How To Be A Man Only A Fool Would Leave

[Mozza]

We see this so much in threads from the LBH's. Why are they so paralyzed by the fear of D? I could understand financial ruin, possibly losing their children, being alone, or something of that nature. I have a hard time really understanding the "fear" of the D itself.

Divorce is not the end of the world. Sometimes it even gives the couple a second chance where as nothing else seem to work. And as HP has said more than once, he can see himself being happy with a different woman.

I am just trying to understand what the "fear" really is about for the men. Does this mean all those jokes about the old ball & chain is just a cover, and the truth is you are just as emotionally dependent on a M as a woman? You really don't want to be single, like guys pretend?

I am afraid of D because I'm afraid that the negotiations leading to it will push us further apart. I'm afraid of this volatile environment where we share, in an adversarial context, our differences about money, children and home countries. I'm afraid that third parties will push us apart, by imposing their vision of what's fair and what we should each get out of the D. I'm afraid some false movement on either part will get the guns blazing.

I've also never been one to joke about the "balls and chain". I was happy and proud to be married, especially to this W. It's not so much because I was the provider, but because I was provided and balanced. My IC observed that for me, being M, was a "problem solved". I'm not that comfortable around women and finding one that I love and that loves me back, feeling so lucky was such a feeling of accomplishment, even of relief. I found her intelligent, witty, gorgeous, fun, positive, sociable, etc. I've always thought that sex is better in a stable relationship and we had a very good sex life, so I never felt like I was missing out on sleeping with other W. I don't know enough what it means to be emotionally dependent, but I've put a lot of my heart and soul in this R, doing and saying things that I meant only once. The "us" was very important to me, the intimacy, be it intellectual, emotional or physical. I don't think that there's only one person for me in the world, but I do think that I can make one person very special for me.

[u-turn]

I'd have to say that being known as the provider is important but I'm not afraid of losing that, not being alone is important but I'm not afraid of that, but I feel that I have some fear D because:

I do not want to be known as a failure that couldn't keep his wife happy and his family together. No matter what odds I was against, keeping us together as a healthy and happy family is how I measured my success.

Throughout my adult life we have looked at married couples and how they acted negatively toward each other and thought I'm so glad we are not that way, or how do you let your relationship look like that, or why are they even married. But I knew that I had what it took to succeed at marriage and keeping my family together - smug.

I don't want to fail and I don't want be judged as a bad husband or a bad father (even though I know it not to be true) and really do not have any interest in people judging my W as a bad W.

fear of judgement.

[sandi2]

I am so grateful for all your responses. You guys have my tears streaming, after reading all these posts b/c I hear the sincerity, love, dread, sadness and hurt. It made me think of that song, "When a Man Loves a Woman". And Wonka, you have the heart and understanding, and that is the important equipment.

I appreciate you all for taking the time to share your feelings. I believe that is how we can learn from each other.

[HPoirot]

Hello everyone. Great conversation here.

I feel fear of failure, stress, and losing money. So the fears I live with everyday.

I want to see my family together at a new level of togetherness and happiness and love. I prefer not to fail there.

I hate the stress of dealing with W's stress, fear, anxiety, anger, and crying. So more fears I've lived with many days. I prefer not to deal with this mess from her for years of co-parenting.

And I already have money issues I'm paying off. I prefer not to sink thousands of dollars deeper in the hole.

So, W says she'll have her apartment in 2 weeks instead of next week. I have told her I prefer to start a 4 day split once she has her place. She wants to keep S12 for the majority of the time for a few weeks to balance out our time. I've had him 95% of the time so far. Then she agreed to try the 4 day split though she prefers a week on/off schedule. It could be a good idea for S12 to stay with her the first week to get acclimated there. Being away from my son for a week at a time moving forward does not sound good to me, though.


As for tuition, I will pay my part on Friday and will let her know. She has said she can't afford her agreed to part of the payment. She has now brought up wanting child support a couple times lately. It will be tight for her to pay all her expenses.

My state has no legal separation. We'd have to agree on a separation agreement. If we can't agree... then it goes to court sponsored mediation.

So, the 2 things I want at this point are for W to pay her 35% of S12's tuition as agreed and to agree to a 4 day split schedule. I've already told her both these things.

On the money, her reply is... "I can't afford it. I have more expenses than you." On the days... "I love my son and you've had more days with him." If I say... "that's b/c you didn't have a place S12 liked so you couldn't do as you said you would with your schedule," she replies... "You made me homeless and took the car. It's not my fault."


I preferred to let her initiate any legal action like DB says. So I was going to pay my part of our joint bills, be agreeable with her schedules, and just keep working on my life.

So, do I send her a nice text asking for her schedule idea? Also, I'll just keep paying my part of things and expect her to pay her part?

Or do I just go straight to a lawyer, have a separation agreement made, and send it to her? If I can somehow get primary custody, that would be better parenting and financially for me.

Then, there's the terrible thing that happened to Jan... when she filed for legal separation and her W changed it to D. If that happens then easier for me. I just want to make sure W can't control my life.

[HPoirot]

There's also the trip my W is taking this weekend. The one she didn't ask me about after she said she would take S12 on weekends. She simply scheduled it on the calendar with without mentioning it or asking if I was OK with it.

She says it's a work trip and explained how it came about. She said she did not know where she was staying let... the client of her company that she says she is traveling with are supposed to make those arrangements and tell her. She said this is her income and for me to please please help her with this. She said she would send the details when she can.

There is a chance, though, this is not a work trip. The event is a nationally televised awards ceremony and party on Friday night. She comes back Sunday. I did apologize for my reaction and demands for information about who was paying for this trip... but should I insist on the details b/c she said she would take weekends or just let it go?

[Wonka]

HP,

We aren't a boring bunch...eh?

You asked:

So, do I send her a nice text asking for her schedule idea? Also, I'll just keep paying my part of things and expect her to pay her part?

My suggestion is to tackle one battle at a time. If I were you, the first area of focus is to get the schedule in place. The finances can be done after you both have agreed to a set schedule. It is confusing to mix them up at once.

Or do I just go straight to a lawyer, have a separation agreement made, and send it to her? If I can somehow get primary custody, that would be better parenting and financially for me.

You're getting ahead of yourself here. The problem is that you HAVE NOT made any moves on schedule because you keep procrastinating. My suggestion is for you to collaborate with W on a set schedule for one month and then post it for all three of you to see. Then reassess if needed. Starsky suggested using Corzi (is that the right one?) as a starting point.

Then, there's the terrible thing that happened to Jan... when she filed for legal separation and her W changed it to D. If that happens then easier for me. I just want to make sure W can't control my life.

Ypu cannot compare your sitch with other person's. Doesn't necessarily mean it will actually happen here. I urge all DBers to try for a collaborative approach FIRST before seeking legal assistance.

In summary, the focus is on the scheduling first and then tackle the finances.

[Wonka]

but should I insist on the details b/c she said she would take weekends or just let it go?

Let it go. The only thing that matters is that W is reachable in case of emergency.

[HPoirot]

Thank you Wonka. On the schedule... the issue is that we've had a set calendar on Google calendar. We both agreed to each of her schedules but then she could never make her end happen.

So this month she has planed on Google calendar. I have him this week except for one night (except now she has changed that to 2 nights it seems) and this weekend. She has him scheduled with her all next week as she was supposed to have her apartment. But it is already wrong b/c now she has changed her apartment move in from next week to the week after.

So I'll just send her a text... "Hello W. Looking at the Google calendar for this month. Can you please confirm you will keep S12 all next week? Then, please update the weeks after to the 4 week split schedule. Please also remember I'll be busy on x-x days. Thank you W."

I keep saying this is what I have to do. I have no fear of pissing W off. Sometimes it's fun. I just want to be sure this is "what works."

There's also the talking with W. She's back to saying I'm not being an adult b/c I don't answer her phone calls. I really hate that but I've told her I'm not answering her calls and then I'm consistently not answering her calls. When she starts to keep S12 more, she will call and expect me to answer in case it's an emergency. Do I just keep letting her calls go to VM no matter what she says?

[Wonka]

Does S12 have access to the schedule as well? In my mind, it is imperative that all three of you have access to the schedule so S12 knows where he will be at all times and not be pulled in all different directions like a Raggy Andy doll.

When I was young, I knew my schedule because my late father and stepmother would post it for me. When they first got married and went on a honeymoon not long after my 3rd birthday, they gave the printed schedule at my pre-school so the teachers would crouch next to me as I marked "X" each day so I had a sense of when they'll return from their honeymoon.

This keeps every one honest and I think W would toe the line more with the awareness that S12 sees the same schdedule as you and W do.

Hey, who wants to come out looking like a "bad guy" for switching the schedule so many times?

Try it and you'll be surprised.

[Zues126]

I believe that men need women more than women need men. In general. I think this is validated by how many women initiate divorce percentage wise.

I do agree men define themselves by taking care of their woman. If their woman looks up to them, appreciates them, and is happy with them, all is well. I think this is true even among many WAHs. Most of them walk because they CAN'T satisfy their woman, not because they don't need to.

I think men need women like women need children. They don't HAVE to have them, but it is their primary purpose instinctively. EDITED TO ADD- I think the prospects to a mother of losing her children is horrifying. If you told them "life goes on" that would be completely insensitive. To me that's how I feel about losing my W. No, I wouldn't want to lose a child, I don't want to compare loses. Just saying that my W was at the heart of me, and my children were at the heart of my W in a way I never was.

As for me, I fear D...because it represents in some way my belief in love. I believed in permanent, committed, relationships, and that two people would never give up on each other, or on finding a way to make it work. I think it's despicable that this is done so readily. It's our world. We get to choose whether we love each other or hurt each other. Something about tearing apart a family is so troubling to me. The fact that it is considered ok is even more troubling to me.

I don't believe divorce is ok. I get the world doesn't care what I believe. But that is how I feel. We weren't given each other to leave each other. Maybe I'm just idealistic and divorce represents the death of my illusions about love in this world. There is no love or commitment, just a bunch of shortsighted reactive selfish individuals that will stick together as long as it benefits them enough.

But for me that's not true. I'll make my beliefs true for ME. And if someday someone like me want's to make that a reality with me, then we can make it true for the two of us.