T0324 continued part 4

[25yearsmlc]

Unfortunately, there isn't a rule book that tells you how to handle each interaction. You just have to find what you can live with until one of you is ready to make a decision. Truthfully, this needs to be about you finding your own happiness regardless of what choices your H makes.

Please take this^^^^ in

I can't tell you what to do, but I can share some things that were successful for me. H and I never separated. We stayed in the same house and same bed through the entire crisis period. It was hard , but not impossible. The following list are the things I think made the biggest impact:

- If H stayed out late, I was in bed before he got home. I didn't text asking where he was or when he'd be home. I pretended I didn't care even if I secretly cried when he wasn't around.

- If he slept in or didn't come home, I'd take our son to breakfast or a park so I wasn't waiting on him. Almost always he would call to see where his family was so he could join us.

Similar experiences ^^^. The paradox became that it really did NOT matter to me if h was there. I have no idea if that showed, but the point is, I did not attach MY happiness or mood or "the whole day" on whether he did or said anything.

Eventually h wanted to be included more, but HE had to show up.

MY happiness is and always has been, MY responsibility.

- I didn't initiate ILY or kisses. I would reciprocate if he did. That does not mean I ignored him, I just would be cheerful and leave when we were parting without waiting for him to initiate it either. This helped me avoid the awakard is he or isn't he going to moment. Same with ending phone conversations.

- when H told me about something he was frustrated with at work or with me, I'd validate what he said but give no opinion or solution. Simply say "that sounds really frustrating" or " I'm sorry you feel that way"

^^^validation is Not agreement. It's "I hear you", not "I agree with"...but it matters

T, I know this is really hard and I truly feel for what you are going through. You can do this!! I think 30 days is a great goal. Reevaluate how you feel then. Not everything has to be decided today.

amen

[TenBook]

TO,

Speaking only to my situation, as a man who has said that very phrase, it's not you it's my job/money, I was outright lying. I was angry about our R and rather than confronting it, I choose to give the Job/Money avoidance answer.

[T384]

Thanks Vasapro - not sure what I think or if I believe anything good or bad

[cat04]

Mach- pretty much your last paragraph describes H to a T. That's exactly how he feels, never good enough, etc. I don't want to be that nag either. I want to be fun and have fun and I try to. Then he is always miserable and it in turn really makes my attitude annoyed with him because he's so damn miserable and unhappy.

Vicious circle isn't it?

Maybe try not reacting to his acting "miserable." Just go about your day without letting his mood affect yours.

I struggle finding a balance because at some point we have to be responsible and discuss logistics. I feel i can't vring up things that upset him because of his reaction and how it will make him upset and pull away more. But things (responsibilities, bills, kids, logistics) have to be discussed

Have you never made a decision regarding kids, payed bills, whatever without talking about it?

Right now, maybe these things don't need to be discussed as much as you believe talking about them means you are both "in" the marriage.

It seems when I'm quiet and distance myself it's easier for him to act out

Are you his mother or his W?

TO,

You have had quite a stressful few days. While I am sorry for that, I can see that you have perpetuated quite a bit of it.

I have seen talk here about MLC and mental illness, Mach even gave you his view of MLC, which is one that I happen to agree with. I don’t doubt that your H has some confusion and whatnot going on and he may even be depressed. I can also see how you are contributing to the situation instead of helping it.

Which in turn is working in direct conflict with the goal that you repeatedly say that you want which is a happy marriage with your H.

I am willing to bet right now that the thing that is pissing you off the most is a result of this…

My H came back and chose to come back, crying begging and pleading. He was everything I needed him to be - an open boom, daily texts, loving behavior, tons of physical touch, such open communicAtion about what was going on in his life and the decisions he was making. Then slowly it stops.

He came home. You deemed to give him a second chance. And he is throwing it in your face. Instead of being different forever.

Yes he was everything YOU needed.

Tell me what YOU were for him? Did you suddenly become the loving, doting, understanding W? Did you become the porn queen in the bedroom that most men seem to want? Did you reciprocate to him by meeting his needs or were you just happy that yours were being met?

The road goes both ways.

You nagged him about money that was owed to you that you wanted him to recover. He responded to you and you couldn’t accept his answer at the time so you kept asking (maybe not often in your mind, but I have learned that men don’t appreciate revisiting something they believe they have answered.)

It's hard to move forward from the past when someone acts this way.

No it isn’t. YOUR happiness is not dependent on HIS actions. If you want to move forward from the past, you move forward from it. Period. You change your behavior, your reactions, your actions, and sometimes your beliefs. It isn’t always easy. Believe me, I still have triggers from many many years ago that come knocking on my door once in a while. It happens. It is part of life.


You were called controlling earlier in this thread by another poster and ironically you say your H called you controlling when you confronted him about the car.

Congratulating your H about his purchase, then chastising the way he went about it (ie…I wish you would have let me know…why? So you could text no and argue and he would give in to you and not get the car he wanted?)
Followed up by…

I also told H enough with the games. Just be honest and say what you want. I am not going to fight about it. If it's divorce so be it.

I didn't get a response.

You are lucky. Many people would have walked. I probably would have.

My way of fixing it is the only way I know. I have a notepad on my phone with a bunch of issues I have with myself and with my R with H that I am keeping tabs on so I can bring it up in IC.

So maybe it is time to learn a new way to fix it. Sometimes, simply letting go is the fix.

Get rid of the list with regards to your H. It is scorekeeping. If the issues are big enough to really affect your R, you will remember them.

I don't know what his issues are with the M because he doesn't even know. He couldn't even answer that to the C. According to him he has no issues with me he's just stressed and depressed about his job and finances.

If I don't know what he's thinkig or feeling then how do I fix it. I am not a mind reader.

You are right you are not a mind reader, however you sure spend a lot of time trying to be.

Google controlling behavior. See what comes up. See what sounds familiar.

I could point it out to you but that would be me doing the work for you.

I know I probably seem like I’m picking on you.

I am a little bit.

You have been given a chance that most people here only dream of getting.

You see how you have been wronged, how you were the victim, and those beliefs were encouraged in previous threads. I am sorry that happened.

It’s time to stop being the victim. Time to stop feeling like your H owes you something.

Db or not. That is up to you.

One thing I can promise you is that you are never going to talk your way out of something you acted your way into.

[T384]

Cat I will touch more on everything in a bit but we had sex almost every day, I reciprocated his love and affection.


The list I made is for me ... For bringing up in IC so that I can remmeber some of the things that bother me because a lot of times I forget things easily. H knows of no list and I normally am not a list maker - I don't even make one for groceries

I busted my Ass too when H came back besdies what was portrayed or relayed.

Controlling would be asking H where he was all the time, texting him repeatedly, wanting to know ehere he is when he comes home late every weeknight. I would have made him change his phone number and get on our old phone account so I could Check his records if need be like we both agreed on in MC. Instead he came up with excuses why he couldn't - which ended up being my fault according to him. I asked to be included about the car ... No he doesn't need my permission nor would I say yes or no but to make a large purchase we had discussed in counseling at the C recommendation to talk with each other on purchases over 200.

Everyone welcomed H with open arms. His needs that I know of, from what he had told me, were met. He comes home as he pleases. I do 95% of childcare. I take the kids to school everything g is taken care of including dinner for him when he gets home on the days I'm off. He doesn't do laundry or lift a finger in or outside this house. On the days I work my father watches the boys and takes care of the house while we work. Short of that I don't know what more he wants. I don't even ask for help with the kids anymore because it to me is a waste of time. He sleeps in and doesn't drive our oldest to school like
He used to. If I did ask he would say he needed to get to work so I stopped asking.


The money situation involves H, it's his boss- I just the check signer. He is just as involved in it and told me since October he would take care of it so the last few weeks I have been asking about it since it's been a few months now with no results and we could use the money to complete our bathroom that had to be gutted for the hot water repair.

Am I perfect? Nope.. But H comes and goes as he pleases, does want he wants, is not active in this M unless he needs something. I'm choosing to let it go and do. nothing.


I'm not his mother... His behavior last night was that of a child acting out in a store. I'm
Not talking to you and that's it. He cannot have a conversation when it doesn't yield the results he wants. He has no problem telling me things and expecting
Me to listen (which i do) but whenever the tables are turned one calm sentence is arguing.


You would walk away f someone asked you to stop playing games? Sleeping with your phone In your pocket after you had an affair, coming home late, showing up with a new car after you couldn't even make your half of the house payment?

Was it the right time to ask? No.

His answer of controlling is whenever he hears what he doesn't want to hear. I feel I've been pretty understanding given everything that's gone on during when he came back. I hadn't brought up the affair besides when we wer going to marriage counseling and discussing it with MC

Feel free to pick on me all you want, no problems here

And H does owe me something - his word. He should be just as active in this marriage or at least tell me what he needs from me. When he keeps telling me it's not me and he's jjst stressed and doesn't know its hard to fix. He can't even give the C an answer.

I think I deserve to be told what he needs if he is going to be angry with me for not meeting his needs.

He used to feel I didn't support him in his job. He wanted to start up his own business. I have been telling him
Since octoberwe should sell some things and he should take the money to start it up.

He says no, he doesn't want to. Its like no matter what I can't make him
Happy. I offer something he said he wanted then it's no. It's like he just brings things up to have something to hate me over

[T384]

So in conclusion - I am letting go and doing nothing.

I feel better about it and have re-read sandi's rules. I am by no means perfect and do have a lot of things to own on my own but there are some things I will just have to agree to disagree on. It's easy to read over the Internet and think you know a situation based on what is typed but completely different living it in person. You all only get my POV on this thread so I understand that is difficult as well. There's always three sides so I keep that in mind as well.

I am here to work on myself and am working on letting go and no reacting.

So on that note less typing... more doing nothing.

Thanks everyone for your words of wisdom.

And as always sorry for the scattered responses. I only use my phone so it's hard to keep an entire thought sometimes

[cat04]

TO,

A few things then im going to bed.

Where you are...I was, less one child. I was your age. I had a H who wanted D, until one day he simply didnt. And there was no discussing it. And mine was mean too. Believe me, you dont have that market cornered.

After reconciliation and another bomb years later, I was finally able to see things differently. To see what i could have done differently. So please dont ever think because its the internet that people dont understand.

during your period of doing nothing...seriously google controlling behaviors. What you think they are and what they actually are may surprise you.

and in your reading...start with chapter 12 (in my copy) of his needs, her needs...men need admiration...

i know, sounds like some antiquated idea from the 50's when women were still subserviant....

guess what? Our grandmothers and greatgrandmothers understood this concept...something womens liberation has stolen from us.

[Zues126]

I am not your husband and what I went through isn't the same. But I can tell you how I felt, acted, and how it played out.

In 2011 I went through a MLC. We had just had our 3rd child and I felt just as Mach1 described. I gave up my dreams to give to a woman to have a marriage, and instead of trying to be a wife to me she devoted 100% to being a mom. Classic sweatpants/out of shape/no date nights, etc, etc.

I was more frustrated than I could put in to words. My explanation to my best friend is that I felt like I was single, only I couldn't date other women, had no free time, and had to pay 100% of my income for child support. Pretty raw deal.

When I brought it up to my W it was like she couldn't hear me. The same way you may feel completely dismissed or ignored, that was how I felt from my W. She saw things the way she saw them, and I felt my needs and my wants were treated like a kid wanting to buy every toy at a toy store. "Mom knows what's best".

I felt the MLC come on. I began to get attracted to another woman at work. I was emotionally bankrupt from my M and wanted to leave.

But I KNEW I was going through a MLC, and I KNEW that at some point I'd regret those choices, so I switched positions at work, told her how I was feeling, and tried to enlist her help to improve the problems between us. I had specific things that I told her were making things almost unlivable and wanted to get professional help with her to see if we could find a way to get through it.

I felt like it was talking to a rock. It was very clear that nothing would change. I was completely trapped. Take it or leave it. I couldn't accept leaving it. And I couldn't take it.

It got to the point I was DEFEATED. I pulled way back. It hurt too much to interact with her. I was extremely hurt that she would watch me bleeding and not care. I was resentful that as long as she got the paycheck I provided and the male role model for her kids she wanted she didn't care about what I needed. I was so frustrated the only way I could cope was to retreat into a shell, go to work, do my hobbies, talk to my friends, hang with my kids, and keep walking forward.

We didn't talk for about 6 months. I didn't want to leave my M. What I wanted was my W to realize the severity of the situation. Occasionally this was resentment/punishing behavior, but for the most part it was defeat, I didn't know how to interact with her in a way that didn't leave me absolutely soul crushed.

I knew I had my own issues to work on, but I was stuck there as well. I had read a lot of books, gone to an IC, and journaled a lot about it. Finally I just needed a break. I didn't have an A, I didn't DO anything. I just needed to do my own thing for a while and try to let the pain stop a bit. I really didn't want to leave the M, I was hoping we could work it out at some point, but I just didn't know how. I was still trying to figure it out but hoped at some point she'd do the same.

Instead she dropped the bomb. She said she couldn't live like that anymore, and gave me a WAW speech.

I was heartbroken and angry. Heartbroken because I loved her. Angry because I coped with unbelievable amounts of pain over the last 3 years and continued to stay the course believing we could work it out. If I knew she was going to give up I wish it had been years ago. But she waited until she had the 3 children she wanted, she raised them to the age of 4 and they were starting school, and it was convenient to leave. I feel like she never wanted to be a W, she just needed my sperm, a few years as a home maker, and a lock on the childsupport.

That's fine. Didn't mean to make this about my sitch. But when I hear you talk about your H, I see in him some of the same behavior. Feeling defeated. Like there's no way to make it work. Not wanting to leave, but not seeing a way to win.

You want him to rise up and be a person you can live with. He's wanting you to do the same.

Now, in your situation I'm not saying that's fair. I'm not saying that's right. I'm not suggesting you're not already bending over backwards, or that he doesn't have some serious changes to make. I'm just telling you what I see.

It would be a tragic misunderstanding for you to interpret his pulling back as being uncommitted to an M. As far as I can see, his still BEING there is showing a LOT of commitment to the M. Even at this moment I don't know if I could've done anything differently at the time, but I do believe if my W hadn't walked out we maybe could've found our way through it.

As it is I'm ok. I've looked in the mirror and seen my faults. Some I've changed, some I'll have to manage even though I'm human and will never be perfect. I hope to someday find a woman that is willing to put in the work in an M instead of walking away. If my problems are too much for a woman to handle then I'll keep trying to grow and keep being appreciative of what I do have in my life.

So this spot stinks, and I'm sorry. But I would encourage you to look at the pain YOU'RE going through dealing with this sitch as being as temporary as going through a MLC yourself. It won't always be like this. Trust me, he can't live like this forever either.

So I'd say don't use his behavior or your feelings as a reason to force any life changing decisions. And try to understand what he's feeling that he feels is forcing him to pull back this much. If you say there's no reason for him to do so, in a way that's almost minimizing how he feels. He's obviously suffering and pulling back, you think he likes this? To HIM something's causing enough pain to try to escape the situation.

I agree that the car is pushing your buttons, maybe to get you to diagnose him as MLC so he can tell himself you don't get it and justify behavior he knows is childish. Whatever. It's a car. I don't see it as being as important as an M.

LONG RAMBLING POST BUT LET ME ASK YOU THIS: If you and he could put the whole thing on hold and his heart could talk honestly to yours, do you know what he'd say he needed from you to feel happy in the M? NOW- you already know this part and are doing A/B/C about that so let me ask you the follow up: WHY WOULD HE SAY THAT'S STILL NOT WORKING FOR HIM?

T0, I'm sorry you're there. I wish it was easier. I wish he was stronger. I wish M's were easier. But I also wish my W had asked those questions instead of leaving. I was prepared to give her another 40 years of love if we could've found a way through that. She gave up on me because she felt I was being childish or abusive. No one wins.

Again, I'm not the expert, I'm the one going through a D with my own problems. But if any of my failed M or any of my rambling does anything for you please take it. If not I hope you know I'm not judging or blaming. Just hoping you can do better than me and my STBX did.

[T384]

Zues -

Thank you for sharing your story and don't feel like its a hijack. It is helpful former to have a male perspective as well. I know that my H feels the way you describe. I just don't know how to fix it. I do appreciate him. I have told him more so than ever since R because I specifically remember Woundedfool telling me during S to use the word appreciate so he hears it.

I need/want him to step up and be the man. Do you think I like asking about the money from his boss? Absolutely not. I wish he would take care of it and I didn't have to get involved. But he hasn't so I felt I needed to step in especially since he's talking of leaving the place. But trust me I do not want to be the man in the R I want my H to take charge. I am fine with that. I don't want all the responsibility I don't want to nag him or have to ask him to take care of things. Before he used to say he wanted to help with the bills because he felt I controlled all the bills. So he took over a few ... We had late payments on every single one. Sorry I'm blabbering. My point is I would
Be so happy if he told me what he needed but I dont. I know there are things I can fix as Cat has pointed out but in the longterm I want to know what he needs from me to be happy.

I do want him to be happy. I want him to look forward to coming home. I don't want him to have to be stressed or depressed all the time. I wish he could talk to me before he got into such a deep place.

I have commited to doing nothing but sometimes I fear that H will take it as me giving up on him.

Thank you ... I hope for the best for you. These things change everyday.

[Mach1]

I know that my H feels the way you describe. I just don't know how to fix it. I do appreciate him. I have told him more so than ever since R because I specifically remember Woundedfool telling me during S to use the word appreciate so he hears it.

It is NOT your job, to "fix" it...

And I can assure you, that you, just "telling" him that you appreciate him, means very little to him right now. Because your ACTIONS, do not say that to him...

I need/want him to step up and be the man.

No, I don't think that you do.

I think that you want him to "step up" and be the man that YOU tell him to be....not the man that HE needs to be, for himself...

And as long as you keep arguing that point with him, you are doing more damage than you are good.

Do you think I like asking about the money from his boss? Absolutely not. I wish he would take care of it and I didn't have to get involved. But he hasn't so I felt I needed to step in especially since he's talking of leaving the place.

Still, YOUR fix, for his problem.

But trust me I do not want to be the man in the R I want my H to take charge. I am fine with that. I don't want all the responsibility I don't want to nag him or have to ask him to take care of things. Before he used to say he wanted to help with the bills because he felt I controlled all the bills. So he took over a few ... We had late payments on every single one. Sorry I'm blabbering.

Anytime, someone tells me to "trust" them, it sends up some red flags for me.

So, I "trust" , that although you don't want to be the Man, or know how to be the Man. You can still find the time to tell him how to be the man....

My point is I would Be so happy if he told me what he needed but I dont. I know there are things I can fix as Cat has pointed out but in the longterm I want to know what he needs from me to be happy.

He has told you what he needs, it just doesn't "fit" with your version of how he should be the "man"

I do want him to be happy. I want him to look forward to coming home. I don't want him to have to be stressed or depressed all the time. I wish he could talk to me before he got into such a deep place.

My guess is, that he DID tell you, and you weren't interested in listening, because it didn't jive with what you wanted to hear...

I have commited to doing nothing but sometimes I fear that H will take it as me giving up on him.

It's not about doing nothing, and I haven't read here that anyone told you to "do nothing".

What I HAVE seen, is that you are more willing to defend your stance, that you don't really ever hear what he has to say at all.

And before you tell me that I am wrong, you have done that with anyone that goes against you here, with strangers, that you don't know, and aren't overly comfortable with.

So I can't imagine how that could lessen any, with him, the person that you are very comfortable with.

So maybe, instead of your do nothing mantra...

Maybe you should just think about achieving some goals for the week...

STFU-Understand that no matter how hard you think that you can, you will never understand him until you can "hear" what he is saying. And you can't really hear him, as long as you are talking, and thinking of your next defense, while he is speaking.

Make a list- Instead of making a list of wrongs, make a list of things that YOU can do differently, and a list of what is working.

Communication styles- Understand how you communicate, and where your styles clash. Would you describe yourself as an extrovert ? Is he also an extrovert, or an introvert ? Two very different styles there, and they communicate very differently.

So yea, not "do nothing"....

Do what works instead...



Also, you are gonna need a new thread...this one is gonna lock soon...

New threads typically indicate new growth, and I hope that is the case for you...