Searching for Answers

[Panthr]

Hello all,

You all are my saving grace. It is great pain that I find myself writing on this forum, however I am amazed by all if the wonderful helpful people here on the DB forum. I have been a lurker for the past few months and have gained a lot of valuable insight, however I think I need a little more daily or weekly affirmation of my actions and plans. I have had a few sessions with DB coach Chuck and they have been helpful but throughout the week too many things come up and I need to find ways to proceed or maybe just vent. So any insight would be appreciated. I do love my wife, love my family and I know want my marriage to work not only for me, us, but also my boys. So sorry that it is so long. Thank you.

**There are so many things going on here with miy sitch --WAS, MLC, possible undiagnosed BPD/NPD --I'm at wit's end.

Summer ‘ 14
This is where it seems things went down rapidly hill. My wife is a teacher and she has summer off with the boys. I know little boys can be difficult especially at their ages, however she would constantly tell me how difficult it was being home with them. We had moved further away from the city last fall at the time, so there were less options that she explored with the kids. Sensing the frustrating, UI certainly encouraged her to go out visit friends. I have always done a good job of maintaining house while being an attentive father – definitely 50/50 if not more. I realize that through the years we had neglected each other, however we never really had much of a support system. She wasn’t very comfortable allowing others to watch the kids, only relying on her mother who is nearly 70 years old. Although cordial with my family(sister), she somewhat alienated her over the years. So in reality there were few if not any time to go out. I remember in the past year before, we had her mother watch the boys, we went out for a few hours. That’s literally once in nearly 2+ years.

Anyways, although I am in sales, she is more social and I understand her need to be social butterfly. have always had trust…always! So she would go out with her old sorority sisters or teacher friends. My friends are soccer dads, who have spent their time partying it up when they were younger and now are solid people. Her friends are a mix of happily married (sorority sisters) and teacher friends (divorcees, partiers, cheaters, not bad people --- just a dysfunctional bunch). This summer she expressed to me some things she was unhappy with including our sex life also how we were leading separate lives. We had conversations about physical intimacy in the past from time to time, but didn’t change much between us. I agreed with her. I would work all day then come home play with kids, talk with my wife, do yard work , work on house (finishing basement) and after the kids were in bed I would retreat upstairs for down time. She would do the same, stay downstairs –watch TV, text and Facebook incessantly. So she approached me in June and said that she was unhappy and I told her that I was also ( I hadn’t told her that before). Although I had been extremely frustrated over the years, previously I had not said anything. I wasn’t necessarily happy in the relationship and probably would have been a walkaway husband if kids weren’t involved. She wanted more physical and I told her I did too. I also told her that I wanted to do things couples would do –holds hands , put a hand on your back, get back to saying ILY --- just your normal touch even throughout the day. She wanted me to hang downstairs and watch TV with her. I held up my end the bargain and hung out downstairs with her, but we’d sit on separate couches and the texting and addiction to FB became unbearable, so we retreated to what we always did’ me upstairs, her downstairs.

The most recent conversation before that was back in June ’13. I admitted that I was in a funk and I would make an effort and I did. In reality, looking back at the relationship, I was pretty resentful of how she treated me (silent treatments for days over little arguments, never apologizing for anything, never any nice gestures or compliments put downs, walking on eggshells, immune to any criticism etc.). She never initiated intimacy after marriage , either overtly or subtly –very selfish as a lover. In 7+ years together, she never even provided me a backrub ( I would comply anytime for the longest time until I became frustrated)–stuff that normal couples do, did nothing to promote a sexual /atmosphere and rarely if ever initiated sex. A note on the backrub, she wasn’t asking for a backrub where it would could turn into intimacy, it would be more so at her mother’s house or a time when intimacy wasn’t possible. So from June ’13 on I made sure that I was the one who initiated sex. Over the next year plus, I initiated sex 18 times (I know, I kept count…..sorry). Probably, we consummated the relationship 12 times over that time. Sex was very mechanical with her. Nothing really outside of missionary and there are reasons I have come to find out later. I definitely see what part I played in all of this. I didn’t make my wife a priority ---- I can admit that. The frustrating part is that she never made me a priority either.

So this fall, I noticed she was very short with the kids and was going out more often, and staying out later than a married woman should –but I still trusted her. I gave to green light to this because she said it was difficult staying home with the boys and she previously had chosen to keep the boys in their old daycare before we moved, so the commute was taxing and she seemed stressed. I let her know if that she wanted to do so, that is fine we would just move the boys into new daycare in August and I’d get them ready in morning and take them. We agreed. So, sometime I’d say on August she moved into the spare bedroom –saying that she wasn’t sleeping well, plus there was a problem with the ceiling fan in or BR that it stayed on so it was chilly. At this time, I was ambivalent to it all. Frustrated with her as she was with me.

So as September came and she was in the throes of going back to work, under somewhat more stress because it was a new position. Since we moved her commute was now about 15 minutes longer. As was the plan, I’d get the kids up and ready in the morning and take them to daycare so she could have a stress free morning. In the meantime, I found myself doing more around the house to compensate what she wasn’t doing and spending even more time with by boys because she would be engrossed with her phone from the minute she got home until the kids were in bed. We’d function normally throughout the day but would fall back into our same routines –my frustration grew even more.

Bomb Dropped : 11/2/14
We had been going through the motions for the past two months and when in early October, she said to me while I was out with the kids in the neighborhood “Hey my teacher (female)friend at work asked if we wanted to go away the last weekend in October to a college football game a few hrs. away – leave Friday, come back Sunday”. She knew that we didn’t have anybody to watch boys that weekend so we both couldn’t go –bummer. So I said yes, go ahead. I knew her friend and didn’t think anything of it and I knew the others going. It was me continuing being supportive. Anyways after trick or treating she left –no ILYS or hugs. I think she texted one time that whole weekend asking about the boys –otherwise we didn’t hear from her. I called her on Sunday morning asking when she would return because I was invited to football game that night and needed to leave by 5:30. She didn’t return till after that. I was mad and frustrating. I laid low the next day. Didn’t talk to her. On Tuesday, she was acting weird, parked herself in other room. I asked her “what’s wrong?” and “are you having affair?” She asked me the same which is funny because I’m so busy, I don’t have time for much of anything. Anyways big argument, said that she doesn’t love me “that way” any more. Wants to get through next couple months. I didn’t beg or plead but reiterated love for her and how important marriage to our kids, etc. A few days later she lied about a work function and stayed overnight. This is when I found the DB website and began implementing my 180’s and many of the Sandi2’s 37 rules and even reached out a DB coach

Aftermath
A few days later I was snooping in her purse and found that she had what I thought was a consultation for a labiaplasty and breast enhancement. Shocked beyond belief. We had talked about breast implants (kids wrecked her breasts) and going for a consultation even though I told her she didn’t need them. She was beautiful just as she was. I became more suspicious in the following weeks –something I never had been in the past, so I purchased a GPS bumped up the snooping. The next week, I came home from work and she was walking with difficulty and I called her out –she indeed had had the first surgery. We had an argument, she admitted that she had a “friend” and that was who she went away with for the football weekend (later would find out that she went). She said that he was a fellow teacher and she has known him for years and didn’t see him much but they talked and she had feelings. Trying to follow DB principles, didn’t ask details. Just asked if it was physical and she said it was not –especially with her not feeling comfortable with her body down there. At time I believed her. She explained some insecurities to me, we talked for a few hours –I didn’t push anything more about EA. Over the next week things went well, we talked, stills separate rooms. She confided in me about her surgery, looking for comfort when she asked questions about the surgery. I felt like this was a good thing –after all I’ve been there to quell her concerns and make sure I did even more to help with kids while she recovered. I never questioned about the money needed for surgery –wasn’t the time. The GPS was both a good thing and a bad thing. It was tough watching her drive to his house, even though it may not have been physical at the time. In the meantime, she had become more distant from kids –boys definitely clung to me and I picked up the slack. I’m putting kids to bed, hanging with them, while she buries herself in bedroom texting.

November
Mid November lied about going out with girlfriend after work> She went to the local casino. When my wife usually is up to no good or has lied, she becomes somewhat over the top with the kids. Applying extras amounts of intention as if she is being videotaped. This frustrated the hell out of me because I’m steady and genuine with them all of the time. So a typical evening includes her texting or on phone, me playing with boys, me getting them ready for bed and then me staying downstairs and my wife heading upstairs. Opposite of what we used to do. By this time she also has been taking ring off at times, usually when she is at home. (game playing). Our anniversary was in November and I struggled what to do ---I did nothing. Just opened the door to the spare bedroom at end of night and said BTW, Happy Anniversary…nothing else . Week of Thanksgiving still distance but some talking. Bothersome to me she referred to the spare bedroom as “mommy’s room” in front of kids and soon thereafter began the manic dance with the kids –over r the top with them again. She went into one of her classic silent treatments that can last for a few hours to days, and now weeks. She had poisoned her purse in such way to see if I was snooping which I was ----she was mad that I was snooping on her even though it’s okay to spend weekend with OM. I kept my cool and didn’t let on I knew where she had been through GPS. We argued and she darted down to OM’s house for comfort. In the meantime, I figured out the address and through some investigative work figured out name of OM. He is a widower of three years so its nit like he has a wife that I call and let know what’s going on. Thanksgiving came and we spent it at my aunt’s house. Paranoid about my family knowing She was biting her nails, drinking a little bit too much –telling my family she was going to go black Friday shopping. Got home, got kids ready for bed, and she darted over to his house. Out of frustration, I texted her the name of affair partner –she only responded “?????”. I didn’t answer she came home. No discussion, next day –she told boys she was going out with her girlfriend –she didn’t come home that night. Only came home when I texted her mom and asked her if she knew where wife was. She was cordial the weekend, asked if we all wanted to go to mall, grab something to eat. She dressed as if she was depressed –hadn’t washed hair in a week. As were getting along, told me about second surgery for breast implants. –once gain I didn’t question. Just tried to be supportive.

Early December
She came home in foul mood –asked her what was wrong especially considering we had been somewhat getting along> She said that she was upset mad because her sister who lives out of state wasn’t supportive of her decision for breast implants. I agreed and told her sister should be more supportive and her sister questioned her why she didn’t come home one night previous weekend. She told me she told her sister she was drinking too much. As soon as she told me that she painted me black –went into her silent treatment and was overly manic with the kids—over the top communicating with them and playing with them –never had been so demonstrative with them. So the silent treatment continued until I got a text day before her surgery saying “ I don’t have to go with her”. She ended up telling her mother about surgery. She continues to hid purse, car keys, etc. She had her surgery –I texted her and her mother making sure she was okay –no response from wife. Here mom stayed for a few days and few days later we both took kids to see Santa at the daycare. We were with them as parallels. Not talking to me, but when were there she gravitated to my son’s buddies mother who happens to be divorced. Wife picked her brain --I didn’t know you were divorced she –trying to almost pick their brain ---I wanted to crawl in a hole –worst nightmare imagined. So we are going on a week of silent treatment. Noticed on GPS that she did visit a lawyer for consultation. What I had been doing obviously wasn’t working. Visited friend that evening to get new perspective –suggested I try something different against DB principles. Told her I love her before bed (no response) and made her coffee next morning. Actually sent text thanking me. That day we had a good conversation via text about her job –I was very complimentary—she seemed to appreciate. Seemed to get along for a while –still in other room –talked about xmas –good stuff. Aside from being in other room, excusing self-early to bed, being no helpful with kids or around house, we actually got along. The whole time, I’m her confident on how she feels after surgery 0—“am I going to be okay” , how happy she is that she had them now.

Late December
A few days before Xmas I saw a marriage counselor, said that I have to call her out on seeing the OM. It was eating me up inside especially since I know she saw the OM to watch the . So we finished wrapping presents, let her know I love her but that I know she is still seeing the OM. She never admitted or denied. I never raised my voice, never do. Went to bed without saying anything else. A few days pass after silent treatment we begin to talk in preparation for mass. Appositive sign is she asked me to go out of state to visit her aunt and uncle -----I agreed )normally wouldn’t want to go. Christmas came and went –nice time, though still distant. My big concern was New Years. Would she go out with OM? She approached me and asked me if I wanted to go over her friend’s house, I was like “sure” –so we tentatively had plans for New Year’s now –tentatively. So we got along pretty well once I called her out on the EA again. I was feeling good..

January
Well this is where things turn bad. She found the GPS. The GPS showed that she wasn’t lying where she was. Wouldn’t you know she found GPS (it wasn’t working anymore and she was acting weird) ---and I got the silent treatment again. She knows now that I know that she had been lying to me all along --- yet she is giving me silent treatment t. I asked her if we still had plans for New years for her friend on NYE and she said she hadn’t heard from her friend. Never heard from her the next day so did my own thing. I texted her ion NYE and asked where she was –she said in one word her friend's name (who happens to be school blabbermouth and she wasn't wearing rings) She didn’t ask me to come over so I just spend NYE at friend’s pizza shop. I texted her that I missed my family and I’m sad and disappointed that I was not spending NYE with them. She continued silent treatment for a few more days.

I spoke with DB coach, Chuck and he suggested I just come clean –explained that I regret doing it however needed to conform some things when I felt that she wasn’t telling truth , life is too short, I have better things to do with my time and it has stopped didn’t apologize because I’ve always been the one to apologize> She continued the silent treatment for another two weeks only to be interrupted by an accusation that I broke her mouth guard for grinding her teeth. (She did this in front of the boys and two of their friends)> what is bothersome is that this mouth guard was snapped in half and it is obvious she did it herself but accused me of it> I rarely raise my voice and certainly would never do something like that> I was angry and said “do not accuse me of that”. She said she wasn't accusing “but asking”. So anyways, she had not been wearing her wedding ring since 12/31. She went back to school (teacher) and did not wear her wedding rings –bothersome to me because now it’s for show. –its passive aggressive and she wants people to now question. Other observations, she’s still commenting on my friend’s FB posts or “Liking “ them.

Week 1/12
So on Monday, after no contact for 2 weeks, she had picked up kids at daycare without telling me for second day in row. I was mad, so I texted her to let me know ahead of time. She stated she picks them up primarily (she does not). She we got into a pissing contest on text. When she came home she was madder than I have ever seen her. Asked me to come into another room and said this is definitely not working out “we need to divorce” I’ll send you a website so we can do a collaborative divorce. The irony is that we have not done much collaboratively at all. I really think her actions inactions with kids past few months makes her want to avoid traditional divorce. Anyways, big argument for next hour and then things settled won talked normally –no further talk about divorce after I didn’t say I would agree. Got some things off my chest ---she rehashed same arguments –most of them from years ago. She was sitting with my youngest which has been rare and seemed like the normal good parent that she always had been in the past before this all started. I did ask her “what do people say at work about you not wearing wedding rings” . She said that they don’t notice, so busy at work. I let it go. Obviously, you can hate me and the relationship and still wear your rings. Not wearing them is petty and passive aggressive. Throughout course of argument, it seems like she resents some of my 180s which I assume is a good thing –means she notices, right? We put kids to bed and actually said good night top each other when I ‘m always the initiator since this started.

Next few days , things have been pretty good. Still not wearing wedding rings, however we are talking even if it’s mostly about kids> She still retreats to spare bedroom. On Tuesday she went out with S5 to get a birthday present for his friend and before she left she asked me if I wanted a coffee…..this floored me because she hasn’t done anything , bought me anything, or done anything nice for a very long time. Yesterday, she had a meeting after work. I picked up boys from daycare and they wanted to go out to eat. Texted her and let her know we are going out to eat, if she wanted to join us. She did surprisingly. I made sure I was sucking down a beer when she got there (my 180). Some people’s 180 is to drink less, mine id to drink more.  we said good night last few days and good morning. She actually read the kids a book last night and was very happy that she seems to have been an involved parent once gain –albeit if its temporarily.

I am having so much difficulty accepting that she is not wearing her wedding rings. She is someone that has the need to save face and not be wrong so I fear her pride prevents her for putting them back on. Next week she has a dinner date with her sorority sisters /the pro-marriage ones in my opinion. It will be interesting if she wears them when out with them.


Thanks everybody for reading. I appreciate it!

[Cadet]

Welcome to the board

Since you have been here a few months
I wont post my normal welcome post as I am sure
you have seen that.

Please focus on YOU.

Knowledge is Power.

[Panthr]

So, I hope to take the advice of the forum and use it as a way to document some feeling and situations. Was going to be a little mysterious and text her letting her know I was going to happen hour. She beat me to the punch. Asking me to pickup the kids from daycare because a "few of work people are goping to happy hour for co-worker's bday" "You would save me a BIG trip. LMK. Thx"

Gotta keep cool and somewhat detached. I responded "NP, I'll pick them up and take and drop them off for their playdate. Have fun." I didn't ask where, what time, with who, etc. Problem I face is I have friends who believe that she uis my wife, I should demand where she is going. Had to explain it doesn't work when you'rethis far into my situation.

[Panthr]

Thanks Cadet. I have seen them all and all of your names are familiar to me. Now I don't remember the details of all of the stories as they sort of blend together, but I have read yours.

I've been trying to focus on me. It's tough with two little ones as they have been my focus espacially since the wife has been detached from not only me, but them also.

[sandi2]

Her not wearing the rings is the least of your problems. Has anything been done toward the D process?

[Panthr]

Hi Sandi,

Thanks for reading my post. :-)

I agree with you, it's such an outward open sign and I guess that is what is so bothersome. This weekend, I really tried to not let it bother me. We got along really well this weekend, even went to a family birthday party (on my side) but no rings. Wasn;t sure if she was looking for a reaction --if she was, I didn't take the bait. All in all, aside from all the background bs, it was a good weekend.

Nothing towards the D process yet. I do know that back in early December after a week of her giving me the silent treatment, she had a consultation I believe. And the only other time "D" was brought up was last Monday when she was raging and after things settled down, it hasn't been brought up again. The rest of the week was fairly normal. I guess my fear is without the rings, she is "normalizing" this to others now if that makes sense.

[sandi2]

In her mind, the M is over. She has someone else, so why wear rings that have no meaning to her? Maybe that is the statement she's making.......but as I have said, the rings are the very least of your problems. Somehow, you see security in her wearing them......and it is disturbing seeing her without them. Stop obsessing over this and start looking at what you can do about your life.

The fact the two of you have gotten along better does not mean she is having second thoughts. A woman will continue to have an A and attend family events, that is common to see. As long as you act fine with being her friend, then things continue as such.

What can you change?

[Panthr]

Wow, I guess I needed to hear that. Obviously the rings have no meaning to her whatsoever. I guess I saw security in them because its an outward sign. Yes, I'll stop obsessing over this. I realize the problems and great and they are many.

Great point about the fact that we are getting along --part of me always wants to believe that when she gets like that its a postive sign and she is having second thoughts even for a second. So, I'm not sure if I understand the point of "continuing to being her friend things will continue".

I'd like to think I've done a lot to change....I workout, lost weight, make sure I'm impeccabley groomed all of the time, have been going out more with friends, and even silly things like drinking a beer at home, amongst other things. As silly as it sounds, I've even made myself LESS useful around the house.I've never said "look at me, look at what I'm doing for us, see I've changed!" 've allowed her to noticer the changes which I think she has because she mentioned during our last blowup. There are some things I'm doing that she doesn't even ened to know --I've committed to a Tough Mudder race in Aug but haven't mentiond to her becaue its not about her.

I've been a steady, calm , in control person. a true 180 would be to play the game and take off my ring and become a yeller. ;-)

I don't pursue physcially, beg, plead. I don't ask. I can honestly say I haven't shed a tear in front of her. I've been on with your rules and I guess that is what makes it frustrating. When we do speak --- I do try talk to her like she's a friendly neighbor.

[Panthr]

Just an update and some thoughts.....

This week was somewhat normalized. She told me on Monday that she was staying over her mother's house that night because she had an early dentist appointment the next morning and it was close. I made sure I didn't stress over it and whether she stayed there or not. That Tuesday she more helpful with kids and more engaging, which I was happy to see --this has not been the norm since September. The next few days were pretty much the same. We got along --not much interaction though. A few comments here and there . Things got a little weird on Thursday.

This was the days that she was going out with her girlfriends to dinner. So, I got the boys ready for daycare and dropped them off. My car's inspection was up and decided at that moment to call off work and take my car into the garage. As I was in the waiting room, killing time, I noticed it was my godfather's anniversary's and an uncle's birthday, so I acknowledged both that morning. Well, soon there after I get a text from W asking "Why are you at home?" I figured that she knows because FB includes where you commented from. I texted back I was at garage getting car inspected. She texts back "really?, I thought your friends were going to take you while at work". My first instinct was to text back "Really", but I didn't I just said "Yes, couldn't coordinate with friends" I wasn't going to be sucked into her dysfunctional. Anyways, I didn't hear from her after that --I spent the whole morning at the bookstore reading DR while waiting for car to be done. The boys and I had a great time going out to eat and then at the library, bath, snacks, and bed. She didn't come back until after 10pm, (She posted on fb thanking her friends for evening, so she spent at least part of the day with them) noticeably drunk and went to bed in spare bedroom after she came in master BR where kids crashed with me. She didn't say anything to me this morning.

Here are my questions.....

***Why would she feel the need to ask me why I wasn't at home and then not believe my response. I didn't ask her where she was on Monday (she was off the whole day), I didn't ask her about her plans last night. Is it a control thing? Is there a sense of jealousy?

***I know this sounds petty and I guess I'm trying to play amateur psychologist,( think there is much going on than WAW with her) but what is her motivation to comment on some of my friends and family's posts? If you want to check out , check out then.

As for more GAL ......I 'll text her later on that I will be going to happy hour after work and that I have plans tomorrow evening (Sat). More than likely, I won't be going out to a bar but I will make arrangements to check out a movie or visit my friends. I also am taking S5 to a birthday party --yes because I love spending time with him, but also because it keeps the W away from the gaggle of divorcee and separated women that are so rampant in the suburbs here. :-)

[sandi2]

***Why would she feel the need to ask me why I wasn't at home and then not believe my response. I didn't ask her where she was on Monday (she was off the whole day), I didn't ask her about her plans last night. Is it a control thing? Is there a sense of jealousy?

***I know this sounds petty and I guess I'm trying to play amateur psychologist,( think there is much going on than WAW with her) but what is her motivation to comment on some of my friends and family's posts? If you want to check out , check out then.

Who knows? Some want their independence from the M, but they want to keep tabs on what the LBH is doing. Some want to catch him in doing something wrong so she will feel more justified in her wanting to end the M. And yes, strange as it sounds, some are jealous.

It is not that uncommon for some WAW's to keep in touch with family and friends of the LBH. Maybe she doesn't want them to think badly of her.... .....or question what she imagines you may have told them. The reasons could vary with the woman.