with financials with W.

I would love to have a loving M with W and S12 and for all of us to get what we want. I know, though, that I have to really let go of that want to ever get there. I'm just weighing options with your help. Thank you again.

[HPoirot]

Slept on it. Thought about it more.

The DB thing for me to do is to keep working on me. Really GAL. Find a life I love and live it. Keep going.

I'm believe in the GAL and finding a life I love. I will get there.

In my sitch, with my W... as much as I still want my family to be whole and happy... why not consider filing D if I can get custody of my son and move on to a better life?

As empathetic as I can feel for W... I don't want her in my life if this is how she's going to be with me and S12.

The big things I've done in this sitch have been hard line actions... not being friends to W b/c she didn't end OM contact... snooping to confirm her PA and telling her to her face I knew... not welcoming her to the condo... standing up to her screaming and cursing... leaving for the condo with S12... taking care of S12 all this time... cutting off most contact with W.

If I look at W objectively... I don't want her now. If she's ever someone I'd want to time with, then great. That's not today nor anytime soon. That, and I want to move to a city S12 and I would love to live in.

The only sitch I've seen so far with R with an unrepentant and angry wayward W in a PA was Starsky's. My understanding of what he did is he actively attacked the A and went to D his W b/c he wasn't going to be sh!t on.

I agree with all of you that I can't attract anyone back or live a good life while being sh!t on. That can't continue.

I am going to prepare to D on my terms while I grow to be a man only a fool would leave.

I've been very very fortunate to get the advice I've received here and life for S12 and me has benefitted greatly from it. I do want to DB and save my M. If by setting the boundaries for finances and schedule while just staying away from W and GALing for myself can help heal us then yes I'll keep on as planned.

I don't want to be wrong. I'm very serious now.

[bdub]

HP,

I don't post here often but I do follow along. I just want to say that I am gettting a vibe from you that says you are trying to punish your WAW. In your sitch filing may be the right move, but be very careful that you are doing it for the right reasons.

It is amazing to see the confidence you have gained and the strides you have made.

[HPoirot]

Hello bdub. I don't want any of this and I don't want to punish my W. It seems my W is content to stay separated for 2 years at which time she can just get a D if and how she wants. The leverage I might have is threatening to file a fault D because of her A. This way the L could negotiate a better agreement.

I have a call in to my L to follow up on this option. I am going to follow through on the financial boundaries as Wonka says. As W has asked about child support a couple times, she may still say she can't pay her part. I'll check if she did today as the school sent a late payment notice.

I'm fortunate not to be living with and supporting W while in her A thanks to Wonka and others here. I do take advice here seriously and I agree I must do everything better. It is my responsibility to show strength if anything in my R can get better. Other than LRT and being pitch black, filing D b/c I'm really done with W is an option. I don't want to kill any future chance for R, but I'm not afraid to any more.

[HPoirot]

Wrestling with my thoughts...

I shouldn't have said I think I know what W is thinking about separation. All I know is that, as our sitch went on, she started to threaten separation. Then I left and she would say all along she said we should separate... like she was waiting for me to give her permission. That and she was looking at websites talking about being separated without D. She has never talked about D. I'm the only one that has mentioned it.

Now, she still calls and asks me to call her to talk about things like spring break and filing taxes. She left a VM again just now. All very friendly like she thinks I'm all in with this separation. I have not brought up MR since our last R talk which was terrible and screaming. She said she was happy to have that talk and wants more.

I know everything she says is script from reading sitches here. Her finding her "soul mate" and her angry/guilty feelings and her rationalizing S12's emotions and her real reasons for her unhappiness in our M due to my cluelessness and taking her for granted are all common in wayward Ws. So what she's doing is predictable. This is a marathon not a sprint and again I'm impatient.

I know I'm feeling very negatively about her and now I don't see any good things about her. I have not brought myself to listen to her like a lover or show the patience to just let my sitch play out now that I'm getting some support to dump her with D b/c she's acting like someone needing to get dumped.

I'm just still really pitch black dark. If I'm letting this play out for like I planned to until May 1, there's nothing else for me to do except enjoy my life and GAL. Enforce boundaries like Wonka says.

I'm just doubting it will make any difference with my R. Filing D... being decisive and taking a hard appropriate action against a W who does this instead of stepping aside quietly sounds really good.