train, 25yrs, others who kept up on my sitch

[Complex]

Thanks for posting the article unbidden.
This helped me a lot. I'm struggling with forgiving, especially myself. And we have to forgive ourselves FIRST before we can truly forgive others.

[Jefe]

Oh I agree Jefe, I do feel a sense of wanting to punish.

I don't know how to move past that feeling. It feels as though he has had no consequences for his actions and I am the one who gets screwed for his actions. I guess (and maybe this makes me a bad person and I need to change this about myself) but I want him to have consequences for his choices.

Let's just say for a moment he hasn't had any consequences, zero. He's done bad stuff and gotten off scott free. You're carrying the hurt, anger, resentment. You want to make sure he really knows he hurt you. I mean, you just want to kick him in the groin. The fact that he's attempting to be kind right now, even "lying" about it is insulting, right?

Now, what if you reached out in love and just said "thank you"? You can't really get hurt by a cup of coffee, can you? I mean, even if he totally lied about how he got it, it's still a cup of coffee. You don't even have to forgive any of the other stuff. You don't have to trust him on any other subject. You can still be angry and hurt. Just be loving on this one, tiny act. Nothing else.

Would you be willing to try that?

[twinmom]

Jefe, I need to respond to you but haven't the time right now to do so properly.

A good head shaking..... The ex-OW is pregnant (nope not H's) she moved on rather quickly!! He has to see her once a month at district meetings and at January's she announced she was pregnant and is sporting a small bump. There was no meeting in December and H said she didn't look pregnant for November's.... He doesn't know when she is due.

I feel sorry for her older boys who have men in/out of their lives quickly.....

I asked H how he felt about this and he said he didn't care, he said seeing her didn't bring up any feelings.



25yrs something you said about love not being wrapped the way I want it REALLY got me thinking.... I need to blog about this later.

Maybe OW will sell her house and move somewhere else with baby daddy (whoever he is) and she won't live down the street from me anymore! I could only hope!

I think what bothers me is that H thought of her as a good mother but said I was not (which he has since said isn't true, he was just angry at me and compliments me to everyone all the time) BUT the hurt over that being said is something I just can't get past.

[Train]

Oh, sweetie. I feel your pain on that one. But you have to *decide* to move past what H said to you, and about you, while he was cheating.

You know it wasn't true. Holding onto it only hurts YOU.

And, fwiw, H and I had a discussion about this just last weekend. He said essentially this (all, btw, which we here already know, but it's good to hear it from the mouth of a XWAS, especially one who doesn't read the literature enough to know what it all says about how a WAS operates; in other words, these are H's own thoughts, uninfluenced by any literature on this subject):

Waywards in As are typically not "in love" with their A partners. At least not at first. They're in love with how the A partner makes them feel about THEMSELVES. Eventually, once the AP has stroked their ego for so long, the LBS looks worse and worse. Anger and resentment build and grow. Still, the WAS knows what s/he is doing is wrong. So they say mean, unfair - and outright UNTRUTHFUL - things to and about their LBS in an effort to ... here's the money shot ... make THEMSELVES look better for doing what they're doing.

What your H said had nothing to do with you, sweetie. So decide that you will move past it for YOU.

I'm no saint over here. I struggle with harboring anger toward my H for the things he said to and about me, too. But it's actually not the content of what he said that bothers me. It's that HE said it.

Big hugs.

[twinmom]

Thanks train. I needed to hear that.
I used to feel so powerful before I met H. I used to feel like it didn't matter what other people thought.

I have become so meek and influenced by others perceptions of me. I struggle trying to find my inner "bi!#h" and some attitude.

I need to get back to exercising, I think that REALLY helped and I still have so much weight to lose.

25yrs, I get what you are saying about love. He does loving things for me all the time. If my love language were acts of service my love bank would be running over.
My love language is physical touch and he NEVER touches me anymore. So I am miserable because I crave the physical touch and don't get it but logically know that he loves me in some way because of all the things he does for me.

[twinmom]

Ok, some things on paper so I can "think out loud"

Things H does
..brings me coffee even when I don't ask for it
..takes care of the kids and lets me sleep in
..tells me to go take a hot bath/run errands on my own and he will put the kids to bed
..starts my car if I am taking the boys to school
..does laundry, sweeps, loads dishwasher, irons
..gives me a kiss goodbye every morning
..rubs my back BUT only when asked, NEVER does he initiate touching me anytime other than the goodbye kiss




Things that are huge issues for me
..no physical touching, he doesn't physically pursue me
..no compliments, he hasn't told me I am pretty, beautiful, sexy in 2 years
..not fully transparent, won't give up the code to his phone
..doesn't say I love you


Things that are different than before (his attempts at trying?????????
..calls me/texts me when he is going to be even a few minutes late
..tells me about meetings, where and when
..talks to me about his day, who he works with and what is going on at work.

[Jefe]

Twin, I haven't read up or been following along enough to completely understand your current situation, so I may be talking out of turn. But here goes:

Things H does
..brings me coffee even when I don't ask for it
..takes care of the kids and lets me sleep in
..tells me to go take a hot bath/run errands on my own and he will put the kids to bed
..starts my car if I am taking the boys to school
..does laundry, sweeps, loads dishwasher, irons
..gives me a kiss goodbye every morning
..rubs my back BUT only when asked, NEVER does he initiate touching me anytime other than the goodbye kiss

^^^ Positively re-enforce all of this, and quickly. Don't add any "but"s or caveats or tag the end of a positive with a negative add-on. When he does something you like or makes you feel loved, respond in kind quickly.

Things that are different than before (his attempts at trying?????????)
..calls me/texts me when he is going to be even a few minutes late
..tells me about meetings, where and when
..talks to me about his day, who he works with and what is going on at work.

Good stuff here. This is not an attempt, this is getting it done. From a man's perspective this is pretty important.
I presume he's doing this w/o being asked to do so?

Things that are huge issues for me
..no physical touching, he doesn't physically pursue me
..no compliments, he hasn't told me I am pretty, beautiful, sexy in 2 years
..not fully transparent, won't give up the code to his phone
..doesn't say I love you

I would have issues with these things too. The phone code issue is what is jumping out at me right now, but I would not immediately assume it "means" something other than he may resent the fact he is being asked to do it. But this is the bed he made.
Does he say "I love you" back when you say it first, or not at all? How were the compliments, pretty, sexy, etc, earlier in the marriage? Is this an anomaly or has he always struggled with pursuing you and complimenting you?
Before you guys got married who pursued who to start the relationship?

And, Twin, I don't think you need to "find" your inner bit¢h. I happen to know first hand you can find it when needed. You'll attract more flies with honey. That being said, you do need to set kind and loving boundaries, everywhere in life. Don't people please, bust don't be a bit¢h either. Just my 2¢.

[twinmom]

Jefe, when we first started dating he pursued me. Like insane crazy! (Too bad he was married and I didn't know it)

He would tell me I was beautiful and sexy and literally be ALL OVER me 24/7 and if I forgot to say "I love you" when ending a phone conversation he would be upset.

He used to be "vocal"in bed, telling me how amazing I was and that it had never felt so good before..... After the twins that stopped. He will day I love you too, if I say it first but I don't say it anymore.

I don't ask him to call/text me when he is going to be late but I have had a conversation months ago where I said that during our marriage I would have complained a lot less about him being late if he would just take two seconds and text me.

My personal opinion is he has an addiction problem (pea love addiction)
This is affair #5 in his life (not during our marriage)
He has a family history of drug/alcohol addiction, that is why he has never even had a drop of alcohol. He previously had a gambling problem but has not gone to a casino in over 5 years.
He won't admit this/get help so I am just waiting for another affair.......

[Jefe]

Honestly, that is not what I expected you to say. But it definitely sheds some light on things.

I would probably agree with your addiction theory in part. I think he is addicted to the initial "In Love/passionate" phase of a relationship but when reality sets in (Hi honey, here are some twins to care for and raise) it stops being passionate and starts being work.

Question, how's his maturity level in other areas of his life?

[twinmom]

Jefe, during his first marriage he had two affairs. My relationship being the second. During the first affair he told his wife (after 4 years of marriage) he was leaving her for another woman. He "came to his senses 3 days later"

He was with his ex wife for 14 years, married for 8 years. They didn't have any kids. They had been trying for a while without success. Side note, his ex wife is remarried and very happy, still without kids though so I think it's a fertility issue with her :-(

He is the oldest of 5 boys and in every other area very mature. He is driven at work and constantly looks to succeed. He is EXTREMELY competitive. Beyond loves sports, as in he runs 2 fantasy football leagues, constantly watches certain teams and reads everything he possibly can about the players and coaches. He knows so much about his favorite teams (Duke basketball, Notre Dame football, Cubs, Bears and Payton Manning)

He is the only one of his brothers to have a college degree. Besides previously not giving a sh!# about his kids growing up in the "traditional" sense of the term haiku he is an excellent father. He always puts their needs first and is very mature and responsible.

I know years ago he had a gambling problem and had to file bankruptcy. He seems to have learned his lesson and ever since I met him he is very responsible and mature regarding financials.

He is conflict avoident to an extreme.