How To Be A Man Only A Fool Would Leave

[Wonka]

Sandi,

Sorry to have the blinders on that I did not circle back to you earlier and say I too appreciate your comments and perspectives here.

((Sandi))

This is why I love the DB community so much!

[TLEE86]

HP, sorry its been so long since Ive posted here, but I have been following closely. You seem to be getting a lot of good advice from a great group. Only thing I will say is that I really admire how cordial you have been lately, and seem to have turned a corner in yourself as far as communication with your W. I don't see or sense as much bitterness or anger as before. Whatever you're doing to make that happen, keep it up. When you feel yourself reverting back to anger, pull back as much as possible without getting into a bigger argument with W about not answering the phone. You're doing great HP.

[Karma12]

What a great discussion. So nice to see people feeling safe and able to share.

I think there is something to the gender issue. Most times if a wife dies young the husband remarries faster than if the roles were reversed. Also after a divorce I believe ( from what I have read and witnessed in my 52 yrs) men remarry faster. When a wife dies after decades of marriage the husband often dies soon after. For some reason women tend to do better long term on their own than men do. Maybe not as much in the up coming generations but definetly mine and those before me.

Fear can be crippling. Life keeps moving and changing whether we want it too or not. We are stronger than we know.

[HPoirot]

Hello Everyone. Thank you for all the replies and the words of support. This was a wonderful and very valuable conversation about fear here. I am again very humbled that such great information and guidance ends up here.

I'm just journaling right now b/c S12 is screaming on the phone with his mom. He's in his room with the door closed. I'm not listening. I'm not intervening. IC said to let him scream at his mom if he needs to.

W called him tonight and he asked if he would be staying with her tomorrow night. She must have told him he would stay with her for the next 2 nights. (On the calendar she had scheduled only one night. It changed to 2 after I hammered her about being away 2 weekends in a row.)

I was in the living room with him at the time so I heard what he was saying. He said he had a lot of homework and he's been tired and needs to get good sleep. He said he wanted to see her, but didn't know if he could get sleep at the aunt's house. He asked if there was another bed... if he had to sleep with her in the same bed again.

Then I left the room. He then went into his room, still talking to his mom, and closed the door. I thought that was good.

He came out later and was off his phone. He said he was tired and was going to bed. I went in and asked if he was OK. He says he's tired. I kiss him and say my usual happy dreams speech. I've said the same thing to him every night for many years.

When I close his door... I get a text from W. Something like... "S12 is upset. He doesn't want to spend the night with me. He said you were upset about my trip and that I wouldn't be with him next weekend. I wish you hadn't told him. He thinks I'm a bad mom. My heart is broken."

Then I hear S12 yelling in his room. I go in and I see he's on the phone. I leave and close the door.

I get another text from W. I only glance at it. Something about I'm entitled to my feelings but I shouldn't share them with S12. Something bout how she only says good things about me to S12.

Pointless to tell her me and S12 say a prayer for her every night. Pointless to say I tell S12 everyday his mom loves him and I love and miss her even if I'm upset about her choices. Pointless to remind her I told her over the weekend that S12 misses her and she should be here like we expected her to be and that S12 would be disappointed. Her reply... "S12 won't be disappointed. I'll talk to him."

After a bit, S12 calls me and says he's off the phone if I want to talk with him. I go in. He says he called him mom b/c he had something to say. That he was angry with his mom.

He said, "She failed my expectations."

I asked, "What expectations?"

"As my mom."

He didn't want to talk about what he told her. He said this is hers to fix but she's not fixing it.

I kissed him. Told him he'll get to see his mom tomorrow. That's great right? He says yes. I tell him to come get me if he needs anything. I leave him to sleep.

...

I am sick of this. She has seen him maybe 30 minutes in the past week. Blames me for her not having a good place to keep him b/c I made her homeless and took her car. Blames me for all our hardships b/c I found her secret A. This transition would have been easier if I gave her the benefit of the doubt (instead of snooping) she actually said to me during our last R talk. Asks me why I don't believe her when she flies across the country to a "work" party instead of being here with her son. Feels upset that I told him she wouldn't be here after she promised him and me she would be here for him on weekends.

And she feels justified about all of it. It's pointless to argue with her or point any of the above out to her. Now she's upset her supermom job over the next 2 nights (originally 1 night) is now harder.

How do I validate any of this? "I understand W. This is a difficult time for all of us."

No. I'm just ignoring her texts tonight.

Today was almost a completely no contact day. I think I've had one so far in the last 6 weeks. I didn't make it today.

I'm sure if she was typing her perspective of what just happened, it would make perfect sense and I would clearly be a bad guy. How else could she say what she says unless she really thinks I'm out to ruin her life.

Just yesterday she asks me to please please help her by not giving her a hard time about her trip next weekend... or anything else. But, b/c I don't deliver her son to her smiling and happy... I make her sweat and cry about her choices... I'm the bad guy. If only I didn't discover she's right now being an adulteress and a liar she says.

I'm not angry. Not really even irritated. Which is great... a few weeks ago I would've been shaking with fury after a night like this.

I'm even smiling a little. I understand what's going on. S12 is going to be OK. He has a right to his anger. He sees what's going on. He said is was very happy and comfortable here with me just now. We have a good time and laugh and wrestle. When he's sad... I talk with him. I'm doing great with him. That's whats important.

Tomorrow she'll be by to pick up S12. I'll be cordial and businesslike. No problem.

PS... I think S12 knows what his mom is doing. When he was talking about her fixing things, he slipped and said "She che..." Then he said "She lied." I didn't ask him about it.

[HPoirot]

Was about to go to bed... then I read W's text.

She asks if we can try to be mindful of how we message things for S12. She says she's certainly mindful when S12 asks her about about me or the future. Says she always positions me positively. She says she's not saying I don't do that for her. (Then why is she saying any of this?) She says she understands if I don't talk about her like this adults in my life. She says she just hopes we can put aside our personal feelings and not put S12 in the middle. She then thanks me for listening and says... "See u in the morning."

So, being detached is not feeling insulted or condescended or angry at the nerve of this person who is hurting her son daily to lecture me about messaging to him.

Despite the tone of the last sentence... I'm getting closer to detaching then. I only feel a mild irritation. More sad then anything.

So, buddha had a way to deal with texts like this... "If someone gives you a gift and you refuse to accept it, to whom does the gift belong?"

I'll leave her stuff in her sandbox then.

And yes Sandi, I do not want W as she is now. I'd have to be really desperate to want this person. I want better and will keep working to attract it into my life.

Onward.

PS: Excellent blog post about how to be unoffendable... http://www.ndoherty.com/unoffendable/

[Wonka]

HP,

W is certainly feeling some guilt over this and is trying to play the "good girl" in this by appealing to the decency in you. Do you see how wrong-headed this line of logic is??!! She's the one that BROKE up the family with her A and S12 has every perfect right to feel anger toward her.

S12 and W's relationship is theirs to own. It is good of you to continue staying out of the way and let them forge a R on their own.

How about sending a simple response to W:

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I am staying out of your relationship with S12 since it is for you guys to figure out together. You need to understand that S12 is entitled to his feelings. It is essential that we respect them and allow him the space to have them. See you tomorrow. Take care.

[Wonka]

Oh and if your W tries to lecture you again about not bad mouthing you or getting in the middle, calmly say:

Stop this. I do not need to explain or defend myself here. I am very comfortable with my relationship with S12 and we are doing good here. If you must know, I have been nothing but supportive of S12's relationship with you. Thanks for your concern.

You really need to nip her histronics in the bud.

[Karma12]

That's some really good advice from Wonka HP. I would do exactly as she suggested.

[HPoirot]

Hello Wonka and Karma. Thank you for the support.

Wonka I missed your posts last night so I did not respond to W texts. When she does this again I'll use them. Thank you so much for your excellent scripts.

Right now things are still frosty between us. This morning, S12 woke up in a funk still talking about not wanting to spend the next 2 nights with his mom. He was little upset when he saw me pack his guitar to go with him. He said he didn't want to practice over at the aunt's house. I said I understand but this is what his mom asked me to pack with him. She said we didn't have to do what his mom asks for. I said I understand your feelings. Let's help mom and do what she asks. You can talk more with her about what you want when you see her.

When W got here, I thought I was even. Not at all happy to see her, but not angry either. She did not get out of the car. She said good morning and I said hey. I bent down to tell S12 goodbye. I glanced at W and she started to tell me something but then looked at me and seemed to decide not to. I said OK, closed the door, and walked away.

She just texted me and said she changed the schedule through March 1 and asked me to confirm I'm OK with the changes. I've now set the calendar to notify me when she makes future changes. I'll also install Google Calendar on S12's phone so he can also see and get notified of the schedule. W said a little while ago she did not want S12 to have the schedule to save him stress. That doesn't make sense. I've noticed that I can't edit the calendar. Will bring that up to her. I prefer the family calendar where any changes have to be agreed to by the other party before they go through.

I'll text her this later today.... "Hello W. Thank you for making this new schedule. Can you help me with 2 things? I noticed before I cannot edit the schedule you make. Also, you made new changes between 2/10 and 2/15 dates after you asked me to review the changes. I could have missed your changes. I'm sure you agree it's fair for both of us to be able to edit the calendar and to be notified and get the opportunity to approve any changes before they go on the calendar. To do this, please move your changes as is to the helpful 2houses calendar you suggested we use before. Once that's done, then I will look at the full schedule and confirm it is OK for you. Thank you W."

I'm going to review the great advice I've received on this thread later. I think at this point I'm doing right... staying dark, sending her calls to VM, being firm on her keeping schedule without changes, paying my part of expenses, GALing, not being offended by anything she does, staying out of S12 and W's relationship, pushing back when she tries to make me the bad guy.


I'm going to schedule another DB coach session at some point. I think I have an IC session today.

Back to work.

Onward.

[HPoirot]

OK I believe this move will get the schedule under control. We'll have a calendar we can both edit and any changes she wants to make will have to be approved by me and vice-versa.

She replied "OK that sounds great HP. How are you?"

I ignore her questions about me. The one time I didn't, she said she missed me and I took that too far. Still trying to find that balance.

I think I did well stating my position on the schedule while making it more collaborative and fair in a way that sounds supportive of W by asking for her help.

Finances next. Thank you everyone.