Calibri (3)

[Calibri]

Last thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2527232&page=1

I don't even have it in me for a witty title.

I haven't been around. Partially because I've been thinking. Partially because things were getting better with H. He had been reaching out more, initiating conversations. We had a couple of heart to hearts which resulted in us agreeing to go back to therapy to learn how to communicate with one another, him admitting he was severely depressed but actively working on it, having several break throughs in therapy, and lately he committed to "let's try and figure this out." Oh, and he told me that he thought we had a pretty decent shot at working out should he be able to, "get his head on straight." We both and notice behavior changes in each other and new as commenting on it, etc. sounds promising right?

Yeah. Then today happened.

I'm in a huge, important meeting at work - when a friend (not a close friend) but a friend none the less texts me and says that my H has a profile on Tinder. I immediately want to throw up. She sends me a screen shot of the profile. Yep. It's him. Active the day after his declaration of, "let's try and figure things out." No chance of being a fake profile, has things in there only he would know. I get out of work, call H and calmly ask him if he has been online dating. He expressed shock, "no I wouldn't do that, I don't want anyone in my life except you, I'm working on my marriage, blah blah blah." I tell him what I find out. Ask for honesty. He' still denies. This pisses him off because he wouldn't so anything like that. Keeps on going about how he wouldn't do that, and thine later on as I listen to him ramble, it changed to "I'm was in a really dark place for awhile, I don't know what I could have done in the middle of my depression." Long story short, he comes over to the house, still denying he was on there. I ask to check his phone. He willingly hands it over.

Of course the app is deleted. But then he went too far, he had deleted all his text messages. I asked why. "Oh, I didn't want you to see what my mom has been saying. You know how she gets." Right. Then I show him the screen shot on my phone. He finally fesses up. Doesn't have a reason why he was on there. Claims he didn't rate any girls, doesn't know why he was on there, it was stupid. Blah blah blah. Then I get into his facebook. Check the messenger I see a name I don't recognize. I ask who is x? And he immediately freaks out and starts going for his phone. I fend him off and read the messages. He said it was nice to meet her. Here is his phone number in case she wants to chat, he's ends her a voice message. She sends one back. (Both are BS. Nothing flirty, but still messages). He sends a message that he could, "listen to that voice all day." She responds with a smiley face. He sends her pictures of his view on Christmas Eve. The same day where he's telling me everything is confusing and how he's sorry for how things are, he's trying to engage in conversation with this woman. She doesn't really engage back, aside from a smiley face and what not. Their last conversation was New Year's Eve. I ask how he met her, she was the bartender at his company party. They started talking and somehow got on the subject of being married and how they both were having marriage problems and how he just wanted someone to talk to that was going through the same thing.

Right.

So now that he's been caught, he's changed his tune to, "I want to want to be married but I can't do the work. I thought if we talked and went to a therapist it would get better and we could work it out." And some more stuff about how unhappy he was, and how he's depressed and he's ok with walking away because he doesn't want to hurt me and blah blah. And then later it changed to, "it's obvious I'm [censored] up in the head, I've got a lot of growing up to do, but I do want to go to counseling, I do want to see if this can work out, I do think if I can get my [censored] together we can work out. Claims he felt said he didn't want to work on it because he felt cornered. Said he lied about the tender thing because he was scared to be honest with me.

Now he's all, "let's talk tomorrow, I do want this to work out". Multiple apologies for "doing stupid things". Has deleted the app of his phone and unfriended the girl on Facebook without prompting.

Honestly? I can't even. The whole thing toes the line really closely for a deal breaker for me which is any kind of affair, emotional or physical. I am humiliated that while he was engaging me in R talks and "trying to work things out" he was on a stupid dating site. I'm humiliated that my friend saw and brought it to my attention. I feel betrayed. I don't know how I can trust anything he says. I don't know if I could. I feel stupid, because I thought we were getting better. I thought we were making small steps and we might make some progress. I feel like I've been played.

I wish I had never known. And now I do, and my whole world is upside down. Again.

My M is most likely over. And I feel like I have egg all over my face.

[TLEE86]

Breathe

Regroup

Breathe...

I am so sorry for this latest development in your sitch. I agree, there is no excuse for an A, EA or PA. My question to you is, can you still be with or want to work on M with H after finding this out?

You said the deal breaker for you is any kind of A, EA or PA. You've read some of his messenger messages, but did not see his texts. If, and I don't suggest you try, you find out there were more flirty messages, does this mean you won't work on the M anymore? What constitutes an EA to you?

I'm like you, I never thought I'd tolerate any kind of A, now my W is in an EA she denies...and..you know the rest. But you'd be surprised what you can put up with...

I would suggest you not talk to H for 24-48hours about this...your own rule. Let yourself calm down befor you say something you don't mean, let him think things out as well. I feel you would lose your [censored] if you tried talking to him now.

Breathe. Ask yourself where you really draw the line, an what this means for you.

[gan]

Hi Calibri, I've been wondering how things were with you. Sorry to read this update. I suspect Maybell will be along soon to commiserate (her H was also on Tinder).

I agree with TLEE. I think it is important that you give this some time to process. You don't need to make a decision right now. Sit with it and see how you feel in a few days or couple of weeks even.

I used to think these things would be a deal breaker but now I'm not so sure, particulalry having read stories here.

(((Calibri)))

[Sotto]

Hi Calibri, so sorry to read this update. Your sitch reminded me of a chapter I recently read in MHDLMAHTSE (Andrew G Marshall.)

The chapter was about H's saying one thing "I want to work on our M" and doing something else "online dating." - and then not being able to explain why, but saying he loves you etc. He says there are 6 reasons why H's behaviour makes no sense.

1) He doesn't have the 'tools' - Men are brought up to 'act' rather than 'examine their feelings.' And so feelings are often suppressed, denied. Ideally men need to listen to their feelings and work out the complex brew of emotions within. But, rather than do this, many either walk away, medicate or just get angry. (so I think the gist is he can't explain why, because he may not really know.)

2) He's lying to himself. A's cause lies - to your partner, and often to yourself. If your H is routinely lying to himself (and you and possibly an AP) how can he begin to know what he wants.

3) He's a people pleaser. He'll go to great lengths to make others happy and avoid conflict. Thereby denying his own needs, and not being kind or considerate to himself. So, whilst he might agree to have NC with other women, he's susceptible to contact from them, which leads to a cup of coffee, etc, etc.

4) Modern technology - it's easy to type first and think second. Much easier to get 'thrills, affirmation etc' remotely/electronically than if you had to go out to the phone box on a freezing January evening - or work hard to rebuild your M.

5) Shame - It's a toxic emotion and we'll do almost anything to avoid it (different to guilt, where you acknowledge you shouldn't have done something and make amends. Guilt is about the behaviour, shame is about your persona.) Shame can lead you to feel you are unlovable, so we try and avoid it with 3 tactics - justifying ourselves (I was only looking...), attacking (you shouldn't check up on me) and closing down (to block it out.) So, what do H's do? Go online to flirt with women and prove that he isn't unlovable.

6) Fear - H's are dealing with multiple, overlapping and competing fears. Frightened of being depressed, losing you, alienating kids, critical parents, missing out on 'saviour' OW, being able to pay bills etc. Why not just face the fear? Read back over point 1 here. When someone is frightened of making a mistake, they try to keep their options open - kick the can further down the road, hoping something will change or feelings may become clearer.

I have found the AGM books to be helpful alongside MWD's. His approach is very similar to what MWD recommends. There is also some advice on how to combat the above, so if you are interested, let me know and I'll post further.

Toots x

[Calibri]

So he texted me this morning. Told me how sorry and ashamed he was of his behaviors, and how sorry he was to hurt me. That he had contacted his therapist to try and get an emergency appointment. That he hasn't broken his old habits of lying and people pleasing and that basically -- and how he doesn't know if he wants to work on the marriage or not, because "sometimes I don't want to, sometimes I do, But I don't know if its because of my habit of trying to make people happy or because of my own stuff. That's why I'm trying to get ahold of my therapist. Best way I can explain, I knew that you wanted to reconcile and I didn't see another response. I needed to buy time to regain my composure. I didn't lie to you completely, there were times where I wanted to talk and see you."

This is the second time that he's done this to me since BD. This, "I want to work on things" and then he pulls back and admits that it's not what he wants. Or that he doesn't know what he wants. That he's just people pleasing. And when he started this within the last month, I asked him if this was what he wanted, because I knew he had a tendency to people please and was he sure. Oh yes, he said.

What's the saying -- shame on you if you fool me once, shame on me if you fool me twice?

I understand that he's in a bad place. His new job isn't what he thought it would be and he's stressed out. He didn't get his promotion and raise like he thought he would, because the bosses told them he lacked confidence in his work. He's lost. He's depressed. Everything is hard for him right now. He's angry and hurt about everything and everyone. He thinks his existence has only hurt everyone around him. But at what point in time does a bad situation excuse inappropriate behavior?

When he moved out, he said he didn't want to see other people. That he had no interest in dating or talking to other women. That he didn't have his head on straight. Never in a million years did I think he would do something like this. He knew that was my line. My point of no return. And he did it anyway.

He lacks integrity. He lacks confidence. He lacks the basic tools to deal with hard [censored] in his life. And he continues to lie. To himself. To others.

Unbelievable.

[Calibri]

T-I don't know if I can be with him after finding out what I did. Had he not lied about it? Maybe. But he lied. He covered his tracks, and not very well. And now with his latest revelation that his behaviors may or may not have been people pleasing? No.

We agreed when he left that we wouldn't talk to other people, we wouldn't date others. He was adamant about that. To find out that he met another woman, had conversations with her, flirted with her. While telling me he was lost, and didn't know what he wanted. To be on a dating website. That's not the character of someone I want to be with. Do I think what he did was an EA? No. I think it was stupid behavior. But I also think it's behavior that leads down a path that I cannot come back from.

Ganb8te - I am thinking about things. But with this mornings latest omission - the whole, people pleasing thing -- enough it enough. I need to get my ducks in a row, because he may never come back from this -- and I can't be caught flat footed waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Toots - I think you hit the nail on the head with your post. He's got a lot of [censored] to work on. And I respect that. But I also respect myself alot more, knowing that I need to completely remove myself from a situation that's not healthy for me.

[raliced]

Hey Calibiri-

I'm not speaking from personal experience here - because in my circumstance I had the BD, OW revelation and Separation all in one cr**py afternoon.

But I've seen 7 or 8 posters go through the revelation that you are experiencing and there is a silver lining and it looks like you have already discovered it.

That silver lining is a certain amount of clarity. It gives you better insight into what has really been happening and what you have been dealing with. And I think it really reinforces the notion that you have to let them go on their own journey and figure their own heads out.

Hang in there!

[Calibri]

Well. He talked to his therapist. His therapist said we have issues communicating and that we shouldn't talk unless their was a mediator present. H's therapist told him that before and he thought it was malarkey. Interesting now how he wants to follow it when he got caught doing things he shouldn't.

H sent me a text message basically saying he wasn't going to talk to me without a mediator, but he was open to us going to therapy to "see if we could sort ourselves out." He is refusing to even acknowledge me in any sorts of communication. I got a "I know this isn't fair, but this is my boundary and I'm enforcing it."

He's suddenly all about his boundaries, but my boundary of not talking to other people while we were married and separated? Well, apparently boundaries can be picked and chosen to suit around here. I am deeply hurt that he is refusing to speak to me. My world gets blown up, again, and then I get left out in the dark.

I am flabbergasted. How does one go from wanting to work it out, to getting caught, to all this?

I'm being played. Played by someone who doesn't know what they want. Played by someone who is so deeply embedded in their own sorrow amd problems. Someone who continues to lie to me. Someone who blames me for their problems.

I'm in a rock and a hard place. I feel like I should file for legal separation so I can protect my assists and assure that I am protected. H doesn't have a pot to piss in, but I do. I don't want to be responsible for anything he might do. I know however, if I file, H won't work on anything.

But on the other hand, I don't want to be divorced. I love this man with everything that I have and then some. But I can't be married to the person he is right now. I don't think that he knows what he wants. I don't think he may ever know what he wants. I think he wants me to be the bad person and pull the trigger. I think he wants to be set free so he doesn't have to feel obligated to work on anything.

I do not know if I can come back from this. And I know, compared to other people on here, what I'm going through is small, small potatoes. The lying, the bs, it's all too much.

I thought we were making small steps. I thought we had a shot. I was open to seeing how this might play out.

I am such a fool. Such a damn fool.

[gan]

H sent me a text message basically saying he wasn't going to talk to me without a mediator, but he was open to us going to therapy to "see if we could sort ourselves out."

...

But on the other hand, I don't want to be divorced. I love this man with everything that I have and then some. But I can't be married to the person he is right now.

...

I do not know if I can come back from this. And I know, compared to other people on here, what I'm going through is small, small potatoes. The lying, the bs, it's all too much.

Hey Calibri, I know you were just venting here but there were some pretty interesting things in there. He says he's open to you going to therapy. Does he mean together? I think that is pretty good option, no? You say you don't want to be divorced. Have you dug deep on that? Is it fear, ego, genuine love for your H? The answer to that should guide your actions. I don't think you're dealing with small potatoes at all. At least I know it doesn't feel that way to you. We're all here because we stand to lose the same thing (our marriages). The details are different, but in the end we're all trying to figure out what to do with the same potato.

I was out with a group of single friends last night and thought of you. They we talking about the dating scene and how all the guys were on both eHarmony and Tinder. I guess I had the wrong impression about Tinder. Here at least it seems to be used as just another dating site. It was a pretty enlightening conversation that definitely makes be want my M to work out!

[Calibri]

And in shocking news. He had his parents call me to tell me he wanted a divorce. How he's going to have me served. All via his parents who were so smug about it.

Un believable. Absolutely unbelievable.